Again I think the first thing is to increase the League winners to $6K
Second would be to up third place money - especially since most of these teams have no chance to go to the big dance.
IMO third would be to nudge up the Overall Champions prize slightly as GG suggests.
NFFC Entry Fee?
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36413
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
NFFC Entry Fee?
Originally posted by weber77:
I can tell you as a disgruntled WCOFF player i am and will come over and bring as many as i can over with me.
- Greg let me ask you. is competing head to head with WCOFF on the week of NFL startup the reason you don't want to switch weekends or is it just a choice? Well, there's no question that after our successful baseball event in 2004 (successful if you consider losing money the first year, that is!
) we chose to do football on another weekend than WCOFF, since it already had 600 high-stakes players. That was a big point of me choosing Labor Day weekend. But I also felt that it was foolish to draft teams after one game had been played and in some ways I felt the three day holiday weekend would work out for people who wanted to get away for a high-stakes football event. All of the NFL's pre-season games are done by then, so injuries wouldn't be an issue, as we've seen in three years of NFFC drafts.
I don't have any desire to move to the following weekend or to move away from 14-team leagues at this point. I kind of like the niche that we have in the market and hopefully we'll continue to grow as more people hear about our event/contest. Competing AGAINST the WCOFF isn't as important to me as it is for others as I think there's a market for both of us to succeed. And without a doubt, there will be plenty of more wannabees for football this year, now that the licensing barrier is currently down. So it could be a wild, wild West in 2007 and hopefully the contests that have paid back millions of dollars through the last few years will win out.
I can tell you as a disgruntled WCOFF player i am and will come over and bring as many as i can over with me.
- Greg let me ask you. is competing head to head with WCOFF on the week of NFL startup the reason you don't want to switch weekends or is it just a choice? Well, there's no question that after our successful baseball event in 2004 (successful if you consider losing money the first year, that is!
) we chose to do football on another weekend than WCOFF, since it already had 600 high-stakes players. That was a big point of me choosing Labor Day weekend. But I also felt that it was foolish to draft teams after one game had been played and in some ways I felt the three day holiday weekend would work out for people who wanted to get away for a high-stakes football event. All of the NFL's pre-season games are done by then, so injuries wouldn't be an issue, as we've seen in three years of NFFC drafts.I don't have any desire to move to the following weekend or to move away from 14-team leagues at this point. I kind of like the niche that we have in the market and hopefully we'll continue to grow as more people hear about our event/contest. Competing AGAINST the WCOFF isn't as important to me as it is for others as I think there's a market for both of us to succeed. And without a doubt, there will be plenty of more wannabees for football this year, now that the licensing barrier is currently down. So it could be a wild, wild West in 2007 and hopefully the contests that have paid back millions of dollars through the last few years will win out.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36413
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
NFFC Entry Fee?
Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
I think the $5,000.00 to $6,000.00 league winner prize would instantly put it on par with the grandaddy.
Winning your league is the goal...or at least the first goal.
Winning it all is a free-for-all that rewards the hot team over a short term.
~Lance I tend to disagree with the points that want the first place prize to grow to $6,000. WCOFF just went from $5,000 to $6,000 this year and they were able to do that because they've grown from 550 teams in 2002 to 840 this year and haven't increased the grand prize at all. I agree with them increasing the league prizes, but it's not like $6,000 has always been out there.
In the NFFC, you had a 1 in 322 chance of winning $100,000 this year. In the WCOFF, you had a 1 in 840 chance of winning $200,000. Honestly, everyone has to pick the place that 1) they have the best chance of turning a profit; and 2) the place that they get their money's worth in enjoyment. I realize more than anyone that this is entertainment and it's our job to make sure this is fun, not frustrating, for you. Live scoring HAS to be there. Free Agent deadlines HAVE to be met. Your rosters MUST be input before the first week's games. You MUST have a chance to vent on the Message Boards. Hopefully, even if you didn't win money this year you enjoyed the NFFC experience, from the off-season banter to the live drafts to the league competition.
I think the $5,000.00 to $6,000.00 league winner prize would instantly put it on par with the grandaddy.
Winning your league is the goal...or at least the first goal.
Winning it all is a free-for-all that rewards the hot team over a short term.
~Lance I tend to disagree with the points that want the first place prize to grow to $6,000. WCOFF just went from $5,000 to $6,000 this year and they were able to do that because they've grown from 550 teams in 2002 to 840 this year and haven't increased the grand prize at all. I agree with them increasing the league prizes, but it's not like $6,000 has always been out there.
In the NFFC, you had a 1 in 322 chance of winning $100,000 this year. In the WCOFF, you had a 1 in 840 chance of winning $200,000. Honestly, everyone has to pick the place that 1) they have the best chance of turning a profit; and 2) the place that they get their money's worth in enjoyment. I realize more than anyone that this is entertainment and it's our job to make sure this is fun, not frustrating, for you. Live scoring HAS to be there. Free Agent deadlines HAVE to be met. Your rosters MUST be input before the first week's games. You MUST have a chance to vent on the Message Boards. Hopefully, even if you didn't win money this year you enjoyed the NFFC experience, from the off-season banter to the live drafts to the league competition.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36413
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
NFFC Entry Fee?
Originally posted by King of Queens:
I guess the big debate is whether extra money should go towards league prizes or overall prizes. From the responses in this thread, it seems that reaching a consensus would be next to impossible. It is a worthy debate, but my goal is to raise the overall prizes with increased participation and we're not going to get close to $200,000 overnight unless I find a title sponsor who feels the promotional value is worth the investment. Even going to $125,000 or $150,000 isn't going to sway the masses over to me. Now having a league prize of $5,000, $2,500 and $1,000 might make people feel more comfortable as they'd almost get their money back if they finish in the top three. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've always wanted to take care of the league prizes if I could.
What a lot of people don't realize is that my prize structure for 350 teams is based on a 79 percent payout. In 2004 as some of you may recall, I originally promoted a $200,000 grand prize and when we knew we were going to fall short, we asked all of you to stick around if we just lowered the grand prize to $100,000 and nothing else. We were willing to take that first year hit to show you we were in this for the long haul. Well, after that first year, it was tough to lower anything else, so I've kept all of the prizes intact with the hope that we'd get above 350 sometime and I could land at the 75% level with growth. That hasn't happened yet. But this has been a good three-year growing plan for us and all of you have benefitted, but at some point our payout percentage has to get closer other competitions (trust me, WCOFF is not at 79%).
I guess the big debate is whether extra money should go towards league prizes or overall prizes. From the responses in this thread, it seems that reaching a consensus would be next to impossible. It is a worthy debate, but my goal is to raise the overall prizes with increased participation and we're not going to get close to $200,000 overnight unless I find a title sponsor who feels the promotional value is worth the investment. Even going to $125,000 or $150,000 isn't going to sway the masses over to me. Now having a league prize of $5,000, $2,500 and $1,000 might make people feel more comfortable as they'd almost get their money back if they finish in the top three. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've always wanted to take care of the league prizes if I could.
What a lot of people don't realize is that my prize structure for 350 teams is based on a 79 percent payout. In 2004 as some of you may recall, I originally promoted a $200,000 grand prize and when we knew we were going to fall short, we asked all of you to stick around if we just lowered the grand prize to $100,000 and nothing else. We were willing to take that first year hit to show you we were in this for the long haul. Well, after that first year, it was tough to lower anything else, so I've kept all of the prizes intact with the hope that we'd get above 350 sometime and I could land at the 75% level with growth. That hasn't happened yet. But this has been a good three-year growing plan for us and all of you have benefitted, but at some point our payout percentage has to get closer other competitions (trust me, WCOFF is not at 79%).
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36413
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
NFFC Entry Fee?
Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
I do both leagues, as many here do. I also throw my hat into a few satellite leagues in both games. I've had some luck in my leagues, both good luck and bad luck. I've never come close to winning the grand prize as most of us have not. Given that reality, it is nice to pay your money in and at least have a fair shot at getting a decent check back in the mail for doing well in your league. Then, you have your "get hot at the right time" chance of winning the big money as an added bonus.
$100,000 or $125,000; not much of a real difference. Either way you are holding your breath until the last second of the last game and jumping up and down if you end up in first. Every year only a handful will have that shot on week 16. For the vast majority we're looking to justify our entry fee with prize money won at the end of week 13.
That said, if the entry fee is increased I think the first thing to do is raise the league money. Raising the Grand Prize should be a function of gathering in more teams, not more entry fee. Getting substantially less than your entry fee for finishing 3rd in a league of 14 is not good for business.
Just my opinion. $50 more to pay $500 more to 3rd place is a great start.
Pete You said everything I was thinking.
I do both leagues, as many here do. I also throw my hat into a few satellite leagues in both games. I've had some luck in my leagues, both good luck and bad luck. I've never come close to winning the grand prize as most of us have not. Given that reality, it is nice to pay your money in and at least have a fair shot at getting a decent check back in the mail for doing well in your league. Then, you have your "get hot at the right time" chance of winning the big money as an added bonus.
$100,000 or $125,000; not much of a real difference. Either way you are holding your breath until the last second of the last game and jumping up and down if you end up in first. Every year only a handful will have that shot on week 16. For the vast majority we're looking to justify our entry fee with prize money won at the end of week 13.
That said, if the entry fee is increased I think the first thing to do is raise the league money. Raising the Grand Prize should be a function of gathering in more teams, not more entry fee. Getting substantially less than your entry fee for finishing 3rd in a league of 14 is not good for business.
Just my opinion. $50 more to pay $500 more to 3rd place is a great start.
Pete You said everything I was thinking.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36413
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
NFFC Entry Fee?
Originally posted by TURBOUGH:
quote:Originally posted by Bigger MO:
I agree with Gekko. Average fans don't spend $1,250 on fantasy football, let alone $1,500. The clientelle you are seeking won't be bothered with the extra $250. But when does it get to be too much? I still think that co-manager money should go back into the league payouts. JMO [/QUOTE]It does seem like free money for us, doesn't it? But we do buy more space in all three cities to accommodate co-managers for every team (see photos of the other events) and we've always tried to take care of everyone with drink tickets, portfolios, goodie bags and other things. Participants don't ever think about the costs of shipping 500 portfolios, goodie bags, buying space in three different cities without passing on that cost to you like other contests do, drinks and other expenses. Again, I'm not looking for sympathy and maybe I'll do something creative with the co-manager fee this year (stay tuned), but trust me we budget for every expense and part of this fee allows us to make the draft a better experience for everyone. The money is put back into the event and then some, trust me.
When we start scrimping on the live drafts, let me know because then I won't be having any fun either. And when that happens, it's time for me to retire! I'm old enough to do just that.
quote:Originally posted by Bigger MO:
I agree with Gekko. Average fans don't spend $1,250 on fantasy football, let alone $1,500. The clientelle you are seeking won't be bothered with the extra $250. But when does it get to be too much? I still think that co-manager money should go back into the league payouts. JMO [/QUOTE]It does seem like free money for us, doesn't it?
But we do buy more space in all three cities to accommodate co-managers for every team (see photos of the other events) and we've always tried to take care of everyone with drink tickets, portfolios, goodie bags and other things. Participants don't ever think about the costs of shipping 500 portfolios, goodie bags, buying space in three different cities without passing on that cost to you like other contests do, drinks and other expenses. Again, I'm not looking for sympathy and maybe I'll do something creative with the co-manager fee this year (stay tuned), but trust me we budget for every expense and part of this fee allows us to make the draft a better experience for everyone. The money is put back into the event and then some, trust me.When we start scrimping on the live drafts, let me know because then I won't be having any fun either. And when that happens, it's time for me to retire!
I'm old enough to do just that.Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36413
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
NFFC Entry Fee?
I don't have a desire right now to increase the team fee. If I did, I'd consider the $50 to $1,300 and increase third place league money. I might be foolish to think that way, but I honestly think that teams look at the league prizes first and the overall prizes that we have now is still a worthy target. If we hit all our marks next year and grew this event beyond 378 teams or so, then every penny after that could go towards increased overall prizes.
Just my two cents for a cold December day.
Just my two cents for a cold December day.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
-
bald is beautiful
- Posts: 1375
- Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 6:00 pm
NFFC Entry Fee?
Originally posted by CC's Desperados:
. The problem is alot of players in the Wcoff don't even know about the NFFC. CC's - I don't think this is true anymore, particularly after all the issues wcoff had with xperts this year and the wrath of many players. I believe most of the hardcore players know all their options at this point.
Weber - I understand where you are coming from. I am quite frustrated with wcoff right now. As of 12/9, I do not know whether I will be reurning for my 6th year. NFFC has been great this year.
. The problem is alot of players in the Wcoff don't even know about the NFFC. CC's - I don't think this is true anymore, particularly after all the issues wcoff had with xperts this year and the wrath of many players. I believe most of the hardcore players know all their options at this point.
Weber - I understand where you are coming from. I am quite frustrated with wcoff right now. As of 12/9, I do not know whether I will be reurning for my 6th year. NFFC has been great this year.
NFFC Entry Fee?
bald, WCOFF has treated me and many others like crap based on message board talk. because i happen to be an avid supporter of auction drafting and am good at it i get ridiculed on a daily basis.. Lenny has taken it upon himself to ban many people from the boards because he doesn't like their opinions.. he is just too personal in the running of that organization.
The boards are for opinions regardless of what they are, regardless !!! YOu have to lure the people over with more then a good stat service. They are used to rules and a format that they have been doing for years.. although im doing NFFC no matter what i honestly believe that if NFFC went 12 teams a whole slew of people would shoot over.. just an opinion.. regardless NFFC has my support.. i do like the game of WCOFF it's very good and competitive.. i will say that i just wish they would chill out a bit and listen to the problems.. who knows anymore..
The boards are for opinions regardless of what they are, regardless !!! YOu have to lure the people over with more then a good stat service. They are used to rules and a format that they have been doing for years.. although im doing NFFC no matter what i honestly believe that if NFFC went 12 teams a whole slew of people would shoot over.. just an opinion.. regardless NFFC has my support.. i do like the game of WCOFF it's very good and competitive.. i will say that i just wish they would chill out a bit and listen to the problems.. who knows anymore..
-
CC's Desperados
- Posts: 895
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:00 pm
- Contact:
NFFC Entry Fee?
Originally posted by bald is beautiful:
quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:
. The problem is alot of players in the Wcoff don't even know about the NFFC. CC's - I don't think this is true anymore, particularly after all the issues wcoff had with xperts this year and the wrath of many players. I believe most of the hardcore players know all their options at this point.
Weber - I understand where you are coming from. I am quite frustrated with wcoff right now. As of 12/9, I do not know whether I will be reurning for my 6th year. NFFC has been great this year. [/QUOTE]I'm only using my experience from Atlantic City. I'm sure many players who have been playing for years are aware. I spoke to the players sitting around me in my league. The five or six owners close to me didn't know about the NFFC. I made sure they knew there was another option. I also felt there were many owners playing for the first time. It might have been because it was the first year in AC. After playing one year, I wasn't impressed. I still can't find a place to review my draft. I would play again, but I feel there is a better conection in the NFFC with what is going on outside of your league.
[ December 09, 2006, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]
quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:
. The problem is alot of players in the Wcoff don't even know about the NFFC. CC's - I don't think this is true anymore, particularly after all the issues wcoff had with xperts this year and the wrath of many players. I believe most of the hardcore players know all their options at this point.
Weber - I understand where you are coming from. I am quite frustrated with wcoff right now. As of 12/9, I do not know whether I will be reurning for my 6th year. NFFC has been great this year. [/QUOTE]I'm only using my experience from Atlantic City. I'm sure many players who have been playing for years are aware. I spoke to the players sitting around me in my league. The five or six owners close to me didn't know about the NFFC. I made sure they knew there was another option. I also felt there were many owners playing for the first time. It might have been because it was the first year in AC. After playing one year, I wasn't impressed. I still can't find a place to review my draft. I would play again, but I feel there is a better conection in the NFFC with what is going on outside of your league.
[ December 09, 2006, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]