What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:28 am

Originally posted by RedRyder:
Greg, you mention you were going to the FSTA Business & Tech Summit, does the FSTA have an official stance on the happenings of GridIron Fantasy Sports? I'm on the FSTA mailing lis and haven't heard a peep from them. I hate to admit this, but the FSTA has not been actively letting consumers know about the WCOFF situation or the Rapid Draft situation or the SportsBuff situation. I think it's time for them to put up warnings on their site and I've told several board members that I think this needs to be part of the discussion in San Francisco. There is a Prizes Panel on Tuesday afternoon that is set up but not designed to talk about the WCOFF or any consumer issues about not being paid. I am going to ask questions if I have to in order to get this on the agenda. This is the biggest black eye our industry could get and it needs to be addressed by industry leaders.

I'll let everyone know what comes out of that conference because it's time to finally put a halt to non-payments. That's why we started the Fantasy Sports Players Association in 1999 and it's time to get the focus back on the players and stop babying game operators. They need to be held accountable or face legal action when they fail to pay prize winners on time. It's as simple as that.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:33 am

Originally posted by RC Techies:
Let's review the possible scenario's:

1. The money is there but can't be released for payment to the winners because of a shareholder's concerns or an accounting problem. Both are highly unlikely. In my opinion, the least likely of all possibilities.

2. The Wcoff is trying to reorganize and bring in investors to continue in business. This is a very likely scenario but I can't believe any investors are stupid enough to put money into a company that probably has substantial losses.

3. The Wcoff is trying to delay long enough for the NFL to settle the labor dispute, at which time it is counting on getting enough signups to cover past winners. In this case, we will continue to see delay's from the Wcoff until the labor dispute settles. Then we will see an announcement that they will shortly began sending out more checks.

4. The Wcoff sales its assets to another company for a small fee. All assets are transferred to the new company including the Wcoff name and the Wcoff website. The new company advertises itself out as the new Wcoff and begins to accept applications for the 2011 season. It may or may not offer some credit to the past winners that are owed by the old company. Those winners owe by the old company are simply out of luck. The new company continues with some of the present management but without any of the old companies debts. All perfectly legal. I would anticipate that the new company would see a substantial drop in enrollments, but probably get enough to continue in business.

All possibilities. So why are we left to wonder what is the real reason why the Wcoff has not paid winners? I can't understand why the Wcoff has not kept its customers informed as to what is happening unless Possibility # 3 is the answer. All of this could go away with communication from the company. I have to think the silence means the worst.

Lets hope that I am wrong and they somehow come up with the funds to pay the past winners. I actually made the remark yesterday that I was glad I lost in the Wcoff last year. Can't think of anything worst than to win and not get paid.

I know that I will not be playing in the Wcoff this year regardless of what happens. Customer service of this type doesn't deserve my business. Had this not happened, I would be sending my deposit to play. I handled a number of Chapter 11 cases. I can't imagine advising my clients to not communicate with their customers. When you lose the customers, it doesn't matter what else happens.

Just my two cents. I have no idea of what is really happening. Isn't that the real problem?

John It's definitely this one John:

2. The Wcoff is trying to reorganize and bring in investors to continue in business. This is a very likely scenario but I can't believe any investors are stupid enough to put money into a company that probably has substantial losses.

Dustin should let folks know if there's any chance of that finalizing in the next 30 days. If not, then it's very, very difficult for WCOFF to compete in this space even with new ownership. It's too late in the game. But maybe Dustin is closer to a sale of assets than we know. If he is, though, you'd think that email announcement would have been much, much stronger.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:35 am

Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by RedRyder:
Greg, you mention you were going to the FSTA Business & Tech Summit, does the FSTA have an official stance on the happenings of GridIron Fantasy Sports? I'm on the FSTA mailing lis and haven't heard a peep from them. do you think dustin or a rep for the wcoff even goes to the summit? [/QUOTE]Nobody from the WCOFF is signed up for this conference.

I'll be tweeting live from that conference, so follow me at Twitter@GregAmbrosius. You won't want to miss these tweets!!!

Look at ol' me, tweeting from San Francisco!!!!

[ June 10, 2011, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:37 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Greg can answer for sure but I do not believe anyone connected to the WCOFF is on the current list of attendees for next week's trade conference. They have gone to conferences in the past - I met Dustin for the first time at one a few years ago - but I'm not sure the last time they went or the WCOFF was represented at one. i think them showing up would be a good thing. they will take some **** but they will also be there to answer questions.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:42 am

Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Greg can answer for sure but I do not believe anyone connected to the WCOFF is on the current list of attendees for next week's trade conference. They have gone to conferences in the past - I met Dustin for the first time at one a few years ago - but I'm not sure the last time they went or the WCOFF was represented at one. i think them showing up would be a good thing. they will take some **** but they will also be there to answer questions. [/QUOTE]I can't speak for Dustin (is Jesse even involved with WCOFF at this point?) but I don't think answering questions is at the top of their current agenda. That seems to be the last thing they want to do.

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:42 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I'll let everyone know what comes out of that conference because it's time to finally put a halt to non-payments. That's why we started the Fantasy Sports Players Association in 1999 and it's time to get the focus back on the players and stop babying game operators. They need to be held accountable or face legal action when they fail to pay prize winners on time. It's as simple as that. why aren't these owners held accountable for stealing people's money? why isn't there legal action taken against them? there should be.....they are crooks. no different then robbing someone in my opinion. they might not have started with the intentions of doing it but they also knew way before anyone else that they were going to do it.

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:46 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I hate to admit this, but the FSTA has not been actively letting consumers know about the WCOFF situation or the Rapid Draft situation or the SportsBuff situation. with so many "situations" out there and in the past, maybe it's time for some regulation. innocent customers keep getting screwed.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:48 am

Gambler, your thought on the FFPC boards that Rotowire or another industry site could buy WCOFF and turn it around sounds logical, but it's probably more difficult than you realize. Again, the total prize money is very large and if the investors want to eliminate that AND get their initial investment back it's a very, very, very, very large number. No industry site is going to make that happen. Heck, you could start up a HSFF contest on your own much cheaper even if you made the grand prize $300,000. You don't need to BUY this customer list to lose money that first year with a $300,000 grand prize.

Dave's point that the NFFC didn't succeed with Rotoworld or Fanball isn't totally accurate, even though I know what he's trying to say. We did get a lot of new signups from Rotoworld, but they were more for the Online Championship than the live event. Very similar, I'm sure, to his partnership with FootballGuys.com. As for Fanball, we definitely benefitted by being able to promote the NFFC to their email list. I'd love to have that customer base to promote to again. It was very, very solid. If Tom and I could run the NFFC under STATS with that Fanball list to promote to we'd be GOLDEN!!! Charlie, let's work out a promotional deal!!

So what I'm saying is that any industry site would love to partner with a clean WCOFF or buy it on the cheap if they could. Heck, STATS would love to merge the WCOFF and NFFC together and we've inquired. Fanball inquired at one point. It would make perfect sense, but not with the liability on the books. It's a shame, but that's the situation right now. The prize money owed is preventing the WCOFF from moving forward or quite possibly finding the right suitor to make customers whole. Make sense?

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:57 am

Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I'll let everyone know what comes out of that conference because it's time to finally put a halt to non-payments. That's why we started the Fantasy Sports Players Association in 1999 and it's time to get the focus back on the players and stop babying game operators. They need to be held accountable or face legal action when they fail to pay prize winners on time. It's as simple as that. why aren't these owners held accountable for stealing people's money? why isn't there legal action taken against them? there should be.....they are crooks. no different then robbing someone in my opinion. they might not have started with the intentions of doing it but they also knew way before anyone else that they were going to do it. [/QUOTE]Completely agree, these past companies that have defaulted are crooks.

Because their companies were formed under a LLC, is that why all those owners are able to walk away scot free? Any attorney's or CPA's out there?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:58 am

Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I'll let everyone know what comes out of that conference because it's time to finally put a halt to non-payments. That's why we started the Fantasy Sports Players Association in 1999 and it's time to get the focus back on the players and stop babying game operators. They need to be held accountable or face legal action when they fail to pay prize winners on time. It's as simple as that. why aren't these owners held accountable for stealing people's money? why isn't there legal action taken against them? there should be.....they are crooks. no different then robbing someone in my opinion. they might not have started with the intentions of doing it but they also knew way before anyone else that they were going to do it. [/QUOTE]I'll defer this question to Jack Haan, who I believe is still fighting for the AFFL winner to get paid. Why haven't past game operators been held accountable for taking in hundreds of thousands of dollars that were never paid out in prizes? I don't know, but I certainly want to find out.