Originally posted by thegambler:
4D you sure have it out for the wcoff.....did dustin screw your wife or something?
for a guy that hasn't played there in a couple of years you still have a big hard on for them. Yes, I have a big problem with what they are currently doing, don't you? Or do you think it's ok to be taking signups while owing last year's winners hundreds of thousands of dollars? Especially when at this point in time there is NO partner coming in to save them. With the way you blow back and forth on the situation I can understand that it might be hard for you to see what's going on over there. I don't have that problem. And if getting info out can save one more person from sending them money before they have answers and paid everyone I think that's a good thing.
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
You'll be fine long as your pretty face holds out, then it's gonna get pretty cold out...
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thegambler
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:00 pm
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by 4D:
quote:Originally posted by thegambler:
4D you sure have it out for the wcoff.....did dustin screw your wife or something?
for a guy that hasn't played there in a couple of years you still have a big hard on for them. Yes, I have a big problem with what they are currently doing, don't you? Or do you think it's ok to be taking signups while owing last year's winners hundreds of thousands of dollars? Especially when at this point in time there is NO partner coming in to save them. With the way you blow back and forth on the situation I can understand that it might be hard for you to see what's going on over there. I don't have that problem. And if getting info out can save one more person from sending them money before they have answers and paid everyone I think that's a good thing. [/QUOTE]no blowing back and forth.....i think what they are doing is criminal. hopefully people get their money, including me.
it seems very odd to me that you have the biggest voice on the matter and you don't play there anymore. protecting people is great and i applaud you for that but you seem to go above and beyond to do that.
just seems odd to me....thats all i am saying.
you seem to have some kind of personal vendetta against the wcoff and defintley against dustin
[ June 14, 2011, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: thegambler ]
quote:Originally posted by thegambler:
4D you sure have it out for the wcoff.....did dustin screw your wife or something?
for a guy that hasn't played there in a couple of years you still have a big hard on for them. Yes, I have a big problem with what they are currently doing, don't you? Or do you think it's ok to be taking signups while owing last year's winners hundreds of thousands of dollars? Especially when at this point in time there is NO partner coming in to save them. With the way you blow back and forth on the situation I can understand that it might be hard for you to see what's going on over there. I don't have that problem. And if getting info out can save one more person from sending them money before they have answers and paid everyone I think that's a good thing. [/QUOTE]no blowing back and forth.....i think what they are doing is criminal. hopefully people get their money, including me.
it seems very odd to me that you have the biggest voice on the matter and you don't play there anymore. protecting people is great and i applaud you for that but you seem to go above and beyond to do that.
just seems odd to me....thats all i am saying.
you seem to have some kind of personal vendetta against the wcoff and defintley against dustin
[ June 14, 2011, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: thegambler ]
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36419
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
The FSTA Trade Conference seminars wrapped up here today and all in all it was an informative conference. You had solid guest speakers from Facebook, Yahoo and the tech community here for new perspectives on our fantasy sports industry. The latest Ipsos survey showed that the number of fantasy sports participants grew by more than 10% again in the last year, resulting in more than 32 million adult fantasy players. And it's always great to hang out with industry friends like NBC's Rick Wolf, ESPN's Matt Berry, Yahoo's Brandon Funston, NFL.com's Mike "Fabs" Fabiano, Rotowire's Peter Schoenke, CDM's Charlie Wiegert, Sirius's Ray Flowers and other good guys. Great group of industry friends here.
The conference was very good and there are a lot of promotional opportunities that the NFFC and NFBC will get out of meetings today. We're hooking up with good partners to spread the word for us and with us. Look for those announcements coming up soon.
But I'd be remiss if I didn't say I was disappointed with the Prizes Panel today. It was an informative panel for new companies looking to set competitive prize structures, but it went so long that no discussion was presented on the ills of our prizes in the industry. There wasn't even a chance for questions from the audience as we just moved onto the next panel. I was very surprised by this because our industry seems to act as if we don't have a problem on our hands when in fact we may have a major problem that will resonate throughout the industry. But there was no mention of any of that today.
I've stated my mind to people on the FSTA board and I've even presented some ideas that I thought could help make the high-stakes games more transparent to consumers with the help of the association, but those ideas were not accepted. I'll likely present them to the FPA now and see if they want to be the advocacy group and help all contests report simple facts to them instead. I think it will work with the FPA and I will be in contact with Scott soon.
I've learned more about the latest situation and will do like everyone else and wait for some answers. I trust more will come to the surface soon. Let's hope for the best because the consumers deserve to be paid in full by every contest in this space.
The conference was very good and there are a lot of promotional opportunities that the NFFC and NFBC will get out of meetings today. We're hooking up with good partners to spread the word for us and with us. Look for those announcements coming up soon.
But I'd be remiss if I didn't say I was disappointed with the Prizes Panel today. It was an informative panel for new companies looking to set competitive prize structures, but it went so long that no discussion was presented on the ills of our prizes in the industry. There wasn't even a chance for questions from the audience as we just moved onto the next panel. I was very surprised by this because our industry seems to act as if we don't have a problem on our hands when in fact we may have a major problem that will resonate throughout the industry. But there was no mention of any of that today.
I've stated my mind to people on the FSTA board and I've even presented some ideas that I thought could help make the high-stakes games more transparent to consumers with the help of the association, but those ideas were not accepted. I'll likely present them to the FPA now and see if they want to be the advocacy group and help all contests report simple facts to them instead. I think it will work with the FPA and I will be in contact with Scott soon.
I've learned more about the latest situation and will do like everyone else and wait for some answers. I trust more will come to the surface soon. Let's hope for the best because the consumers deserve to be paid in full by every contest in this space.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36419
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Oh, I forgot to mention that it was also good to see David Dodds of FootballGuys.com today and also get a chance to shake hands and clear up any misgivings we had together. We go back a long way and we sure had a lot of good working days together on the FBG magazines, so I certainly didn't want what happened last year to get in our way of continuing as friends. He's a good guy and an industry leader and whatever dispute we had last year is over. We wish FBG all the best again this year and I'm glad to be back on track with him and Joe. Best this year guys.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by 4D:
quote:Originally posted by thegambler:
4D you sure have it out for the wcoff.....did dustin screw your wife or something?
for a guy that hasn't played there in a couple of years you still have a big hard on for them. Yes, I have a big problem with what they are currently doing, don't you? Or do you think it's ok to be taking signups while owing last year's winners hundreds of thousands of dollars? Especially when at this point in time there is NO partner coming in to save them. With the way you blow back and forth on the situation I can understand that it might be hard for you to see what's going on over there. I don't have that problem. And if getting info out can save one more person from sending them money before they have answers and paid everyone I think that's a good thing. [/QUOTE]no blowing back and forth.....i think what they are doing is criminal. hopefully people get their money, including me.
it seems very odd to me that you have the biggest voice on the matter and you don't play there anymore. protecting people is great and i applaud you for that but you seem to go above and beyond to do that.
just seems odd to me....thats all i am saying.
you seem to have some kind of personal vendetta against the wcoff and defintley against dustin [/QUOTE]Maybe you think it's above and beyond though it may just seem that way due to nothing being said by the one person who should be talking to his customers and those waiting for their money.
quote:Originally posted by 4D:
quote:Originally posted by thegambler:
4D you sure have it out for the wcoff.....did dustin screw your wife or something?
for a guy that hasn't played there in a couple of years you still have a big hard on for them. Yes, I have a big problem with what they are currently doing, don't you? Or do you think it's ok to be taking signups while owing last year's winners hundreds of thousands of dollars? Especially when at this point in time there is NO partner coming in to save them. With the way you blow back and forth on the situation I can understand that it might be hard for you to see what's going on over there. I don't have that problem. And if getting info out can save one more person from sending them money before they have answers and paid everyone I think that's a good thing. [/QUOTE]no blowing back and forth.....i think what they are doing is criminal. hopefully people get their money, including me.
it seems very odd to me that you have the biggest voice on the matter and you don't play there anymore. protecting people is great and i applaud you for that but you seem to go above and beyond to do that.
just seems odd to me....thats all i am saying.
you seem to have some kind of personal vendetta against the wcoff and defintley against dustin [/QUOTE]Maybe you think it's above and beyond though it may just seem that way due to nothing being said by the one person who should be talking to his customers and those waiting for their money.
You'll be fine long as your pretty face holds out, then it's gonna get pretty cold out...
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
greg and others,
with all that has happened this year in high stakes leagues, do you feel as a business model there is room for two high stakes league to grow and be successful?
i am thinking no.. i actually thought that the wcoff and nffc should have merged all along, but that of course never happened.
it did seem that there were enough players to go around but with the transactions that have happened this year i don't think there is.
i wish the other site and this one would work out a deal and merge and we would have the best of both worlds.
with all that has happened this year in high stakes leagues, do you feel as a business model there is room for two high stakes league to grow and be successful?
i am thinking no.. i actually thought that the wcoff and nffc should have merged all along, but that of course never happened.
it did seem that there were enough players to go around but with the transactions that have happened this year i don't think there is.
i wish the other site and this one would work out a deal and merge and we would have the best of both worlds.
its nice to be the master
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36419
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by fflmaster:
greg and others,
with all that has happened this year in high stakes leagues, do you feel as a business model there is room for two high stakes league to grow and be successful?
i am thinking no.. i actually thought that the wcoff and nffc should have merged all along, but that of course never happened.
it did seem that there were enough players to go around but with the transactions that have happened this year i don't think there is.
i wish the other site and this one would work out a deal and merge and we would have the best of both worlds. Of course there's room for multiple contests in any segment of business. Show me any business where there is only ONE entity and I'll show you a monopoly (okay, NFL qualifies!!). Every business has competition and competition is good for the consumer. Listen, consumers are definitely getting hurt in this space by multiple game operators and that's a crying shame. Consumers now have to really look at any pay contest before signing up and do their homework on the game operators.
That being said, competition has also benefitted consumers in many ways. Some contests don't make you stay at their hotel, possibly saving you money. Prize payouts have increased for consumers thanks to competition. The level of hospitality at the live events has increased thanks to competition. Bringing in new and better players has increased because of competition. Exposure of this segment of the industry has increased because of competition. You could go on and on. Competition will continue to make this space better.
Had the NFFC and WCOFF merged at one point I agree it would have been a very good partnership from a consumer standpoint because we had different game formats, different weekends, many different options. But we never went down that path for a number of reasons, both in 2002, before Fanball and even last year when I bought the NFFC & NFBC back. It never got close to that point, but I hear what you're saying from a consumers' point of view.
There are more than enough players at this level who want to play in a good, fair, well-run contest and that's without dispute. Now the key is having a sound business plan that whatever number you want to reach for prize payouts you reach your goal. The problem here is overstating your goals and then scrambling after that. You just can't do that. We would love to give out a $300,000 grand prize, but we are keeping our goals modest for every event and assuring ourselves that we'll finish with positive net revenue and enough prize money on hand to distribute it immediately. That's why the highest stated prize pool isn't necessarily the guaranteed best.
There's no need for two contests to merge at this point because you think there aren't enough players to make both successful. That's just crazy. There are plenty of people left in this space who want a good contest that guarantees prizes and pays on time. We will provide that and the prize pool will grow to their expectations. This is a great, great area of our industry and it's quite possibly the fastest growing area of the pay models. Even with everything that has happened, I think this space will have an incredibly successful season and the players who do decide to trust us in 2011 will be very, very, very happy with their draft experience, with their in-season experience and with their cashing our checks experience.
That much I know.
greg and others,
with all that has happened this year in high stakes leagues, do you feel as a business model there is room for two high stakes league to grow and be successful?
i am thinking no.. i actually thought that the wcoff and nffc should have merged all along, but that of course never happened.
it did seem that there were enough players to go around but with the transactions that have happened this year i don't think there is.
i wish the other site and this one would work out a deal and merge and we would have the best of both worlds. Of course there's room for multiple contests in any segment of business. Show me any business where there is only ONE entity and I'll show you a monopoly (okay, NFL qualifies!!). Every business has competition and competition is good for the consumer. Listen, consumers are definitely getting hurt in this space by multiple game operators and that's a crying shame. Consumers now have to really look at any pay contest before signing up and do their homework on the game operators.
That being said, competition has also benefitted consumers in many ways. Some contests don't make you stay at their hotel, possibly saving you money. Prize payouts have increased for consumers thanks to competition. The level of hospitality at the live events has increased thanks to competition. Bringing in new and better players has increased because of competition. Exposure of this segment of the industry has increased because of competition. You could go on and on. Competition will continue to make this space better.
Had the NFFC and WCOFF merged at one point I agree it would have been a very good partnership from a consumer standpoint because we had different game formats, different weekends, many different options. But we never went down that path for a number of reasons, both in 2002, before Fanball and even last year when I bought the NFFC & NFBC back. It never got close to that point, but I hear what you're saying from a consumers' point of view.
There are more than enough players at this level who want to play in a good, fair, well-run contest and that's without dispute. Now the key is having a sound business plan that whatever number you want to reach for prize payouts you reach your goal. The problem here is overstating your goals and then scrambling after that. You just can't do that. We would love to give out a $300,000 grand prize, but we are keeping our goals modest for every event and assuring ourselves that we'll finish with positive net revenue and enough prize money on hand to distribute it immediately. That's why the highest stated prize pool isn't necessarily the guaranteed best.
There's no need for two contests to merge at this point because you think there aren't enough players to make both successful. That's just crazy. There are plenty of people left in this space who want a good contest that guarantees prizes and pays on time. We will provide that and the prize pool will grow to their expectations. This is a great, great area of our industry and it's quite possibly the fastest growing area of the pay models. Even with everything that has happened, I think this space will have an incredibly successful season and the players who do decide to trust us in 2011 will be very, very, very happy with their draft experience, with their in-season experience and with their cashing our checks experience.
That much I know.Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
I hope both places succeed. Forget the wcoff there done.
I can't wait to try the new sites as soon as the NFL signs the labor deal.
Can't wait to see all the signups after they announce the agreement.
I can't wait to try the new sites as soon as the NFL signs the labor deal.
Can't wait to see all the signups after they announce the agreement.
its nice to be the master
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36419
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by fflmaster:
I hope both places succeed. Forget the wcoff there done.
I can't wait to try the new sites as soon as the NFL signs the labor deal.
Can't wait to see all the signups after they announce the agreement. We'll see how it all plays out, but again I'm hoping for the best for those players who are still owed prize money. For anyone looking to try out the NFFC, we'll have plenty of satellite league offerings in advance of the live events, including our NFFC '60s where you can compete at just $60 per team. It's a great way to jump into the competition and get your Draft Sheets perfected.
And I do agree with you: The signups will roll in once the lockout is ended. I am not even concerned about them now because if I were a player I would wait until the season is guaranteed before signing up too. But if a deal is finished by early July, you will see great interest in the NFL as the free agent signings will be compacted and fun to watch. That will lead right into training camp, right into pre-season games and then into the Live Drafts and the NFL season. I think you'll see a rush of entries and interest in the NFFC like you've never seen before. I'm excited and very optimistic about the future of this space despite what has happened in recent years.
I hope both places succeed. Forget the wcoff there done.
I can't wait to try the new sites as soon as the NFL signs the labor deal.
Can't wait to see all the signups after they announce the agreement. We'll see how it all plays out, but again I'm hoping for the best for those players who are still owed prize money. For anyone looking to try out the NFFC, we'll have plenty of satellite league offerings in advance of the live events, including our NFFC '60s where you can compete at just $60 per team. It's a great way to jump into the competition and get your Draft Sheets perfected.
And I do agree with you: The signups will roll in once the lockout is ended. I am not even concerned about them now because if I were a player I would wait until the season is guaranteed before signing up too. But if a deal is finished by early July, you will see great interest in the NFL as the free agent signings will be compacted and fun to watch. That will lead right into training camp, right into pre-season games and then into the Live Drafts and the NFL season. I think you'll see a rush of entries and interest in the NFFC like you've never seen before. I'm excited and very optimistic about the future of this space despite what has happened in recent years.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Team Legacy
- Posts: 729
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
- Location: Indianapolis
- Contact:
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Below is an email that was sent on behalf of the fantasy player community to Mr. Ashby and the WCOFF earlier this afternoon.
The Fantasy Players Association
317-883-9338
June 16, 2011
Re: Formal demands from the FPA
Email Delivery
Personal
Attention Mr. Dustin Ashby
WCOFF: The Players Have Spoken
Mr. Dustin Ashby,
It is June 16th, 2011 and the fantasy player community is still in turmoil over issues concerning the WCOFF. The 2010 prize winners have still not been completely paid and the lack of definitive information coming from ownership during this time is unacceptable.
During the past several months, the FPA has been contacted by dozens of players asking for help or information about their unpaid prize awards. The high stakes fantasy community has been completely shaken up due to the fears and frustration surrounding the current situation. While it is impossible to determine the exact amount of unpaid prizes owed, due to the lack of information coming from the WCOFF, this number is likely exceeding several hundred thousand dollars and maybe much more. It is on behalf of all unpaid prize winners and past and present customers of WCOFF who are left grasping for answers, that the FPA must demand a response from the WCOFF.
I have met with the board members of the FPA, who are all fantasy players themselves, and we have reached the following conclusion. It is time to make a formal request of the WCOFF and Dustin Ashby.
On behalf of the fantasy player community, we formally request the WCOFF to provide a complete and thorough explanation of the current state of the WCOFF as well as evidence documentation of the current transaction, which is supposedly underway. We challenge the WCOFF and Mr. Ashby to prove to its unpaid prize winners that the prize moneys owed are available, whether in an account controlled by the WCOFF or by attorney escrow. Please note, we are not asking for a deadline or a timeframe; these have already been promised and have since come and gone. What the players need now is proof of this alleged transaction and most importantly, proof of the existence of the prize pool, which Mr. Ashby has continued to verbally claim is in existence. It is now mid-June and the players deserve an explanation.
This request is straightforward as we are simply asking for proof of what has already been stated by the WCOFF and Mr. Ashby as fact. We feel that the failure to honor this simple request will be a sign of disrespect and contempt for WCOFF customers, as well as the entire fantasy community. If indeed there are legal reasons concerning the dissemination of this information, then providing to the FPA, the name of the appropriate attorney that we can direct questions towards, would be only fair. Failure to disclose the requested information may also be interpreted as proof that this evidence is non-existent. The FPA strongly urges you Mr. Ashby to respond to this request in an effort to restore some credibility to the organization known as the WCOFF.
Sincerely,
Scott Atkins
President
Fantasy Players Association
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A few hours later, Dustin replied:
Scott -
Respectfully, the World Championship of Fantasy Football will not be responding to demands from any association. It has, and will continue to, respond in a manner as deemed appropriate by company counsel to the players who are currently awaiting the awards process to resume as we work through a transaction involving ownership of the World Championship of Fantasy Sports.
Best Regards,
Dustin Ashby
World Championship of Fantasy Sports
623 Timber Creek Trail
O'Fallon, MO 63368
636-728-1118 (Office)
http://www.wcofs.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wanted to keep you posted. An FPA statement is soon to follow.
The Fantasy Players Association
317-883-9338
June 16, 2011
Re: Formal demands from the FPA
Email Delivery
Personal
Attention Mr. Dustin Ashby
WCOFF: The Players Have Spoken
Mr. Dustin Ashby,
It is June 16th, 2011 and the fantasy player community is still in turmoil over issues concerning the WCOFF. The 2010 prize winners have still not been completely paid and the lack of definitive information coming from ownership during this time is unacceptable.
During the past several months, the FPA has been contacted by dozens of players asking for help or information about their unpaid prize awards. The high stakes fantasy community has been completely shaken up due to the fears and frustration surrounding the current situation. While it is impossible to determine the exact amount of unpaid prizes owed, due to the lack of information coming from the WCOFF, this number is likely exceeding several hundred thousand dollars and maybe much more. It is on behalf of all unpaid prize winners and past and present customers of WCOFF who are left grasping for answers, that the FPA must demand a response from the WCOFF.
I have met with the board members of the FPA, who are all fantasy players themselves, and we have reached the following conclusion. It is time to make a formal request of the WCOFF and Dustin Ashby.
On behalf of the fantasy player community, we formally request the WCOFF to provide a complete and thorough explanation of the current state of the WCOFF as well as evidence documentation of the current transaction, which is supposedly underway. We challenge the WCOFF and Mr. Ashby to prove to its unpaid prize winners that the prize moneys owed are available, whether in an account controlled by the WCOFF or by attorney escrow. Please note, we are not asking for a deadline or a timeframe; these have already been promised and have since come and gone. What the players need now is proof of this alleged transaction and most importantly, proof of the existence of the prize pool, which Mr. Ashby has continued to verbally claim is in existence. It is now mid-June and the players deserve an explanation.
This request is straightforward as we are simply asking for proof of what has already been stated by the WCOFF and Mr. Ashby as fact. We feel that the failure to honor this simple request will be a sign of disrespect and contempt for WCOFF customers, as well as the entire fantasy community. If indeed there are legal reasons concerning the dissemination of this information, then providing to the FPA, the name of the appropriate attorney that we can direct questions towards, would be only fair. Failure to disclose the requested information may also be interpreted as proof that this evidence is non-existent. The FPA strongly urges you Mr. Ashby to respond to this request in an effort to restore some credibility to the organization known as the WCOFF.
Sincerely,
Scott Atkins
President
Fantasy Players Association
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A few hours later, Dustin replied:
Scott -
Respectfully, the World Championship of Fantasy Football will not be responding to demands from any association. It has, and will continue to, respond in a manner as deemed appropriate by company counsel to the players who are currently awaiting the awards process to resume as we work through a transaction involving ownership of the World Championship of Fantasy Sports.
Best Regards,
Dustin Ashby
World Championship of Fantasy Sports
623 Timber Creek Trail
O'Fallon, MO 63368
636-728-1118 (Office)
http://www.wcofs.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wanted to keep you posted. An FPA statement is soon to follow.
Twitter: @ScottFantasy