Suggestion for next year...

[Captain Hook]

Originally posted by King of Queens:
If two teams tie for best H2H, tie breaker should go to the team that won their matchup I have no problem with that....it's H2H

Good Suggestion Glenn

[Raiders]

Originally posted by King of Queens:
If two teams tie for best H2H, tie breaker should go to the team that won their matchup Nice, make HTH mean something.

John

[ultimatefs]

Originally posted by Raiders:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
If two teams tie for best H2H, tie breaker should go to the team that won their matchup Nice, make HTH mean something.

John [/QUOTE]The only problem with this is it is very hard to program. I had to break an 8-way 7-6 tie this week. It's not transparent either.

It's also doesn't fit the high stakes model well IMO.

A team 10-3 with 1900 points splitting a prize with a 10-3 team 1600 would cause they same problems Greg is having this very moment.

This model has to have pts breaking the ties. There's too much money at stake.

[Route Collectors]

Originally posted by King of Queens:
If two teams tie for best H2H, tie breaker should go to the team that won their matchup I would add...if you want to use H2H as a tie break then do an all play H2H for that one purpose only.

Why should anyone get hosed because their H2H matchup that you suggest as the league tie breaker came during a week they have 4 players on bye while their opponant has none?

A good suggestion but I would tweak it this way.

I have no problem rewarding H2H but it doesn't make sense to play for so much dough and still embrace all the randomness.

It's like putting $1350 into the slot machine and hoping one of those pulls nets me more than my total investment.

Sorry guys but in a hobby ruled by things out of my control I'd like to hang onto a small piece of it anyway. If I score alot of points...win or lose.. I'm good. If I don't score points and get a win anyway I'm just lucky.

I can be lucky for alot less money.

[ December 04, 2008, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: Route C ]

[moyer1313]

Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by Captain Hook:
Some very good points Jeff...........BUT let me reiterate one of my concerns.

We DO play H2H as part of this contest
(there are alternative forms that do not...and not sure that Greg would want to have the second contest do it, but...Leagues play 14 weeks to get top four teams to go to playoffs in Weeks 15 & 16; Top seed chooses Week 15 opponent. Pay top three in each league and top teams in contest based soley on Points)

Right now a team could go 11-2 in a contest that HAS H2H games and win Zilch.....sorry that is just not acceptable......and now a team could go 12-1, 11-2, or 10-3 and TIE for best record and get more Zilch....just shouldn't be that way (at a minimum they should split the $ for best record - they DID tie for it!) Sorry Capt... I can see giving 10-3+ teams a shot at the dance, but I don't want to see the League changing anything from Greg's post.

Jeff has a nice post there. This issue IS driving people out of the contest.

If they are tied, there needs to be a tie-breaker.

You need to go behind the numbers and not just the record itself.

In LV1, Mark went 11-2(2nd) and wound up 5th in pts.

he finished 122 pts behind Renfro, the 3rd place team.

125-130 pts is the benchmark IMO on the low end of a decent week. Let's use 125 pts.

#3 FFWingman 7-2 when scoring 125+
8-5(1724) 1-3 when scoring 125-

#4 Follow Me 6-0 when scoring 125+
11-2(1602) 5-2 when scoring 125-

3 more 125+ games, and two more losses. No skill involved. Just good luck for some, bad for others.

This is WHY pts is used as the tie-breaker and why it needs to remain there.
For S&giggles, I'll add..

#1 RapTors 7-1 when scoring 125+
12-1(1628) 5-0 when scoring 125-

#2 69THPlace 6-3 when scoring 125+
8-5 (1781) 2-2 when scoring 125-

Raptors and Follow Me had 1415/1432 PA
69th and FFWingman had 1651/1521 PA

Mark had a solid team and is a much feared opponent, but he's only 11-2 via the schedule. He had little to do with it.

Four wins scoring 95-116. I had one score under 115 the entire year. (of course, against Mark LOL)

He went 11-2, let him in the big dance by being 10-3+, but IMO, he doesn't deserve any league money.

You will find similar results in every league where you do the 125+/- test in these situations. I could have really made this look a lot worse using 130+/-...

This 11-2 team is clearly the 4th best team in this league at best. [/QUOTE]I was going to stay out of this discussion while my name was not being used, but now that it has been used I feel the need to respond.

I am a Total Points person. I do not like H2H. However, I understand that it has to be used in National Contests to attract the most players.

I have no complaints with the current way that the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Place teams are decided, with one exception:

When the team that finishes 3rd in Total Points, loses out in league money to someone that has the best H2H record, but was 4th or less in Total Points scored.

This situation should have happened in this league, but I blew it.

I should have finished 3rd in Total Points. I scored 89 points in Week 13 when all I needed was 115 to finish 3rd in Total Points.

Portis (Average Points - 16.2, Scored - 4.2 points), Boldin (Average Points - 24.3, Scored - 11.1), and Walter (Average Points - 13.5, Scored - 5.8) all really stunk and I screwed up and left IND (21 points instead of 3 points) and Colston (16.6 points instead of 2.5) on my bench.

Additionally, Boldin and Fitzgerald had played in the same game 9 times going into Week 13. Boldin had outscored Fitzgerald in 8 of the 9 games. He outscored him by at least 11 points 4 times and he outscored him by at least 7 points 7 times. Of course, in Week 13 when my opponent has Fitzgerald going against me, Warner decides to love Fitzgerald instead, and Fitzgerald outscores Boldin 23.5 to 11.1.

Between those 6 things, if I had gotten just 2 or 3 of the 6, I would have finished with the 3rd most Total Points, still lost my game, and still finished 11-2.

Then, despite finishing 3rd in Total Points, finishing with an 11-2 record, finishing 3rd in All-Play, and having a losing record against only 2 teams, I would have still finished out of the money.

That would have really stunk.

"Luckily," I stunk in Week 13 and avoided that situation.


Did I deserve to be 11-2? No, I did not.

Did I deserve any league money? As a Total Points person, no I did not. I gave it away in Week 13 when I dropped from 3rd in Total Points to 5th in Total Points.

If I had finished 11-2 and 3rd in Total Points, would I have deserved league money? Yes, I would have, even though I would not have received any.

As lucky as I was to go 11-2, I was unlucky enough to be in one of the few (2 or 3, I think) leagues with someone that went 12-1.

If the H2H people would like to use my team to help their case that an 11-2 team should be rewarded, please, feel free.



Personally, I don't care who advances to the Championship Round. I do care who gets to cash in on the league money.

If we are going to add stuff to protect teams that do well, I'd like to protect the team that is 3rd in Total Points, rather than the team that goes 11-2.

I'd also rather protect them with a cut of the league money, rather than with a chance to advance to the Championship Round.

Just my $0.02, which is always on the losing/minority side.


I do take exception to this statement:

"This 11-2 team is clearly the 4th best team in this league at best."

With Boldin and Colston back, I believe I am possibly the 3rd best team in the league and the 4th best team at worst. Check the All-Play records and the records versus each team.

Mark
Follow Me

[ February 25, 2009, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Follow Me ]