What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

da bears · Post by **da bears** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:03 am

I still feel extremely lucky to have received my money for winning the WCOFF online championship.

I feel bad for those who haven't been paid yet and can't believe what is going on over there. I was so surprised that they got anyone to play baseball because of their payment problems with football.

[ June 07, 2011, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: da bears ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:26 am

Originally posted by DoubleG:
*Allow customers to “roll over” money

Have you noticed any of these as it pertains to HSFF contests? I would be interested in hearing feedback on this one point because in this space not everyone plays under the same rules and it's disappointing. From a player's standpoint, it's obviously great when the game operator allows them to roll over prize money from one year to the next because a) it makes your cash flow better; and b) you're giving the players a chance not to pay taxes on those winnings, thus making your customers love you even more.

I've discussed this before but in the four different companies I've been involved with since 2004, not a single legal team has allowed us to roll over money from one season to the next and not properly file that as winnings earned. It puts the customers at risk for not paying taxes on those winnings, yet two companies in HSFF do it this way. Now I assume they are getting different legal advice, but there's a reason other companies don't run their games this way.

It's not a red flag for a Ponzi scheme, but it is one sign of keeping money in the coffers as long as possible. WCOFF has hundreds of thousands of dollars in rollover money now that the participants can't cash out even if they wanted to, thus tying them to that game for 2011. The rollovers favor the game operators and set a new legal standard that soon could catch the eyes of the federal government.

But from a players' standpoint, I'm sure they like the rollovers. But it's on your list of red flag items and I agree, it's a red flag for a number of reasons.

Jersey Dawg · Post by **Jersey Dawg** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:51 am

As a player, I liked the WCOFF rollover. It gave me an opportunity to feel like I had a "prepaid" vacation, with nothing to purchase but a plane ticket. It also allowed me the opportunity to tell the wife I won a free ride for the next season as part of the prize package. Getting some cash and a free entry into next season is very nice.

I forget how the NFFC/NFBC handles free entries that are won. Do you issue 1099's for the value of the free entry or do the winners simply show up "prepaid" the next season? I've won a few free entries but honestly don't recall how I was taxed.

Bottom line, rolling over winnings or winning free entries are "good" from the players point of view as well as management's point of view. Win-Win, until the tent is folded by the owner and the player is holding an empty bag.

Pete

Jersey Dawg · Post by **Jersey Dawg** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:55 am

I don't want to imply the WCOFF is folding it's tent or that anyone will get stuck holding the bag. I am still hoping for the best. If their intentions were bad all along nobody would have gotten paid; but many did (including me, less the part I rolled over).

Pete

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:59 am

Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
Bottom line, rolling over winnings or winning free entries are "good" from the players point of view as well as management's point of view. Win-Win, until the tent is folded by the owner and the player is holding an empty bag.

Pete I totally agree with you; who wouldn't like the free rollover as long as the government doesn't know? It's a win-win for everyone, but if that's the case then why doesn't every company in the industry do it this way?

And I feel your pain with the last sentence Pete: I bet you wish you had your $3,500 in cash right now, correct? Explaining the trip to Vegas to your wife with no fantasy game to play in isn't going to be any fun at all. Let's hope it doesn't turn out that way.

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:18 am

Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
As a player, I liked the WCOFF rollover. It gave me an opportunity to feel like I had a "prepaid" vacation, with nothing to purchase but a plane ticket. It also allowed me the opportunity to tell the wife I won a free ride for the next season as part of the prize package. Getting some cash and a free entry into next season is very nice. Pete - Did you report your "rolled over" winnings to the IRS and your state government?

[ June 07, 2011, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: DoubleG ]

Jersey Dawg · Post by **Jersey Dawg** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:28 am

Originally posted by DoubleG:
quote:Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
As a player, I liked the WCOFF rollover. It gave me an opportunity to feel like I had a "prepaid" vacation, with nothing to purchase but a plane ticket. It also allowed me the opportunity to tell the wife I won a free ride for the next season as part of the prize package. Getting some cash and a free entry into next season is very nice. Pete - Did you report your "rolled over" winnings to the IRS and your state government? [/QUOTE]Of course... That would be the correct way to handle it correctly...

Jersey Dawg · Post by **Jersey Dawg** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:31 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
[QUOTE]And I feel your pain with the last sentence Pete: I bet you wish you had your $3,500 in cash right now, correct? Explaining the trip to Vegas to your wife with no fantasy game to play in isn't going to be any fun at all. Let's hope it doesn't turn out that way. Greg.... I have a 50-50 feeling about that $3500 still sitting there. I got $4K out in cash. I have "convinced myself that if I had asked for all $7500 I would not have gotten the first $4K. It seems that smaller requests were paid out and larger ones not as quickly. My glass is at least a bit more than half full. I know others that have nothing yet.

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:28 pm

Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
quote:Originally posted by DoubleG:
quote:Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
As a player, I liked the WCOFF rollover. It gave me an opportunity to feel like I had a "prepaid" vacation, with nothing to purchase but a plane ticket. It also allowed me the opportunity to tell the wife I won a free ride for the next season as part of the prize package. Getting some cash and a free entry into next season is very nice. Pete - Did you report your "rolled over" winnings to the IRS and your state government? [/QUOTE]Of course... That would be the correct way to handle it correctly... [/QUOTE]if you are paying taxes on the rolled over money, what advantage is there to roll over your money. it sounds like you are simply allowing another party to hold your money, instead of you being able to use it, invest it, save it, etc...

i would venture a guess that over 50% of people rolling over their money don't pay their respective taxes. if they did pay their taxes, the IRS or the state government would wonder why your return doesn't match up with your 1099.

IMO, not issuing 1099's for "rolled over" winnings is a shady business practice at best.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:37 pm

Originally posted by DoubleG:
quote:Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
quote:Originally posted by DoubleG:
quote:Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
As a player, I liked the WCOFF rollover. It gave me an opportunity to feel like I had a "prepaid" vacation, with nothing to purchase but a plane ticket. It also allowed me the opportunity to tell the wife I won a free ride for the next season as part of the prize package. Getting some cash and a free entry into next season is very nice. Pete - Did you report your "rolled over" winnings to the IRS and your state government? [/QUOTE]Of course... That would be the correct way to handle it correctly... [/QUOTE]if you are paying taxes on the rolled over money, what advantage is there to roll over your money. it sounds like you are simply allowing another party to hold your money, instead of you being able to use it, invest it, save it, etc...

i would venture a guess that over 50% of people rolling over their money don't pay their respective taxes. if they did pay their taxes, the IRS or the state government would wonder why your return doesn't match up with your 1099.

IMO, not issuing 1099's for "rolled over" winnings is a shady business practice at best. [/QUOTE]Not according to tax law, it isn't.