What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:02 am

and i am not giving them excuses or trying to buy them time.....HELL NO!!!!!!

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:10 am

Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by thegambler:
i did not get the email as of yet sure i will sometime today.

is anyone really surprised by this?

here is my guess on what is happening. the wcoff is dumping one of the old owners, and they are suppose to get a nice chunk of change in a endorsement, from a major US wide company, along with some big bucks from the MGM themselves. my guess is that both companies aren't paying out dime one until the nfl settles. why would anyone pay money, for a fantasy football league, if there is no football? so i think we all need to pray hard that somehow the nfl settles soon. otherwise i don't see anything happening for those still unpaid. No, I don't believe that is what is happening. No sponsor is covering the prizes owed. "Dumping" a majority owner doesn't solve anything. The MGM is not paying big bucks to host this event. The NFL lockout is not why customers aren't paid yet. That comes from last year's entry fees. There's a shortage somewhere, but the reasons you give above Andy are not the reasons winners haven't been paid yet. I'm sorry, but what is happening here is embarrassing to all of us in this space. The buying of extra time makes it seem like the miracle is almost done when in fact no miracle should be needed if revenue from last year's game was set aside to pay off last year's prize winners. Obviously that's where the problem lies.

I've been in this industry 22 years now and I saw Replica Corporation default on prizes when they were the biggest game around. I've seen smaller companies default. I saw AFFL and Fantasy Jungle default when I knew and trusted those owners as well. I'm hearing about Rapid Draft and SportsBuff possibly defaulting when that owner was also in the industry two decades and prominent in the FSTA. Now this?? How does this happen? It's embarrassing for our industry and we all should be concerned.

No more making excuses for the WCOFF. Dustin should explain and explain it in full. If the "transaction" is going to be done to save the WCOFF and pay off past winners, then at least that much could be announced now. If not, then give the bad news now and do all you can to still make good with last year's winners, no matter what it takes. [/QUOTE]you have to hold out some hope.....otherwise there is nothing left but to close the doors.

my question for you greg would be: if there is nothing left, no money coming in, no sponsors, no endorcements coming, then why would they paid anything at all this year? if they knew they were taking the money and stiffing everyone why pay out what they did? [/QUOTE]I'm guessing because they figured someone would come to the rescue.

All the BS about it being a "glitch", everyone would get paid, etc. was just that.....BS.

Now it appears NO ONE is coming, but as long as they have people like yourself who "hold out hope" and are willing to keep giving them money like an ATM (hence why this is secret on their "I don't have to login" boards), they can keep the jig going.

[ June 10, 2011, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:11 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:
This is like the movie "Memento" -- you already know how it's going to end, just a question of how we get there. I think it's time for a reality check now Glenn, don't you agree? Folks on other boards are saying this industry site or another could buy them and turn them around or Lenny could buy them and turn them around or this and that. Guys, it's much, much more complicated than that and let me just say that knowing what we know. Heck, we'd buy the assets and turn it around if we thought it made sense and it just doesn't.

There's a LOT of prize money owed here. Running baseball this year at a loss for a second straight year to try to compete with the NFBC was a major, major mistake. I really, really feel bad right now for all of the WCOFB members who are competing day and night in that contest and should know by now that 2010 football winners haven't been paid yet. Where does that leave the current baseball leaders now?? How do they also get paid? Dustin should address that right now too.

If Dustin has a suitor in place, GREAT. That suitor would need a lot of money to pay off all of 2010's winners plus baseball's winners and then try to retain WCOFF's players for 2011 with the current prize structure. Had Dustin been more communicative with the players during this whole process I really believe a lot of WCOFF players would understand and return in 2011, their 10th anniversary season. But sending a very sketchy email on the 45th day to some WCOFF members with no hope of resolution anytime soon??? C'mon, that's not going to lead to future business. The WCOFF's future does not look bright with today's announcement.

It's time for honest talk. But I certainly don't think it's time for anyone to alibi for Dustin or state what they think is happening. The truth needs to come from Dustin and some hint of how past winners can get paid soon needs to be addressed or else legal action will have to be taken. What else can customers do?

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:15 am

Greg, you mention you were going to the FSTA Business & Tech Summit, does the FSTA have an official stance on the happenings of GridIron Fantasy Sports? I'm on the FSTA mailing lis and haven't heard a peep from them.

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:19 am

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
[I'm guessing because they figured someone would come to the rescue.

All the BS about it being a "glitch", everyone would get paid, etc. was just that.....BS.

Now it appears NO ONE is coming, but as long as they have people like yourself who "hold out hope" and are willing to keep giving them money like an ATM (hence why this is secret on their I don't have to login boards), they can keep the jig going. how am i holding out hope? have you seen my post's the last few days? its over.....they are done. and i haven't and won't give them dime one. yeah i was stupid enough to roll over money last year but that was way before any of us knew WTF was going on.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:21 am

Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by thegambler:
[qb] you have to hold out some hope.....otherwise there is nothing left but to close the doors.

my question for you greg would be: if there is nothing left, no money coming in, no sponsors, no endorcements coming, then why would they paid anything at all this year? if they knew they were taking the money and stiffing everyone why pay out what they did? [/QUOTE]Andy, I can't speak for Dustin. I can only tell you that he was very confident that they would more than double their baseball signups and he told me and others that personally. Baseball was a major disappointment with only 128 teams and prizes based on 300+ and it was a financial loss for sure. They certainly had enough cash flow to pay some WCOFF winners and did that, but obviously at some point someone within the organization made a decision when more funds were needed that enough was enough.

Expenses have exceeded revenue, plain and simple, and the prize money wasn't set aside. Now there needs to be a cash infusion and it's a very high number. I hope Dustin finds that new partner. I know the other owners of WCOFF hopes he finds that new partner. The industry hopes he finds that new partner. I just think it's going to be very, very difficult and he obviously has admitted that now. He's talking with some potential suitors but only he can say how that is working out. If there's any positive news to be had there at all, he should relay that because everyone wants it to happen. What happens after that is of no concern to past winners.

RC Techies · Post by **RC Techies** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:22 am

Let's review the possible scenario's:

1. The money is there but can't be released for payment to the winners because of a shareholder's concerns or an accounting problem. Both are highly unlikely. In my opinion, the least likely of all possibilities.

2. The Wcoff is trying to reorganize and bring in investors to continue in business. This is a very likely scenario but I can't believe any investors are stupid enough to put money into a company that probably has substantial losses.

3. The Wcoff is trying to delay long enough for the NFL to settle the labor dispute, at which time it is counting on getting enough signups to cover past winners. In this case, we will continue to see delay's from the Wcoff until the labor dispute settles. Then we will see an announcement that they will shortly began sending out more checks.

4. The Wcoff sales its assets to another company for a small fee. All assets are transferred to the new company including the Wcoff name and the Wcoff website. The new company advertises itself out as the new Wcoff and begins to accept applications for the 2011 season. It may or may not offer some credit to the past winners that are owed by the old company. Those winners owe by the old company are simply out of luck. The new company continues with some of the present management but without any of the old companies debts. All perfectly legal. I would anticipate that the new company would see a substantial drop in enrollments, but probably get enough to continue in business.

All possibilities. So why are we left to wonder what is the real reason why the Wcoff has not paid winners? I can't understand why the Wcoff has not kept its customers informed as to what is happening unless Possibility # 3 is the answer. All of this could go away with communication from the company. I have to think the silence means the worst.

Lets hope that I am wrong and they somehow come up with the funds to pay the past winners. I actually made the remark yesterday that I was glad I lost in the Wcoff last year. Can't think of anything worst than to win and not get paid.

I know that I will not be playing in the Wcoff this year regardless of what happens. Customer service of this type doesn't deserve my business. Had this not happened, I would be sending my deposit to play. I handled a number of Chapter 11 cases. I can't imagine advising my clients to not communicate with their customers. When you lose the customers, it doesn't matter what else happens.

Just my two cents. I have no idea of what is really happening. Isn't that the real problem?

John

[ June 10, 2011, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: RC Techies ]

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:24 am

Gambler, I understand people holding out hope - especially those who have yet to be paid. You certainly want to believe you will be receiving your deserved prize winnings. Unfortunately, there really isn't any sign of hope I can see any longer. Dustin's email today was so vague and lacked detail that it seems clear that it was just another attempt to try and buy more time in an attempt to round up more capital somewhere.

You don't need to be a financial wizard to understand what's going on here. Once their baseball signups stopped, football prize winners stopped being paid. As Greg said, it's clear they no longer have the money to pay and they're trying to find it somewhere. During our transition from Fanball to STATS, there were many things we were unable to talk about publicly but Greg and I always provided indications that this was going to be resolved because we knew the resolution. We didn't disappear from the message boards and ignore attempts from our participants to communicate with us. We didn't provide constant updates because we couldn't but we provided quite a few and did everything we could to keep people updated. That wasn't a huge undertaking on our part. It simply made common sense because we knew this was going to be resolved in a way that would be beneficial for everyone, which it has been, and we didn't want people being left in the dark to speculate among themselves.

The refusal to communicate and the vague statement today and the lack of any type of deadline for when prize winners will receive their money would make it very difficult for me to have much, if any, faith if I was a WCOFF participant. What's even more troubling is they continue to take signups from people who clearly have no idea that many of last year's winners have not yet been paid. For me, that's one of the most troubling aspects of this situation. It is not business as usual and it should not be treated as such until all of last year's prize winners have the checks in their hands. Only then should WCOFF proceed and prepare for the 2011 season.

[ June 10, 2011, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:24 am

Originally posted by RedRyder:
Greg, you mention you were going to the FSTA Business & Tech Summit, does the FSTA have an official stance on the happenings of GridIron Fantasy Sports? I'm on the FSTA mailing lis and haven't heard a peep from them. do you think dustin or a rep for the wcoff even goes to the summit?

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:28 am

Greg can answer for sure but I do not believe anyone connected to the WCOFF is on the current list of attendees for next week's trade conference. They have gone to conferences in the past - I met Dustin for the first time at one a few years ago - but I'm not sure the last time they went or the WCOFF was represented at one.

[ June 10, 2011, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]