Here's just one example of why a surgically repaired injury does not put you on the same level as someone without an injury.
Years ago they were using a technique for low back disc herniations called a laminectomy. This is where they go in and remove the disc and fuse the two vertebrae together.
Studies showed that within one year 35% of the patients had to go back in to have the one above or below done and 75% had to go back in within 5 years.
Anecdotally, I understand Jim Burt (formerly of the Giants) went back in at the 5 year mark to have the one above AND below fused. The pressure just shifted.
Surgeries often trigger scarring and other adverse conditions that, over time, do not allow the athlete to have full range of the joint.
Finally, and simply, sometimes the surgery repiar is not as good as mother nature and that player may have a weakness in a joint that is just simply not going withstand the punishment.
Hope this answers your question
MJD
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bald is beautiful
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MJD
Originally posted by RiFF:
Stafford's a "China Doll" I'd like to see you get body slammed by Julius Peppers and see whether your shoulder could withstand that blow or whether you are a "china doll", too.
Stafford's a "China Doll" I'd like to see you get body slammed by Julius Peppers and see whether your shoulder could withstand that blow or whether you are a "china doll", too.
MJD
Originally posted by The FF Maestro:
True, true...but to play Devil's Advocate here, how many times in the last decade have owners passed on "injury risk" and/or pre-season injured players only to watch them tear it up (no hammy pun intended) on the gridiron once the season commences?...history is replete with examples like this...I remember that to be the case with Clinton Portis about 4 or 5 years ago when he was deemed a first round talent battling an injury that he suffered during a pre-season game while tackling a DB during an interception return...well, long story short, his percieved value was walloped and he then improperly proceeded to slip to the early third round where I and many others were overjoyed buyers
...I'm just sayin', that's all... I remember Portis' bounce-back 2007 season well, as we drafted him later than usual and enjoyed the benefits - along with Brady's record-setting season.
But wow! Talk about comparing apples to oranges?! :rolleyes: Portis dislocated his SHOULDER in '06 preseason and later that season broke his HAND - not necessarily the most important body parts for a RB. MJD had KNEE surgery - arguably THE most important body part for a RB. Irrespective of the whole "maybe his knee is BETTER now argument", comparing Portis' ability to produce after injuries to MJD's is rather irrelevant and maybe just yet another preseason smoke screen by the great Snake/GK/FF chameleon?
On August 13, 2006, Portis suffered a partially dislocated shoulder in the first quarter of a Week 1 pre-season game after tackling Cincinnati Bengals cornerback Keiwan Ratliff following a Bengals interception.
Portis suffered another setback in the first quarter of the Redskins' November 12 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles. Portis left the game with a hand injury and was replaced by backup Ladell Betts. X-rays revealed that Portis broke his right hand during the game. He was operated on and placed on the Redskins' Injured Reserve list three days later, on November 15.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Portis
Portis' 2007 stats: (Sportsline)
Rushing: 1262 yds, 11 TDs
Receiving: 47 recs, 389 yds
[ August 15, 2011, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
True, true...but to play Devil's Advocate here, how many times in the last decade have owners passed on "injury risk" and/or pre-season injured players only to watch them tear it up (no hammy pun intended) on the gridiron once the season commences?...history is replete with examples like this...I remember that to be the case with Clinton Portis about 4 or 5 years ago when he was deemed a first round talent battling an injury that he suffered during a pre-season game while tackling a DB during an interception return...well, long story short, his percieved value was walloped and he then improperly proceeded to slip to the early third round where I and many others were overjoyed buyers
...I'm just sayin', that's all... I remember Portis' bounce-back 2007 season well, as we drafted him later than usual and enjoyed the benefits - along with Brady's record-setting season. But wow! Talk about comparing apples to oranges?! :rolleyes: Portis dislocated his SHOULDER in '06 preseason and later that season broke his HAND - not necessarily the most important body parts for a RB. MJD had KNEE surgery - arguably THE most important body part for a RB. Irrespective of the whole "maybe his knee is BETTER now argument", comparing Portis' ability to produce after injuries to MJD's is rather irrelevant and maybe just yet another preseason smoke screen by the great Snake/GK/FF chameleon?
On August 13, 2006, Portis suffered a partially dislocated shoulder in the first quarter of a Week 1 pre-season game after tackling Cincinnati Bengals cornerback Keiwan Ratliff following a Bengals interception.
Portis suffered another setback in the first quarter of the Redskins' November 12 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles. Portis left the game with a hand injury and was replaced by backup Ladell Betts. X-rays revealed that Portis broke his right hand during the game. He was operated on and placed on the Redskins' Injured Reserve list three days later, on November 15.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Portis
Portis' 2007 stats: (Sportsline)
Rushing: 1262 yds, 11 TDs
Receiving: 47 recs, 389 yds
[ August 15, 2011, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
MJD
Originally posted by The FF Maestro:
QUOTE]Originally posted by Atlas:
Here's just one example of why a surgically repaired injury does not put you on the same level as someone without an injury.
Years ago they were using a technique for low back disc herniations called a laminectomy. This is where they go in and remove the disc and fuse the two vertebrae together.
Studies showed that within one year 35% of the patients had to go back in to have the one above or below done and 75% had to go back in within 5 years.
Anecdotally, I understand Jim Burt (formerly of the Giants) went back in at the 5 year mark to have the one above AND below fused. The pressure just shifted.
Surgeries often trigger scarring and other adverse conditions that, over time, do not allow the athlete to have full range of the joint.
Finally, and simply, sometimes the surgery repiar is not as good as mother nature and that player may have a weakness in a joint that is just simply not going withstand the punishment.
Hope this answers your question Many holes here (please see below) although I certainly do appreciate the answer...
1) "many years ago" (uhm, whatever hapenned to MODERN medical technology as I was 2 years old when Jim Burt last played a down)?...
2) your assessment has been proven WRONG many a time in the past, factually speaking here, naturally..
3) even IF I were to give you the benefit of the doubt and agreed to what you claim to be the case is indeed100% acccurate here, who's to say what each individual player's average life span/ability might be to play at their accustomed level of playing for 1, 2, 5 or how many ever years to come BEFORE the injury reoccurs and/or gives way?...
I'm just sayin' here, thatt's all... [/quote]
1. Please quote me correctly. I never said "many" years ago. That technique has been modified to "partial" laminectomies and I haven't seen data on what the difference in techniques provided. I used Jim Burt because he was a football example that I was aware of and hoped that it would provide a direct connection.
2. I wasn't providing you with an "assessment" but rather my experince in treating injuries in my office. Although the number of NFL players I've seen is few and far between compared to the HS and college athletes, I believe the correlation is valid.
3. I have no idea what you are talking about and I'm now sorry I even bothered to offer experience to a question I thought you genuinelly sought an answer or opinion.
I defer my 25 years in practice to your apparent expertise. Carry on.
[ August 15, 2011, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Atlas ]
QUOTE]Originally posted by Atlas:
Here's just one example of why a surgically repaired injury does not put you on the same level as someone without an injury.
Years ago they were using a technique for low back disc herniations called a laminectomy. This is where they go in and remove the disc and fuse the two vertebrae together.
Studies showed that within one year 35% of the patients had to go back in to have the one above or below done and 75% had to go back in within 5 years.
Anecdotally, I understand Jim Burt (formerly of the Giants) went back in at the 5 year mark to have the one above AND below fused. The pressure just shifted.
Surgeries often trigger scarring and other adverse conditions that, over time, do not allow the athlete to have full range of the joint.
Finally, and simply, sometimes the surgery repiar is not as good as mother nature and that player may have a weakness in a joint that is just simply not going withstand the punishment.
Hope this answers your question Many holes here (please see below) although I certainly do appreciate the answer...
1) "many years ago" (uhm, whatever hapenned to MODERN medical technology as I was 2 years old when Jim Burt last played a down)?...
2) your assessment has been proven WRONG many a time in the past, factually speaking here, naturally..
3) even IF I were to give you the benefit of the doubt and agreed to what you claim to be the case is indeed100% acccurate here, who's to say what each individual player's average life span/ability might be to play at their accustomed level of playing for 1, 2, 5 or how many ever years to come BEFORE the injury reoccurs and/or gives way?...
I'm just sayin' here, thatt's all... [/quote]
1. Please quote me correctly. I never said "many" years ago. That technique has been modified to "partial" laminectomies and I haven't seen data on what the difference in techniques provided. I used Jim Burt because he was a football example that I was aware of and hoped that it would provide a direct connection.
2. I wasn't providing you with an "assessment" but rather my experince in treating injuries in my office. Although the number of NFL players I've seen is few and far between compared to the HS and college athletes, I believe the correlation is valid.
3. I have no idea what you are talking about and I'm now sorry I even bothered to offer experience to a question I thought you genuinelly sought an answer or opinion.
I defer my 25 years in practice to your apparent expertise. Carry on.
[ August 15, 2011, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Atlas ]
MJD
Originally posted by Bald is Beautiful:
quote:Originally posted by RiFF:
Stafford's a "China Doll" I'd like to see you get body slammed by Julius Peppers and see whether your shoulder could withstand that blow or whether you are a "china doll", too. [/QUOTE]If someone was willing to pay me $72 Million over 6 years I'd gladly partake in Paper Lion part Deux.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CkORRd1I6k
[ August 15, 2011, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: RiFF ]
quote:Originally posted by RiFF:
Stafford's a "China Doll" I'd like to see you get body slammed by Julius Peppers and see whether your shoulder could withstand that blow or whether you are a "china doll", too. [/QUOTE]If someone was willing to pay me $72 Million over 6 years I'd gladly partake in Paper Lion part Deux.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CkORRd1I6k
[ August 15, 2011, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: RiFF ]