Yeah Losman sticks! The amazing thing is our weak WR's have had some solid games, but we sat Moulds in week 1 when he scored 18, then we sat Braylon the next 2 weeks when he went off against Balt and someone else! We then started Shockey over Deuce when he had 1 catch and Deuce scored I believe 15 in week 2. We then sat Shockey on his 2 TD game, so leaving points on our bench is becoming our specialty. Last year we whined at having no depth and now we are killing ourself due to have some depth.
No snow yet, but we have seen rain. Where in SoCal you at? We were at the happiest place on earth two weeks ago and visited my brother who lives in Yucaipa(Riverside)
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
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King of Queens
- Posts: 5262
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
"Moving the deadline back would have been fair to all.
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter."
Moving the deadline would have breached the contract.
The computer error is covered in the contract...manipulating things after the fact is not covered.
Allowing some owners to have the chance to re-enter bids after their opponents see their bids...and not others...(fat chance of even contacting 40% of the league in the time sensitive gap they were working in to stay under the FRI 8pm est contract rule)...is not a better solution.
~Lance I'll ask you the same questions I asked Nag. If there truly was legal advice given on this situation, then:
(1) why were there conflicting e-mails sent yesterday afternoon, the first saying to reset your picks, the second saying that the 8 a.m. picks would stand?
(2) why did Emil put up a poll, asking for everyone to vote?
(3) why did Emil state that [paraphrasing] the poll results were close, so they were just going to leave the 8 a.m. bids alone?
Are you suggesting that Emil had no idea that Lenny had consulted an attorney, and was just responding to the situation on his own?
"Moving the deadline back would have been fair to all.
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter."
Moving the deadline would have breached the contract.
The computer error is covered in the contract...manipulating things after the fact is not covered.
Allowing some owners to have the chance to re-enter bids after their opponents see their bids...and not others...(fat chance of even contacting 40% of the league in the time sensitive gap they were working in to stay under the FRI 8pm est contract rule)...is not a better solution.
~Lance I'll ask you the same questions I asked Nag. If there truly was legal advice given on this situation, then:
(1) why were there conflicting e-mails sent yesterday afternoon, the first saying to reset your picks, the second saying that the 8 a.m. picks would stand?
(2) why did Emil put up a poll, asking for everyone to vote?
(3) why did Emil state that [paraphrasing] the poll results were close, so they were just going to leave the 8 a.m. bids alone?
Are you suggesting that Emil had no idea that Lenny had consulted an attorney, and was just responding to the situation on his own?
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Originally posted by Hard heads:
No TO this year Baby! LOL We drafted 12th and had no chance at him really. We got CJ, ocho cinqo, mohawk bust, whatever you call him along with Parker, Gore and Gates and Deuce and Shockey, but Evans, Braylon and Moulds as are 2 and 3 WR options they have just killed us. We were part of the foolish crew that though AZ would keep Rackers value high, but between him missing anything over 45 yards and there ineptness he was a bust as well. We do have a shot and currently are tied for 2nd, but 4th in points, so it will be tough. We are down like 80 points from 2nd since the guy at 7-1 is also like 150 points ahead of 2nd.
Last year was fun and losing TO made it tough, but Chambers really made up for BO! Hope you can make up the ground and get in the LCG cause anything can happen from their!
Yeah I have done alot of holding back after Lenny's one reply to all my posts(deleted)figuring he would ignore or block me. Sucks to have shelled out all that money to be treated this way along with all the others that got the shaft as well.
So which podcast do you do? I was glcncing at some of them while my son sleeps. Looks like a solid site. I am a pround #85 owner too! Glad he shaved off the golden mohawk this week...the tide will turn for him!
My favorite Lenny reply was when he used the NFL referees as an analogy as to why he deleted posts and threads. Saying something like the NFL doesn't let it's players or coaches criticize the officials because it would kill the moral of the officials (who make mistakes)...HUH? Yes, the statement is true, but the "player and coaches" are employees of the NFL. Tom Brady doesn't pay them millions of dollars to play football...they pay him. On the other hand, WCOFFers pay to play fantasy football, kinda like "customers". Yet not treated like customers under certain circumstances. Too bad, I really like the Emil and the WCOFF, but certainly don't like how threads are deleted or how yesterday's events were handled.
Anyway, you can get our podcasts thru our website (below) or ITunes or ODEO...Fantasy Freakin Football. Next week's show should be pretty good with lots happening in the fantasy world!
No TO this year Baby! LOL We drafted 12th and had no chance at him really. We got CJ, ocho cinqo, mohawk bust, whatever you call him along with Parker, Gore and Gates and Deuce and Shockey, but Evans, Braylon and Moulds as are 2 and 3 WR options they have just killed us. We were part of the foolish crew that though AZ would keep Rackers value high, but between him missing anything over 45 yards and there ineptness he was a bust as well. We do have a shot and currently are tied for 2nd, but 4th in points, so it will be tough. We are down like 80 points from 2nd since the guy at 7-1 is also like 150 points ahead of 2nd.
Last year was fun and losing TO made it tough, but Chambers really made up for BO! Hope you can make up the ground and get in the LCG cause anything can happen from their!
Yeah I have done alot of holding back after Lenny's one reply to all my posts(deleted)figuring he would ignore or block me. Sucks to have shelled out all that money to be treated this way along with all the others that got the shaft as well.
So which podcast do you do? I was glcncing at some of them while my son sleeps. Looks like a solid site. I am a pround #85 owner too! Glad he shaved off the golden mohawk this week...the tide will turn for him!
My favorite Lenny reply was when he used the NFL referees as an analogy as to why he deleted posts and threads. Saying something like the NFL doesn't let it's players or coaches criticize the officials because it would kill the moral of the officials (who make mistakes)...HUH? Yes, the statement is true, but the "player and coaches" are employees of the NFL. Tom Brady doesn't pay them millions of dollars to play football...they pay him. On the other hand, WCOFFers pay to play fantasy football, kinda like "customers". Yet not treated like customers under certain circumstances. Too bad, I really like the Emil and the WCOFF, but certainly don't like how threads are deleted or how yesterday's events were handled.
Anyway, you can get our podcasts thru our website (below) or ITunes or ODEO...Fantasy Freakin Football. Next week's show should be pretty good with lots happening in the fantasy world!
@RedRyder
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Originally posted by Hard heads:
Yeah Losman sticks! The amazing thing is our weak WR's have had some solid games, but we sat Moulds in week 1 when he scored 18, then we sat Braylon the next 2 weeks when he went off against Balt and someone else! We then started Shockey over Deuce when he had 1 catch and Deuce scored I believe 15 in week 2. We then sat Shockey on his 2 TD game, so leaving points on our bench is becoming our specialty. Last year we whined at having no depth and now we are killing ourself due to have some depth.
No snow yet, but we have seen rain. Where in SoCal you at? We were at the happiest place on earth two weeks ago and visited my brother who lives in Yucaipa(Riverside) It really does suck leaving points on the bench! In my case it is killing our league too, as we are #6 overall...it would be nice to get that $1000 each for best league.
I am in Silver Lake, which is kinda between downtown and Hollywood. I love the happiest place on Earth!
We should grab a cold frosty one next time I'm up visiting my folks (who live in Sparks)...
Yeah Losman sticks! The amazing thing is our weak WR's have had some solid games, but we sat Moulds in week 1 when he scored 18, then we sat Braylon the next 2 weeks when he went off against Balt and someone else! We then started Shockey over Deuce when he had 1 catch and Deuce scored I believe 15 in week 2. We then sat Shockey on his 2 TD game, so leaving points on our bench is becoming our specialty. Last year we whined at having no depth and now we are killing ourself due to have some depth.
No snow yet, but we have seen rain. Where in SoCal you at? We were at the happiest place on earth two weeks ago and visited my brother who lives in Yucaipa(Riverside) It really does suck leaving points on the bench! In my case it is killing our league too, as we are #6 overall...it would be nice to get that $1000 each for best league.
I am in Silver Lake, which is kinda between downtown and Hollywood. I love the happiest place on Earth!
We should grab a cold frosty one next time I'm up visiting my folks (who live in Sparks)...
@RedRyder
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Hard heads
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Sounds great! I thought I remembered someone who had ties to my neck of the woods being in 53 last year, just had forgotten who it was. Maybe you can give me some good advice on how to win consistently since you seem to do alright?
Great to talk to you again! I hope we can get into the championship round. Sounds like you have better odds, but there is still fight left in this Hard Head!
Great to talk to you again! I hope we can get into the championship round. Sounds like you have better odds, but there is still fight left in this Hard Head!
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
I'll give you a shout next time I am going up there, it will be good to catch up and talk some football...hopefully we'll being talking about our big comebacks in the WCOFF!!
@RedRyder
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Hard heads
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Sounds great!
My e-mail is [email protected], or send me a PM and let me know. My treat on the spirits!
My e-mail is [email protected], or send me a PM and let me know. My treat on the spirits!
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Sound Advice
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Here's a basic suggestion that I think 100% would find an acceptable starting point. Greg or Tom would not have to be told this:
1) APOLOGIZE.
That's a grand idea I haven't heard mentioned.
I did read it all yesterday and here is what I remember:
"Sorry, I was out of the office."
It's hard to tell wether a person is truely sorry for the problem occurring, or just sorry they were out of the office.
Didn't exactly bring me to tears, "That's OK, I love you man!"
1) APOLOGIZE.
That's a grand idea I haven't heard mentioned.
I did read it all yesterday and here is what I remember:
"Sorry, I was out of the office."
It's hard to tell wether a person is truely sorry for the problem occurring, or just sorry they were out of the office.
Didn't exactly bring me to tears, "That's OK, I love you man!"
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sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
"Moving the deadline back would have been fair to all.
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter."
Moving the deadline would have breached the contract.
The computer error is covered in the contract...manipulating things after the fact is not covered.
Allowing some owners to have the chance to re-enter bids after their opponents see their bids...and not others...(fat chance of even contacting 40% of the league in the time sensitive gap they were working in to stay under the FRI 8pm est contract rule)...is not a better solution.
~Lance I'll ask you the same questions I asked Nag. If there truly was legal advice given on this situation, then:
Are you suggesting that Emil had no idea that Lenny had consulted an attorney, and was just responding to the situation on his own? [/QUOTE](1) why were there conflicting e-mails sent yesterday afternoon, the first saying to reset your picks, the second saying that the 8 a.m. picks would stand?
According to my e-mail...you may be misinformed. I only received one e-mail re: this issue...and this turned out to be the way they handled it...
Hi .........,
we had an issue this morning where all bids in your league were processed. All of our servers synch with a time server each night at 4AM, and for some reason the synch caused them all to go to PM this morning. We are looking into why that happened and will make sure it doesn't happen again.
The only solution that we can offer at this point is that all bids that have been run will stand. And we will run another set of bids at the normal time tonight. All player drops that were made this morning will no longer be available for pickup. We greatly apologize for the inconvenience.
Jeremy Smith
(2) why did Emil put up a poll, asking for everyone to vote?
The vote appeared to me to just what it was...a POLL to gauge current customer opinion on this matter...hoping for one or the other option to have a sweeping majority vote. I believe when all was said and done...the contract we signed had precedent in this matter.
(3) why did Emil state that [paraphrasing] the poll results were close, so they were just going to leave the 8 a.m. bids alone?
He saw no lean in the poll results...it was 50-50 damn near. This was part of damage control...getting a feel for the views of what happened and possible solutions. I believe in the end...the 2nd option was not possible after all, once the contract was reviewed.
"Are you suggesting that Emil had no idea that Lenny had consulted an attorney, and was just responding to the situation on his own?"
No...he was simply gauging the mob.
~Lance
[ November 04, 2006, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]
quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
"Moving the deadline back would have been fair to all.
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter."
Moving the deadline would have breached the contract.
The computer error is covered in the contract...manipulating things after the fact is not covered.
Allowing some owners to have the chance to re-enter bids after their opponents see their bids...and not others...(fat chance of even contacting 40% of the league in the time sensitive gap they were working in to stay under the FRI 8pm est contract rule)...is not a better solution.
~Lance I'll ask you the same questions I asked Nag. If there truly was legal advice given on this situation, then:
Are you suggesting that Emil had no idea that Lenny had consulted an attorney, and was just responding to the situation on his own? [/QUOTE](1) why were there conflicting e-mails sent yesterday afternoon, the first saying to reset your picks, the second saying that the 8 a.m. picks would stand?
According to my e-mail...you may be misinformed. I only received one e-mail re: this issue...and this turned out to be the way they handled it...
Hi .........,
we had an issue this morning where all bids in your league were processed. All of our servers synch with a time server each night at 4AM, and for some reason the synch caused them all to go to PM this morning. We are looking into why that happened and will make sure it doesn't happen again.
The only solution that we can offer at this point is that all bids that have been run will stand. And we will run another set of bids at the normal time tonight. All player drops that were made this morning will no longer be available for pickup. We greatly apologize for the inconvenience.
Jeremy Smith
(2) why did Emil put up a poll, asking for everyone to vote?
The vote appeared to me to just what it was...a POLL to gauge current customer opinion on this matter...hoping for one or the other option to have a sweeping majority vote. I believe when all was said and done...the contract we signed had precedent in this matter.
(3) why did Emil state that [paraphrasing] the poll results were close, so they were just going to leave the 8 a.m. bids alone?
He saw no lean in the poll results...it was 50-50 damn near. This was part of damage control...getting a feel for the views of what happened and possible solutions. I believe in the end...the 2nd option was not possible after all, once the contract was reviewed.
"Are you suggesting that Emil had no idea that Lenny had consulted an attorney, and was just responding to the situation on his own?"
No...he was simply gauging the mob.
~Lance
[ November 04, 2006, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Originally posted by Nag':
I have been with WCOFF for 5+ years since from Day 1. I have never publically criticised WCOFF or Lenny and have always given them the benefit of the doubt. I have alwasy trusted the organization to do what is right and what is in the best interest of it's participants. Until yesterday.
I'm also NOT a conspiracy theorist and I like to go off facts and evidence in front of me. But in this case, I believe there was more to the decision than meets the eye. I'm not a lawyer, I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night and I don't have proof of what I am about to say, but I 100% believe this is what happened.
After the Xperts system went crazy and processed bids at 8:00am instead of pm, I don't think it took anyone at the WCOFF office too long to realize how much sh!t they were in. I'm sure they became fully aware that regardless of how the situation was resolved, it was going to case major complains from the customer and that the gravity of this situation could lead to legal exposure. Thus, in my opinion, on the advice of the attoreys, the decision was made to leave the bids as they are and run the 8:00pm bids as usual. Why? Simple - the disclaimer in the WCOFF rules which protects the organization in case of internet or website malfinction, technical problems, etc, etc. In my opinion, and likely in the opinion of the attorneys, the early bidding run clearly fell under the protection of this article in the rules. The legal exposure was limited. Now, if they were to start rolling back the bids, resetting the players and moving the bidding deadline back to Saturday, etc, THIS would in turn put the responsibility and the negligence on the organization. Whatever they did and whomever would then be negatively impacted by THEIR decisions could show that it was the WCOFF decision making was a breach of contract and the responsibility lay with them. Negligence and therefore - responsibility - would then transfer from website's technical malfunction, which was under the protection of the disclaimer TO the WCOFF organization itself. This would be legal exposure which I believe that no attorney would advise to their client.
I basically kept silent throughout most of the craziness on the WCOFF boards and I did not see a reason to post these suspicions there today but I needed to get this off my chest so thanks for listening. I'm not going to trash Lenny or the WCOFF. I believe they made a business decision. I also believe it was a wrong decision in terms of their customers. That's it - case closed, as far as I am concerned. I've got to disagree with you here. Here's the clause in the WCOFF rules that you're referring to:
27. Internet/Technology Problems: If, for any reason, the WCOFF is not capable of running as planned, including infection by computer virus, bugs, tampering, unauthorized intervention, fraud, technical failures or any other causes beyond the control of Fantasy Sports Championships, Inc. which corrupt or affect the administration, security, fairness, integrity or proper conduct of the WCOFF, Fantasy Sports Championships, Inc. reserves the right to modify the rules or suspend the WCOFF. Fantasy Sports Championships, Inc. assumes no responsibility for any error, omissions, interruption, deletion, defect or delay in operation with transmission, communications, line failure, theft, destruction or unauthorized access to the league management website. The rules clearly state that they had a right to modify the rules (by pushing back bid resolution to Saturday and reopening the bids) if a technical failure happens that compromises the fairness and integrity of the event. They did this exact thing earlier this year when the website crashed, by allowing phoned in lineups untill kickoff on Sunday instead of cutting it off 15 minutes prior to kickoff as stated in the rules.
I don't think they did this for legal reasons. Jeremy from Xpert had something posted stating he talked to Lenny and that the bids would stand within an hour of the bidding SNAFU. I don't think that there was time to act on legal advice that quickly.
They simply just ended at the wrong conclusion about what was best for the event.
[ November 04, 2006, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: David Comings ]
I have been with WCOFF for 5+ years since from Day 1. I have never publically criticised WCOFF or Lenny and have always given them the benefit of the doubt. I have alwasy trusted the organization to do what is right and what is in the best interest of it's participants. Until yesterday.
I'm also NOT a conspiracy theorist and I like to go off facts and evidence in front of me. But in this case, I believe there was more to the decision than meets the eye. I'm not a lawyer, I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night and I don't have proof of what I am about to say, but I 100% believe this is what happened.
After the Xperts system went crazy and processed bids at 8:00am instead of pm, I don't think it took anyone at the WCOFF office too long to realize how much sh!t they were in. I'm sure they became fully aware that regardless of how the situation was resolved, it was going to case major complains from the customer and that the gravity of this situation could lead to legal exposure. Thus, in my opinion, on the advice of the attoreys, the decision was made to leave the bids as they are and run the 8:00pm bids as usual. Why? Simple - the disclaimer in the WCOFF rules which protects the organization in case of internet or website malfinction, technical problems, etc, etc. In my opinion, and likely in the opinion of the attorneys, the early bidding run clearly fell under the protection of this article in the rules. The legal exposure was limited. Now, if they were to start rolling back the bids, resetting the players and moving the bidding deadline back to Saturday, etc, THIS would in turn put the responsibility and the negligence on the organization. Whatever they did and whomever would then be negatively impacted by THEIR decisions could show that it was the WCOFF decision making was a breach of contract and the responsibility lay with them. Negligence and therefore - responsibility - would then transfer from website's technical malfunction, which was under the protection of the disclaimer TO the WCOFF organization itself. This would be legal exposure which I believe that no attorney would advise to their client.
I basically kept silent throughout most of the craziness on the WCOFF boards and I did not see a reason to post these suspicions there today but I needed to get this off my chest so thanks for listening. I'm not going to trash Lenny or the WCOFF. I believe they made a business decision. I also believe it was a wrong decision in terms of their customers. That's it - case closed, as far as I am concerned. I've got to disagree with you here. Here's the clause in the WCOFF rules that you're referring to:
27. Internet/Technology Problems: If, for any reason, the WCOFF is not capable of running as planned, including infection by computer virus, bugs, tampering, unauthorized intervention, fraud, technical failures or any other causes beyond the control of Fantasy Sports Championships, Inc. which corrupt or affect the administration, security, fairness, integrity or proper conduct of the WCOFF, Fantasy Sports Championships, Inc. reserves the right to modify the rules or suspend the WCOFF. Fantasy Sports Championships, Inc. assumes no responsibility for any error, omissions, interruption, deletion, defect or delay in operation with transmission, communications, line failure, theft, destruction or unauthorized access to the league management website. The rules clearly state that they had a right to modify the rules (by pushing back bid resolution to Saturday and reopening the bids) if a technical failure happens that compromises the fairness and integrity of the event. They did this exact thing earlier this year when the website crashed, by allowing phoned in lineups untill kickoff on Sunday instead of cutting it off 15 minutes prior to kickoff as stated in the rules.
I don't think they did this for legal reasons. Jeremy from Xpert had something posted stating he talked to Lenny and that the bids would stand within an hour of the bidding SNAFU. I don't think that there was time to act on legal advice that quickly.
They simply just ended at the wrong conclusion about what was best for the event.
[ November 04, 2006, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: David Comings ]