What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:50 pm

I'd love to see what you're referring to Glenn. Send it my way and I'll gladly send it to STATS' accounting and legal departments for review. If there's a legal way to save tax payments for our customers, we'll do it like you say. But so far I'm 0-for-4. Let's explore it together.

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:10 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
Not according to tax law, it isn't. not issuing 1099's fosters an environment that allows people to cheat (not pay taxes on their winnings). that is shady at best.

when a company partakes in that business practice, it causes me some concern. it's not a deal breaker, but if a couple other "ponzi" criteria are met, i simply won't do business with the company.

i've never been stiffed any money, and i doubt i ever will.

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:16 pm

I just received a VERY alarming PM. Let me talk with a few people tomorrow and organize my thoughts. Should post something tomorrow.

Erok · Post by **Erok** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:38 am

Originally posted by DoubleG:
I just received a VERY alarming PM. Let me talk with a few people tomorrow and organize my thoughts. Should post something tomorrow. About what?

Jersey Dawg · Post by **Jersey Dawg** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:40 am

Originally posted by W. Klown:
quote:Originally posted by DoubleG:
I just received a VERY alarming PM. Let me talk with a few people tomorrow and organize my thoughts. Should post something tomorrow. About what? [/QUOTE]Ditto - Don't leave us hanging like this...

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:31 am

My apologies for not responding earlier. The PM I received does not involve the WCOFF, but a topic addressed in this thread and the ramifications of voicing ones opinion.

I'm still working through some things on my end. Will update as soon as I can.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:57 am

Originally posted by DoubleG:
My apologies for not responding earlier. The PM I received does not involve the WCOFF, but a topic addressed in this thread and the ramifications of voicing ones opinion.

I'm still working through some things on my end. Will update as soon as I can. Now certainly isn't the time for game operators to have thin skin or to dictate what can and can't be discussed on open forums. The leaders in this area of the industry should be open to all discussions that brings all of our games cleaner and guarantees players their prize money. This isn't the first instance of a game operator contacting an NFFC player after a post was made on our boards and it's discouraging. STOP IT or don't read our boards.

No site should throw arrows around the industry at will and then take offense to any open discussion that involves their game. It's time to stop contacting owners with "do this or else" statements. Nobody is pointing fingers in this discussion anyways; we're just trying to figure out if rollovers can be done or not and if they can why haven't all fantasy game operators done it? It's a worthy discussion and all should be involved, including those offended.

Unreal that Double G has been contacted about this. STOP IT.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:54 am

Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
[QUOTE]And I feel your pain with the last sentence Pete: I bet you wish you had your $3,500 in cash right now, correct? Explaining the trip to Vegas to your wife with no fantasy game to play in isn't going to be any fun at all. Let's hope it doesn't turn out that way. Greg.... I have a 50-50 feeling about that $3500 still sitting there. I got $4K out in cash. I have "convinced myself that if I had asked for all $7500 I would not have gotten the first $4K. It seems that smaller requests were paid out and larger ones not as quickly. My glass is at least a bit more than half full. I know others that have nothing yet. [/QUOTE]Pete, it's a shame that any player would have to strategize how they were going to get paid at season's end like you stated above. To think that you felt it made sense to roll $3,500 in winnings over to the next season just so you could get your $4,000 in cash is unbelievable. Nobody should have to do that. You win $7,500 in cash you should be able to cash out $7,500 and not make any concessions. Unbelievable.

I'm not sure how people were paid out at season's end, but the more I talk to our NFFC folks the more I hear about people waiting for that prize money before committing ANYWHERE. $4,500 owed to a past overall champion. $8,000 to another top player. Six figures to another prominent industry player who competes in all of our events. $2,000 for another player. With every phone call to our players comes another story about waiting for WCOFF prize money. This is affecting the entire live events space and will change it for sure.

Let's hope that Dustin and the WCOFF pay off those winners as promised. We're all hoping for that. Good luck Pete.

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:23 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
we're just trying to figure out if rollovers can be done or not and if they can why haven't all fantasy game operators done it? It's a worthy discussion and all should be involved, including those offended.
I agree Greg. It's time for someone to step up and get some answers. Most of the high stakes participants I spoke to in the past 24 hours have said they aren't sure if the practice is legal or not. At a minimum, this should be a discussion point in light of what is happening with WCOFF.

I have no problem contacting various state agencies (such as NY Department of Taxation and Finance, Missouri Department of Revenue, etc), along with the IRS. They all have online customer service centers if I choose that route. The local IRS office is on my water delivery route, so that would be easy access. Last time I stopped in (over a year ago) and asked them questions about companies not issuing 1099's for "rolled over" money, they wanted company names, contact info, etc...At that time, I wasn't prepared to move forward. However with all of the shenanigans that have gone on in the high stakes arena, it's time to move forward.

If they determine it an accepted business practice (legal), I will gladly remove my characterization of it being "shady at best" and then STATS can start offering it.

If they determine the business practice is not accepted (illegal), well, then we are talking something entirely different.

Transparency is KEY. Contest owners saying the topic is not worthy of discussion likely have a hidden agenda. I wouldn't be surprised if they characterized it as "needless debate on rollover".

[ June 08, 2011, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: DoubleG ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:45 pm

Originally posted by DoubleG:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
we're just trying to figure out if rollovers can be done or not and if they can why haven't all fantasy game operators done it? It's a worthy discussion and all should be involved, including those offended.
I agree Greg. It's time for someone to step up and get some answers. Most of the high stakes participants I spoke to in the past 24 hours have said they aren't sure if the practice is legal or not. At a minimum, this should be a discussion point in light of what is happening with WCOFF.

I have no problem contacting various state agencies (such as NY Department of Taxation and Finance, Missouri Department of Revenue, etc), along with the IRS. They all have online customer service centers if I choose that route. The local IRS office is on my water delivery route, so that would be easy access. Last time I stopped in (over a year ago) and asked them questions about companies not issuing 1099's for "rolled over" money, they wanted company names, contact info, etc...At that time, I wasn't prepared to move forward. However with all of the shenanigans that have gone on in the high stakes arena, it's time to move forward.

If they determine it an accepted business practice (legal), I will gladly remove my characterization of it being "shady at best" and then STATS can start offering it.

If they determine the business practice is not accepted (illegal), well, then we are talking something entirely different.

Transparency is KEY. Contest owners saying the topic is not worthy of discussion likely have a hidden agenda. I wouldn't be surprised if they characterized it as "needless debate on rollover". [/QUOTE]Ugh Mark, you've been crusading against rollovers for years now. Why can't you just let this topic go already? You're drafting in 2 days.....let's focus on that!!