Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by Raiders:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by Raiders:
I agree. Just want to add, it could happen that 4 teams could go from a league, small chance, but it could happen.
This would have added 18 more teams to the 48 count. But those 18 teams are strong teams.
John John, none of those 18 would fit the 10% rule..
It would be very hard for 4 teams to be in Top 31 from one league. Maybe one league could do this every 3-4 years IMO. [/QUOTE]Sorry I wasn't clear. IF we went 3 deep this year it would add 18 more teams.
One League could have 4 teams going, but a long shot. [/QUOTE]John, you are misunderstanding this... I'm not for THREE teams from each league making it automatically.
Only three teams is H2H is 3rd or less in pts. [/QUOTE]Sorry I need a nap. Gotcha.
John
Suggestion for next year...
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ultimatefs
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Suggestion for next year...
Captain...
11-2(2nd) and 5th in points doesn't deserve anything. Sorry.
He lost to the 12-1 team the final week. He had his chance to finish first.
Please tell me how a team that misses 1st in pts by 2.65 and ahead of the H2H by almost 150 isn't getting hosed.
Finishing 3rd or lower in points and winning H2H is more about the schedule you lucked into than ANY SKILL you might have. Those owners have skill, but they simply had more luck.
Please name the "points only" people please.
This thread is not about points only and that was clearly stated so please don't hijack it. TIA.
11-2(2nd) and 5th in points doesn't deserve anything. Sorry.
He lost to the 12-1 team the final week. He had his chance to finish first.
Please tell me how a team that misses 1st in pts by 2.65 and ahead of the H2H by almost 150 isn't getting hosed.
Finishing 3rd or lower in points and winning H2H is more about the schedule you lucked into than ANY SKILL you might have. Those owners have skill, but they simply had more luck.
Please name the "points only" people please.
This thread is not about points only and that was clearly stated so please don't hijack it. TIA.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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Uncle Rico
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
Just to clarify, I am not one of the group trying to eliminate H2H competion from the competion here.
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
Originally posted by Fudgie the Whale:
JohnZ - I think you have an excellent idea here.
A constant battle here is waged from those who want to stick with H2H rewards, even though H2H can sometimes reward those who benefit more from lucky match-ups than from drafting and rster management skills.
Your idea allows the excitement of the weekly H2H match-ups to exist, but still rewards those franchises who deserve a shot at the big prize.
Well thought out. Thanks.. It's only 3 more teams than now..
The concept that if you are in the top 2 scoring in the league, you make the dance in ALL leagues is not only FAIR to all leagues, it could help increase sales and is marketable..
An almost double of money and shot at $100K.
JohnZ - I think you have an excellent idea here.
A constant battle here is waged from those who want to stick with H2H rewards, even though H2H can sometimes reward those who benefit more from lucky match-ups than from drafting and rster management skills.
Your idea allows the excitement of the weekly H2H match-ups to exist, but still rewards those franchises who deserve a shot at the big prize.
Well thought out. Thanks.. It's only 3 more teams than now..
The concept that if you are in the top 2 scoring in the league, you make the dance in ALL leagues is not only FAIR to all leagues, it could help increase sales and is marketable..
An almost double of money and shot at $100K.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
Suggestion for next year...
Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by Fudgie the Whale:
JohnZ - I think you have an excellent idea here.
A constant battle here is waged from those who want to stick with H2H rewards, even though H2H can sometimes reward those who benefit more from lucky match-ups than from drafting and rster management skills.
Your idea allows the excitement of the weekly H2H match-ups to exist, but still rewards those franchises who deserve a shot at the big prize.
Well thought out. Thanks.. It's only 3 more teams than now..
The concept that if you are in the top 2 scoring in the league, you make the dance in ALL leagues is not only FAIR to all leagues, it could help increase sales and is marketable..
An almost double of money and shot at $100K. [/QUOTE]So I ask, what about just adding a third team from every league. Problem=fixed.
John
quote:Originally posted by Fudgie the Whale:
JohnZ - I think you have an excellent idea here.
A constant battle here is waged from those who want to stick with H2H rewards, even though H2H can sometimes reward those who benefit more from lucky match-ups than from drafting and rster management skills.
Your idea allows the excitement of the weekly H2H match-ups to exist, but still rewards those franchises who deserve a shot at the big prize.
Well thought out. Thanks.. It's only 3 more teams than now..
The concept that if you are in the top 2 scoring in the league, you make the dance in ALL leagues is not only FAIR to all leagues, it could help increase sales and is marketable..
An almost double of money and shot at $100K. [/QUOTE]So I ask, what about just adding a third team from every league. Problem=fixed.
John
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
Originally posted by Raiders:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by Fudgie the Whale:
JohnZ - I think you have an excellent idea here.
A constant battle here is waged from those who want to stick with H2H rewards, even though H2H can sometimes reward those who benefit more from lucky match-ups than from drafting and rster management skills.
Your idea allows the excitement of the weekly H2H match-ups to exist, but still rewards those franchises who deserve a shot at the big prize.
Well thought out. Thanks.. It's only 3 more teams than now..
The concept that if you are in the top 2 scoring in the league, you make the dance in ALL leagues is not only FAIR to all leagues, it could help increase sales and is marketable..
An almost double of money and shot at $100K. [/QUOTE]So I ask, what about just adding a third team from every league. Problem=fixed.
John [/QUOTE]I don't like that, and here's why...
The Top2 teams in points are often (not all) much, much higher than the 3rd place team in pts.
The 3rd place team in points is often way closer to #4,5,6,7 than #1,2.
Also, 48(current)-51(proposed) is 15.5-16.5% of the pool. 66 teams is 22% and takes away from the what is accomplished in regular season and from the elite status that the dance needs to have IMO.
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by Fudgie the Whale:
JohnZ - I think you have an excellent idea here.
A constant battle here is waged from those who want to stick with H2H rewards, even though H2H can sometimes reward those who benefit more from lucky match-ups than from drafting and rster management skills.
Your idea allows the excitement of the weekly H2H match-ups to exist, but still rewards those franchises who deserve a shot at the big prize.
Well thought out. Thanks.. It's only 3 more teams than now..
The concept that if you are in the top 2 scoring in the league, you make the dance in ALL leagues is not only FAIR to all leagues, it could help increase sales and is marketable..
An almost double of money and shot at $100K. [/QUOTE]So I ask, what about just adding a third team from every league. Problem=fixed.
John [/QUOTE]I don't like that, and here's why...
The Top2 teams in points are often (not all) much, much higher than the 3rd place team in pts.
The 3rd place team in points is often way closer to #4,5,6,7 than #1,2.
Also, 48(current)-51(proposed) is 15.5-16.5% of the pool. 66 teams is 22% and takes away from the what is accomplished in regular season and from the elite status that the dance needs to have IMO.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36419
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
I will state that I too have been concerned about teams that finish second in total points being left out of the Championship Round because a h2h record lower than second beat that team out. It's happened before and I knew it happened in a handful of times this year, too. As John points out, three teams probably have a legitimate reason why they should be in the Championship Round this year.
I've given this a lot of thought in the last month and I'm seriously considering expanding the Championship Round to include three teams from each league, especially in the NFFC Classic. This year that would have allowed 66 teams in the Championship Round -- only 18 more than we have now and only 15 more than what John is proposing here. To me, it would add more value and it would keep more teams fighting to the bitter end with the hope of not only getting their money back for third place but also having a shot at the $100,000 grand prize.
This would basically eliminate the need for the wild card that we have (although we can keep it in place) and give more reward to the example John noted. I feel we already have a complicated enough league playoff system and I am not in favor of changing that to add a third team. H2H and total points champions would still each receive $2,500 with the chance to win another $2,500. The third place team in this example has the chance to earn an additional $100,000 and was already beaten out by the total points champ and h2h champ. You're punishing the total points champ by throwing him into a three-way league playoff setup for the remaining $2,500. With three teams getting in from each league, that's still only 21.4% compared to 15.6% now.
Adding a third league playoff team in the NFFC Primetime also adds value in that contest because now instead of just winning $700 you also have a shot at the $100,000 grand prize. I'm still looking for feedback on that one, however.
So that's what I'm thinking about for 2009 and I'll start a separate thread and rules changes ideas soon. Adding language to address a canceled game and the FAAB deadline will also be in that thread. Hope this helps clarify my position.
I've given this a lot of thought in the last month and I'm seriously considering expanding the Championship Round to include three teams from each league, especially in the NFFC Classic. This year that would have allowed 66 teams in the Championship Round -- only 18 more than we have now and only 15 more than what John is proposing here. To me, it would add more value and it would keep more teams fighting to the bitter end with the hope of not only getting their money back for third place but also having a shot at the $100,000 grand prize.
This would basically eliminate the need for the wild card that we have (although we can keep it in place) and give more reward to the example John noted. I feel we already have a complicated enough league playoff system and I am not in favor of changing that to add a third team. H2H and total points champions would still each receive $2,500 with the chance to win another $2,500. The third place team in this example has the chance to earn an additional $100,000 and was already beaten out by the total points champ and h2h champ. You're punishing the total points champ by throwing him into a three-way league playoff setup for the remaining $2,500. With three teams getting in from each league, that's still only 21.4% compared to 15.6% now.
Adding a third league playoff team in the NFFC Primetime also adds value in that contest because now instead of just winning $700 you also have a shot at the $100,000 grand prize. I'm still looking for feedback on that one, however.
So that's what I'm thinking about for 2009 and I'll start a separate thread and rules changes ideas soon. Adding language to address a canceled game and the FAAB deadline will also be in that thread. Hope this helps clarify my position.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Suggestion for next year...
Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by Fudgie the Whale:
JohnZ - I think you have an excellent idea here.
A constant battle here is waged from those who want to stick with H2H rewards, even though H2H can sometimes reward those who benefit more from lucky match-ups than from drafting and rster management skills.
Your idea allows the excitement of the weekly H2H match-ups to exist, but still rewards those franchises who deserve a shot at the big prize.
Well thought out. Thanks.. It's only 3 more teams than now..
The concept that if you are in the top 2 scoring in the league, you make the dance in ALL leagues is not only FAIR to all leagues, it could help increase sales and is marketable..
An almost double of money and shot at $100K. [/QUOTE]John,
I have to say I agree. I was going to copy your initial post (which was very good) but this post makes a more basic point. I personally have been that 2nd highest point team but behind in H2H at least twice and I believe three times in my NFFC career. I am always thinking about long term growth with the NFFC as the only way I can enjoy this league is if it stays strong and healthy. I think as years go by in the NFFC some owners are going to get frustrated by finishing out of the money (there is no shame in that as these leagues are VERY hard to cash in).
I think some may look at the massive 14 team league and say "wow.. I have to finish 1st in H2H or 1st in total points among all these teams or I likely have no shot at the big prize." Opening up this possibility will not lead to many more teams making the big dance but it gives the sense of more hope to those who have come close but didn't make it.
I like the idea... definately worth discussing.
quote:Originally posted by Fudgie the Whale:
JohnZ - I think you have an excellent idea here.
A constant battle here is waged from those who want to stick with H2H rewards, even though H2H can sometimes reward those who benefit more from lucky match-ups than from drafting and rster management skills.
Your idea allows the excitement of the weekly H2H match-ups to exist, but still rewards those franchises who deserve a shot at the big prize.
Well thought out. Thanks.. It's only 3 more teams than now..
The concept that if you are in the top 2 scoring in the league, you make the dance in ALL leagues is not only FAIR to all leagues, it could help increase sales and is marketable..
An almost double of money and shot at $100K. [/QUOTE]John,
I have to say I agree. I was going to copy your initial post (which was very good) but this post makes a more basic point. I personally have been that 2nd highest point team but behind in H2H at least twice and I believe three times in my NFFC career. I am always thinking about long term growth with the NFFC as the only way I can enjoy this league is if it stays strong and healthy. I think as years go by in the NFFC some owners are going to get frustrated by finishing out of the money (there is no shame in that as these leagues are VERY hard to cash in).
I think some may look at the massive 14 team league and say "wow.. I have to finish 1st in H2H or 1st in total points among all these teams or I likely have no shot at the big prize." Opening up this possibility will not lead to many more teams making the big dance but it gives the sense of more hope to those who have come close but didn't make it.
I like the idea... definately worth discussing.
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Sound Advice
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
The points police are out in full force today.
Some people will just never get it.
If you are going to weaken head to head every year, why not just make this a points league?
We ALL know the answer to that.
If you are going to add more points teams, then add more head to head teams also.
In 6 years the 6 highest points will make it and the 1 best head to head.
Waivers will be open every day.
Computers will set line ups and draft teams automatically.
People will still whine that the top 7 should make it.
And this place will be a ghost town.
It baffles the mind that Greg and Tom make their livings because of head to head competion, but still dont get it.
It's no different than hearing the guys at espn talk about how stupid FF is.
Eventually you just stop watching.
If adding a third team adds more "value" then adding 9 teams from each league would make it 3 times more valuable. Wow.
Some people will just never get it.
If you are going to weaken head to head every year, why not just make this a points league?
We ALL know the answer to that.
If you are going to add more points teams, then add more head to head teams also.
In 6 years the 6 highest points will make it and the 1 best head to head.
Waivers will be open every day.
Computers will set line ups and draft teams automatically.
People will still whine that the top 7 should make it.
And this place will be a ghost town.
It baffles the mind that Greg and Tom make their livings because of head to head competion, but still dont get it.
It's no different than hearing the guys at espn talk about how stupid FF is.
Eventually you just stop watching.
If adding a third team adds more "value" then adding 9 teams from each league would make it 3 times more valuable. Wow.
Suggestion for next year...
Would adding a 3rd team but starting the playoff sprint with a greater weight towards carrying over the regular season points be a compromise? Sure, more teams get in, but they are at a bit of a disadvantage because they will have more ground to make up.
In a weird way, this may also make the Consolation Bracket a little more competitive, hence keep owners active, as the top teams in the Consolation Bracket would not longer be there.
[ December 04, 2008, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Todd Zola ]
In a weird way, this may also make the Consolation Bracket a little more competitive, hence keep owners active, as the top teams in the Consolation Bracket would not longer be there.
[ December 04, 2008, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Todd Zola ]
"No one cares about your team but you."