MDFL Folds

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:16 am

Just as a reference of information, the Million Dollar Fantasy League has sent out an e-mail to its interested customers to tell them that the event has folded for 2004. The MDFL had been scheduled for Aug. 21 at the Rio Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas and was attempting to get 768 teams at $2,600 each. They are now referring their customers to Kahuna Sports' Fantasy Frenzy.

According to one of our members, his entire entry fee was refunded last week, which is good news for the entire industry. We wish everyone in this industry good luck and MDFL has said in its e-mail that it will attempt to return in 2005. Again, this is just an FYI for all fantasy players as there are now six scheduled high-stakes live events for this fall.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:54 am

The only million dollar fantasy football contest will be this one. Perhaps in a couple more years. You guys got a great business model. Just need to
1) Generate new customers
2) Keep current customers happy

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:38 pm

What a surprise. On May 28 I posted:

The million dollar event will fold (768 @ $2600 is not going to happen.here:

http://nffcboards.stats.com/cgi-bin/ult ... 019#000002

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:55 pm

So, you're saying... in addition to the 68 they have right now, including 7 signups in the entire month of June - Kahuna is going to also rake in both of the fools who tossed in $2600 to a start up outfit advertising nailing over 700 entries?

Sounds like Kahuna is going to be loaded up with a solid 90 teams or so. And then their high-rake Texas Hold'em where they're going to collect 150 people at $179 apiece... that's $26k coming in and $17,000 in cash payout? WTF... you guys are keeping 1/3 of the buy-in for putting on the event? I'm waiting for the 50/50 raffle where keep half the raffle funds for buying the numbered tickets. Nice.

Sorry Kahuna - I'm not sharing a lunch buffet with Refrigerator Perry and for an outfit claiming at various points to be drafting live in Vegas for 5 or 6 years depending on what part of your site you read... I just don't see it. Either you're exaggerating your claims of 5 (err, 6) years of live events in Vegas or you tick off a lot of people to have built such a minimal fan base over that timeframe. Which is it? Let's get some honesty out there.

I know Mesick reads these boards, he can reply if he likes or tell me to go to hell. Doesn't matter to me. I'm just pointing out some inconsistencies.

What's the motivation to run an event with mediocre attendance? "Everybody knows your name?"

Nevermind - I'm just grumpy since I'm up this late and have an early morning coming up.

Have a good Tuesday everyone.

Dave

KahunaSports · Post by **KahunaSports** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:39 am

Dave, we have been doing live drafts in Las Vegas for six years. Go back to the 1998 Fantasy Insights Expo (Greg can vouch for this one) we were doing live drafts back then at this event.

After that event did not come back we started our own mini showcase invitingn people to come out to Vegas and draft.

So, yes we have been doing live drafts in Las Vegas for six years.

As for the $179 for the poker event, I guess you have never put on a poker tournament. It's not like your buddies going into play. You pay the casino up front for staff and tips ahead of time.

As with any event there are costs associated. Many people think the events are collecting all this extra money but many of you may not know all the costs associated. Too many to list.

Anyway, if anyone has any questions and would like the correct information they can always ask. It's better than listening to "hear say".

So, Dave be grumpy and I will always answer your posts.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:44 am

James, I don't like to call out competitive contests on our boards as I've often said this industry is big enough for all of us to succeed if we run first-rate contests. But since you did respond to Dyv here, I felt compelled to jump in and comment on a few things.

Like Dyv, I also have gone to your Message Boards and noticed that on May 3 you announced that Fantasy Frenzy had 57 signups. Then on June 7th you had 61 and as of July 14th you had 68. So I think Dyv is accurate when he points out that seven in the last month (and 11 in 2+ months) is interesting considering that MDFL folded for lack of signups. No problem, though, as training camps haven't even started yet, but still a fact.

But more importantly to me, Fantasy Frenzy is the only fantasy contest out there that has announced a large grand prize ($100,000) but says it will pro-rate the grand prize based on the number of entries. Right now on the boards, it says that if you get six leagues the grand prize will be $17,000. Unfortunately, it's not legal to announce a large grand prize and then pro-rate based on signups. We'd all love to do that, but the rest of us are sticking our necks out on the line (in my case to the tune of $250,000 in guaranteed money) and staking our reputations on the line as well.

Legally, we all have two options depending on signups: 1) Pay what you've advertised and either reap the rewards or sow those costly seeds; or 2) Refund everyone's money and have them sign new contracts to play under a revised prize structure. Really, that's the legal way and the way every contest should be operating.

You and I go a long way back in this industry and I wish every business the best as multiple magazines are successful today, multiple stat services are successful, multiple online information sites are successful, multiple fantasy games are successful and there's no reason why multiple fantasy high-stakes contests/events can't be successful. But I'm just pointing out a fact that our foundations are different and I know that Dyv (who has created a fantasy web site himself with legal fantasy games) sees some inconsistencies with the Frenzy too. They are points I could have left alone as well, but thought they needed to be stated instead.

Good luck again and feel free to respond as we both know fantasy players are checking out all of the contests and staying informed. I'd love to see you guarantee that grand prize and have us both be rewarded at the end of the season with full contests.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:28 am

Originally posted by James Mesick:
Dave, we have been doing live drafts in Las Vegas for six years. Go back to the 1998 Fantasy Insights Expo (Greg can vouch for this one) we were doing live drafts back then at this event.

After that event did not come back we started our own mini showcase invitingn people to come out to Vegas and draft.

So, yes we have been doing live drafts in Las Vegas for six years.

As for the $179 for the poker event, I guess you have never put on a poker tournament. It's not like your buddies going into play. You pay the casino up front for staff and tips ahead of time.

As with any event there are costs associated. Many people think the events are collecting all this extra money but many of you may not know all the costs associated. Too many to list.

Anyway, if anyone has any questions and would like the correct information they can always ask. It's better than listening to "hear say".

So, Dave be grumpy and I will always answer your posts. You've been 'doing live drafts' in Vegas for 6 yrs... what does that mean? You and some buddies have been to Vegas for a single league? What makes me uneasy is that you use some of this to promote the 'fact' you're experienced at this... 'been doing this for 6 yrs' - but the 'this' is totally different than what you are representing. You haven't been running mutliple leagues, big money contests for 6 yrs., have you? If so - what details can you provide? How many people, etc. ? I'm not interested in the fact I've done a live draft football league with my buddies in Kalamazoo, MI for the last 14 yrs. and now I've got experience 'running live football drafts' - that's ridiculous.

So, of the $179 you collect and the $9,000 gap between what you collect and what is being paid out... how much goes to Binion's and how much goes to you guys? Please, tell me how much work it was to call Binion's and say 'poker, 150 people, Saturday, September 4th... how much?' You are right, though - I've never set up a poker tournament at Binion's before. You could just tell, couldn't you?

Ok, James - I know there are more costs to running the contest than just 'inflow vs. outflow in prizes' - didn't even begin to worry about that and I don't care if you make money. That's up to you and I hope you do it. I just don't like checking out your site and walking away feeling (opinion, not "hear say") that you guys are misleading people and that it's going to hurt the entire fantasy games industry.

If someone writes an 'expose' style paper about the 'seedy underworld of the fantasy games business' it would hurt all of us - people running sites, games or gamers themselves.

I could have posted all of this on YOUR message board... I'm just using an obvious forum to air my feelings. If I'm wrong, you'll get my apology.

Thanks,

Dave

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:59 am

Trust in Greg Ambrosius. He has never let us down. He followed through on guaranteeing the grand prize of $100,000 for his baseball event, even though they didn't have the # of teams they were originally shooting for. Greg has been a stand-up guy, as well as his whole organization, KP.

[ July 14, 2004, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:00 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
Trust in Greg Ambrosius. He has never let us down. He followed through on guaranteeing the grand prize of $100,000 for his baseball event, even though they didn't have the # of teams they were originally shooting for. Greg has been a stand-up guy, as well as his whole organization, KP. Are your lips tired Gordo from smooching so much butt? Geez, the word "brown noser" isn't even appropriate here! :rolleyes: How many posts is this now? Are you expecting a free room or something?

I think they are running a first class operation too, but give your knees a break buddy!

[ July 14, 2004, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

KahunaSports · Post by **KahunaSports** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:12 am

We are not misleading people when we state we have been doing live drafts in Las Vegas for six years. It is not a single draft. We hold these events each and every year and many of our long time Internet players will come out to Las Vegas to draft in multiple live drafts.

Yes, this is the first year for putting together a large event but like in years past we have done all the footwork to secure the hotel and make our events fun for those attending.

We have been running leagues as a business on the net since 1995. Our track record of providing quality leagues, great customer service and paying out our prizes as stated show that we are committed to this as a business.

Dave, I don't know you and if you are running leagues more power to you. We are not misleading people, we answer all of our email and telephone calls and tell people about our event and yes, the fact that we have been doing live drafts of 50-100 people for the last six years and that this is the first year for the Frenzy.

Dave, I don't have to provide the poker information but I will so everyone can see what is involved other than making a simple phone call as you state.

First off, it took almost four months of negotiating with Binions to get a tournament of this size set up. Numerous emails, phone calls and even a on site meeting.

Total collected if all 150 play, $26850 (the $17,000 in prizes are already set and not based on number of poker players) Cost per person is $45 to Binion's, $6 per person for the bus transportation, promo items at the event $1000. So, assuming we have 150 players we will have an additional $1200 remaining that will go into the prize pool to make it even more.

I would love someone to write an expose because if you look each and every year there are fantasy operators that come out of the woodwork and then fold up the following year. Those of us that have pushed this business forward have done so by providing customers with trustworthy operations, great entertainment and excellent customer service.

I would love to have a Krause publications behind me but we don't. We are like any small business that wants to advance the fantasy game and keep it moving forward, cover our costs and maybe if we get lucky make a few extra dollars. Just to let you know if you are truly interested, our profit on a Frenzy team is $27 per person and that is dwindling as we are putting more into advertising and prizes for the attendees. Frankly, we will run this event even if we don't make a dime because we would rather have people enjoy themselves and have a great time.

Greg, we have discussed the prize issue with our attorneys and we are doing everything leagally by posting the information on the site. We could have simply offered a $100,000 and then put in our rules that if we did not get enough people we would contact them. Each and every person that registers with us understands that if we do not hit our 408 that the overall prizes will be adjusted. It is no different than what is stated in your rules; see below.

"At its sole discretion, Krause Publications also reserves the right to terminate The National Fantasy Football Championship in its entirety if there are an insufficient number of teams by August 30, 2004. In this unlikely event, Krause Publications will refund all entry fees within 48 hours of cancellation notice and/or provide a new application form with the newly stated prize figures. All pre-registered applicants would have the right to a full refund or agree to play for the newly announced prize structure".

So, as I stated before, there is room for multiple groups, WCOFF paved the way and many of us like yourself are expanding into this arena.

Good luck with your game.

[ July 14, 2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: James Mesick ]