robert meachem

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:51 am

Originally posted by FF Addict:
Greg, the McCardell play was in 2003. Then Lance is right. We did not exist and it was Tom stating the next year that we would try to do it differently. But our rules now are explicit that we give six points to players who get offensive fumble recoveries for TDs and the defense would get credit for the TD in this type of play, just like WCOFF scored it in 2003. I believe they scored it that way, didn't they?

I agree, more language is needed to specify that the defense gets the fantasy points on any double or triple exchange of possession because each team is then defending their goal, even with offensive players doing it.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:52 am

I thought the McCardell play happened during an NFFC season. I apologize if that was incorrect. After awhile, all of the seasons become a blur.

Jim Wiseheart · Post by **Jim Wiseheart** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:08 am

Greg, yes the WCOFF in 2003 gave the points to the defense. I had McCardell on my team. He scored two TD's without it, would have been three. Colts still won 38-35.

[ December 07, 2009, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: FF Addict ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:12 am

Originally posted by FF Addict:
Greg, yes the WCOFF in 2003 gave the points to the defense. I had McCardell on my team. He scored two TD's without it, would have been three. Colts still won 38-35. That's what I thought. I remember that thread well as the WCOFF boards were mandatory reading back then.

Damn, those were heated boards. I trust Lenny scored it according to the letter of his rules just like we are doing today.

Are the WCOFF rules spelled out differently today that they are ruling this for Meacham?

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:16 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by FF Addict:
Greg, yes the WCOFF in 2003 gave the points to the defense. I had McCardell on my team. He scored two TD's without it, would have been three. Colts still won 38-35. That's what I thought. I remember that thread well as the WCOFF boards were mandatory reading back then.

Damn, those were heated boards. I trust Lenny scored it according to the letter of his rules just like we are doing today.

Are the WCOFF rules spelled out differently today that they are ruling this for Meacham? [/QUOTE]Yes, Meachem scores the points now.

Jim Wiseheart · Post by **Jim Wiseheart** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:19 am

Greg, I don't believe it was clearly stated in the WCOFF rules in 2003. I don't play in it anymore, but Jules posted earlier in this thread the WCOFF decision below for Meachem:

"Per the WCOFF Rules the scoring for this play is as follows -

Washington - 2 points for the interception
New Orleans - 2 points for recovering a fumble
Robert Meachem - 6 points for scoring the TD"

This seems contradictory between the 2pt for defense for fumble recovery and 6 points for offensive player for TD.

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:24 am

Now that I'm off the plane and reading the posts since my last one, I'm starting to get agitated here so let me spell this out in plain English. Parts of NFL Rule 3, Section 35 are back on page 2 or 3 that KJ and I pulled from a Footballguys post today concerning this play and the fantasy analysis of it 6 years ago BEFORE THE NFFC. I'm not going to copy it here again but it essentially says in this instance, Robert Meacham started the play as on offensive player, changed to a defensive player when the interception occurred, and reverted back to an offensive player after he took the ball away from Kareem Moore. Therefore, it is an offensive TD with Washington D getting 2 points for the interception, the Saints D getting 2 points for the fumble recovery as Meacham was a defensive player when that occurred, and Meacham gets 6 points for the td because he reverted back to an offensive player after the takeaway and scored the td as an offensive player. This is how the rule reads, like it or not.

Therefore, Greg, no, you don't have a rule giving a defense 6 points for a td scored by an offensive player. So doing this is ludicrous. You should IMHO follow the NFL rule and divide the points as I have indicated above and as has been indicated by other posters has been done by other fantasy games. They are following the scoring as indicated by NFL Rule 3 and there is no reason for you not to that I can see in the current NFFC rules.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:26 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by FF Addict:
Greg, yes the WCOFF in 2003 gave the points to the defense. I had McCardell on my team. He scored two TD's without it, would have been three. Colts still won 38-35. That's what I thought. I remember that thread well as the WCOFF boards were mandatory reading back then.

Damn, those were heated boards. I trust Lenny scored it according to the letter of his rules just like we are doing today.

Are the WCOFF rules spelled out differently today that they are ruling this for Meacham? [/QUOTE]Yes, Meachem scores the points now. [/QUOTE]Yup, they have it spelled out in their rules. Good job by them for identifying this play. They state that they will award two points to the defense and individual points to the person who returns a fumble for a TD. It's a unique way to score it, but it's certainly spelled out.

We should spell it out better in our rules since it's now happened twice in the last seven years. We have it the way the NFL scores it, but we better spell it out better in our rules no matter which way we go in 2010 and beyond. KJ, remind me to do that during the offseason.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:32 am

Originally posted by Tamuscarecrow:
Now that I'm off the plane and reading the posts since my last one, I'm starting to get agitated here so let me spell this out in plain English. Parts of NFL Rule 3, Section 35 are back on page 2 or 3 that KJ and I pulled from a Footballguys post today concerning this play and the fantasy analysis of it 6 years ago BEFORE THE NFFC. I'm not going to copy it here again but it essentially says in this instance, Robert Meacham started the play as on offensive player, changed to a defensive player when the interception occurred, and reverted back to an offensive player after he took the ball away from Kareem Moore. Therefore, it is an offensive TD with Washington D getting 2 points for the interception, the Saints D getting 2 points for the fumble recovery as Meacham was a defensive player when that occurred, and Meacham gets 6 points for the td because he reverted back to an offensive player after the takeaway and scored the td as an offensive player. This is how the rule reads, like it or not.

Therefore, Greg, no, you don't have a rule giving a defense 6 points for a td scored by an offensive player. So doing this is ludicrous. You should IMHO follow the NFL rule and divide the points as I have indicated above and as has been indicated by other posters has been done by other fantasy games. They are following the scoring as indicated by NFL Rule 3 and there is no reason for you not to that I can see in the current NFFC rules. Rick, are you then giving him rushing yardage for this too? Did the NFL do that?

Our rules state that a player scores a TD if he recovers an offensive fumble for a touchdown. Meacham did not recover an offensive fumble for a touchdown. He was defending his goal as a defensive player after the interception and that's how it's scored.

If Devin Hester is playing safety on the last play of the game and intercepts a pass and goes for a TD it's scored for the Chicago D. Yes, once he took the interception he's on offense. But he doesn't get the TD in our scoring system or the return yards because he was on defense at the time of the play. The Meacham play isn't any different under our rules.

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:38 am

No rushing yardage, just the td.

The key verbage in your Hester scenario is "safety". Meacham started the play as wr, switched to defensive player after the interception, and ended the play as wr after taking the ball away from Moore according to NFL Rule 3, Section 35. Hester as "safety" started the play on the defensive side of the ball and is therefore considered a defensive player. Any points scored would be for the Chicago D.