Online Fantasy Championship

KOTRAX · Post by **KOTRAX** » Tue May 20, 2008 2:59 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Mike Costaglio:
With the addition of NBC and FFPC this year I wonder (given the economic conditions)how many different events can be supported? I also wonder with all of the online choices being offered by the big four if it will be difficult to fill the live main events. It's a good question Mike, which is why I'm glad we have a big promotional partner to generate new members to our contests. We're not trying to monetize customers from other contests, we're trying to introduce this area of the market to new players. I'd hate to be in this space right now without the promotional might to reach hundreds of thousands of potential new players and to reach potential sponsors, who can add much more to the overall contests. We are working on title sponsors for our events right now and we think that's an area that wasn't possible before we added NBC Sports and Rotoworld.com.

"Big four"?? I'm not sure who the big four is, but I know we're doing all we can right now to have a successful season with the contests we're offering and we're only concentrating on what we can do. Everyone else has their own marketing plans and I wish them all good luck. [/QUOTE]YEAH IT IS GOING TO INTERESTING TO SEE HOW EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO HIT THEIR NUMBERS IN THEIR MAIN EVENTS.

I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE EITHER OR. MEANING THAT THE MORE PEOPLE WHO PLAY IN MAIN EVENTS THAT IS GOING TO LOWER THEIR FUNDS TO PLAY IN SATELLITE LEAGUES.

OR IF THEY CHOOSE ONLINE OPTIONS THEY ARE GOING TO BE LESS PEOPLE PLAYING IN MAIN EVENTS.

LIKE GREG SAID I HOPE ALL OF THE BIG FOUR HIT THEIR NUMBERS AND ARE SUCCESSFUL SO IT WILL ALLOW MORE FUN FOR US THE CUSTOMERS.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:09 am

The only thing taking a hit, in my opinion, would be the satellite leagues. If I have the choice of playing a $250 satellite to win $2000, or a $250 satellite, with the opportunity to win $20000, I'm pretty sure I'd pick the $20000 100% of the time.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:28 am

Originally posted by Raiders:
"Big four"?? I'm not sure who the big four is, but I know we're doing all we can right now to have a successful season with the contests we're offering and we're only concentrating on what we can do. Everyone else has their own marketing plans and I wish them all good luck.

Greg the "Big four"?? NBC,NFFC,WCOFF and FFPC. You have two of the "Big four" not bad. Greg, Mike Costaglio spotted you the 'C' and the 'T', it wasn't that hard.

Well, let's just say it would be a tough year to start from scratch with any event and there's no fewer than four new startups in this space right now. You haven't even heard of two others and they will start advertising soon. I feel comfortable knowing that we already have an existing customer base to draw from and an existing die-hard base who will likely do a combination of our offerings. That's a good starting point to add to the big advertising campaign we have planned on Rotoworld.com and the NBC sites. Again, we're after new customers for both of our events and I think we'll reach our goals.

I wish everyone good luck, but the WCOFF has had challengers every year to their weekend in Las Vegas and the list is long of those who didn't survive. Now they are offering more and more and folks still think it makes sense to compete with them. I wish everyone best of luck, but I like what Jesse and Dustin are doing and I think they will be successful again. We'll stay with our success the week before them and grow participation on that date going forward. I think we'll both continue to grow.

Again, everyone has the choices in front of them this year. The consumer is king this year. Those of us in this space need to provide the right offerings at the right prices and provide the right games with the right customer service. If we do that, we'll be part of the "big three" or whatever number is left at the end.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:37 am

Originally posted by Diesel:
The only thing taking a hit, in my opinion, would be the satellite leagues. If I have the choice of playing a $250 satellite to win $2000, or a $250 satellite, with the opportunity to win $20000, I'm pretty sure I'd pick the $20000 100% of the time. Grow the customer base. Grow the customer base. Grow the customer base.

Marc, think about how far this area of the industry has grown in seven short years. In 2002 when Lenny and Emil first advertised about the WCOFF, the idea of a contest getting 600 participants to Las Vegas for a live event at $1,250 each seemed ABSURD. When I walked in that room with 552 teams, it was amazing. The next year they topped out at 600 teams and everyone felt like that was the level for this market, and it was a good level.

Well, we started the NFFC in 2004 and added 224 teams, WCOFF grew to 660 teams and even Kahuna held a live draft with 70 or so teams. Last year, WCOFF had 900 teams and we had 364 and both companies had expanded their online offerings, auction leagues, Ultimate Leagues and more. I would assume the total revenue generated in this space has gone up by more than 300% since 2002.

So why is last year's level the top end? It is if we expect the same amount of people to compete this year with all of the companies. But again, the goal is to grow the customer base. I know we've grown with new customers thanks to our satellite league offerings and that should continue in the future. We'll see if people switch their choices this year, but nobody wins if we don't get more new players into this space. And I think it can happen if the companies in this space market properly.

Look at the WCOFF and NFFC winners from last year. Both were first-time players in our events. Neither likely even heard about the NFFC or WCOFF five years ago. Yet both won the grand prizes. This year's champions may also be first-time players, if we both market our contests properly and GROW this space. Nobody wins if just the same customers return this year.

I sure hope folks see that. That's where the big picture is here.

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:45 am

Greg,

two others and they will start advertising soon.
Your saying besides FFPC, there are two new startup High Stake Fantasy Football Leagues for this Year? WOW.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:52 am

Originally posted by Raiders:
Greg,

two others and they will start advertising soon.
Your saying besides FFPC, there are two new startup High Stake Fantasy Football Leagues for this Year? WOW. Yes, I've received e-mails from one and the other is in our first football issue. I assume both will be advertising in other publications, too. I would assume everyone who is starting out from scratch this year will have to advertise heavily this year to get the word out and convince folks why they should play in their events this year.

Again, I like our promotional vehicles for this season. We added eight pages to our first issue of Fantasy Sports Magazine so that we could add eight pages of editorial coverage on our NBC Sports event and our ads, without compromising any of our rankings and ratings. We are custom publishing four other titles and will have plenty of ads in there as well. We have a great online ad and editorial campaign planned for Rotoworld.com and NBC Sports.com. And with any luck, we'll make many of our players stars on those sites. Stay tuned.

It's all good, but it's going to be wild this year and just like in past years, not everyone will fulfill their promises. It happens every year. The out is to cancel the event.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:05 am

It's all hypotheticals now...Once everything is official, and we can all assess the events that are officially being offered, we'll know exactly what's going on. Too many of us are so hooked on fantasy football, that we expect to see the events announced in APRIL...And it seems that is out of the question from a business standpoint.

I wish the best of luck to all events, so that the entire industry flourishes, but I take the remark that a new player may win this event again personally!

This is my 5th year here. It's my time damn it!

[ May 20, 2008, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Diesel ]

KOTRAX · Post by **KOTRAX** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:18 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Raiders:
Greg,

two others and they will start advertising soon.
Your saying besides FFPC, there are two new startup High Stake Fantasy Football Leagues for this Year? WOW. Yes, I've received e-mails from one and the other is in our first football issue. I assume both will be advertising in other publications, too. I would assume everyone who is starting out from scratch this year will have to advertise heavily this year to get the word out and convince folks why they should play in their events this year.

Again, I like our promotional vehicles for this season. We added eight pages to our first issue of Fantasy Sports Magazine so that we could add eight pages of editorial coverage on our NBC Sports event and our ads, without compromising any of our rankings and ratings. We are custom publishing four other titles and will have plenty of ads in there as well. We have a great online ad and editorial campaign planned for Rotoworld.com and NBC Sports.com. And with any luck, we'll make many of our players stars on those sites. Stay tuned.

It's all good, but it's going to be wild this year and just like in past years, not everyone will fulfill their promises. It happens every year. The out is to cancel the event. [/QUOTE]WOW THAT IS AMAZING EVEN TWO MORE COMPANIES COMING HIGH-STAKES EVENTS.

I KNOW THIS IS A FREE-MARKET COUNTRY AND EVERYONE WANTS TO GET THERE SHARE OF THE PIE.

HOWEVER IN MY OPINION 3 (TECHNICALLY 4 WITH NBC) OPTIONS IS ENOUGH FOR HIGH-STAKES PLAYERS.

YOU DON'T WANT TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE YOU SATURATE THE MARKET.

I KNOW GREG AS DO I WANT EVERYONE TO SUCEED BUT THERE ONLY:

1) X AMOUNT OF HIGH- STAKES FANTASY FOOTBALL PLAYERS OUT THERE
2) OF THOSE ONES WHO HAVE THE MONEY TO SUPPORT THEM.

THE MORE CHOICES THAT ARE OUT THERE YES IT GREAT FOR US CUSTOMERS TO BE ABLE TO CHOOSE BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE GROW FRIENDSHIPS WITH THE PEOPLE WHO RUN GAMES. (GREG, TOM, JESSE, DUSTIN, LOU, ALEX, DAVE ETC)

NOW WE ARE PUT IN POSITION TO MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS WHICH IS GOOD AND BAD ESPECIALLY DURING THESE TIMES.

IF THE FAN BASE GROWS GREAT!! BUT IF NOT WE ALL HAVE TO LOOK REALITY IN THE MIRROR I HOPE NOT BUT SOMEONE IS GOING TO LOSE.

[ May 20, 2008, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: KOTRAX ]

RiFF · Post by **RiFF** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:41 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
[It's all good, but it's going to be wild this year and just like in past years, not everyone will fulfill their promises. It happens every year. The out is to cancel the event. After reading through this, I'm not sure if there are 4 new high stake contesta in addition to WCOFF, NFFC, NBC and FFCP (whoever they are) OR if the four new contests include NBC and FFCP. Regardless, there were ONLY 2 high stakes contests last year and this year it appears that will be at least 6. I would assume each of the 4 new "high stakes" contests will need at least 150 participants. I know Greg is expecting well over double the 150 for the NBC contest.
If WCOFF started in 2002 with 550 contestants and last year WCOFF and NFFC combined had around 1264 contestants; it took 5 years for the "FF high stakes" arena to attract an additional 714 contestants; or an average of 142 additional contestants per year.
If there are 4 new high stakes contests this year and they each need at least 150 contestants something doesn't seem to add up. Also I suspect both WCOFF and NFFC anticipate growing their contests again this year. Either a couple or 3 of those new contests don't get off the ground and cancel their event OR worse yet these contests go forward with a losing proposition and contestants end up in a similar situation that's playing out this year at AFFL.
It will be great for the players if ALL these contests succeed thereby generating more competition among providers and bringing additional exposure to the industry (hopefully good!!); but in a crappy economy with the poor visibility brought on by AFFL it seems unlikely all these new providers will succeed.
The old adage...BUYER BEWARE... seems tantamount here.
All this to a marketplace that already has establiched on line providers like Fantasy Jungle and Antsports. Whew...someone is going to get burnt. (possibly many someones)!!

KOTRAX · Post by **KOTRAX** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:34 am

TO EXPAND ON WHAT RICHARD STATED IT'S KIND OF LIKE WHEN YOU COLLECTED BASEBALL/FOOTBALL CARDS.

WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT THERE WAS ONLY TOPPS.

ONE ROOKIE CARD PER PLAYER, PER YEAR THATS IT.

THEN COMES ALONG PROSET AND SCORE (AT LEAST IN FOOTBALL)

O.K. NOW YOU HAVE THREE ROOKIE CARDS FOR PLAYERS.

STILL NOT TO BAD, THEN HERE COMES FLEER, ACTION PACKED AND UPPER DECK ALONG WITH OTHER CARD COMPAINES.

NOW WHAT HAPPENS? THE MARKET IS FLOODED AND CARDS ARE NOT REALLY WORTH ANYTHING.

I KNOW THAT EXAMPLE IS AN ABSTRACT ONE BUT I JUST HOPE WE DON'T GET TOO MANY HIGH-STAKES PROVIDERS AS THE WCOFF, NFFC AND WHAT I CAN SEE THE FFPC OFFER US MORE THAN ENOUGH ACTION.