What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
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What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by thegambler:
greg, you have to relize that the guys that play in the ffpc are beyond dedicated to them.....it is almost like an allegiance and devotion to them. not taking a shot at alex or the ffpc but that is what it is.
its not alex's or the ffpc's fault that people go out of their way to defend them. i am sure you guys wish you had players like that....
not all of their players are that way but there are some that treat it like a cult.....i think it is pretty funny. i call them lackeys.
i could use a couple of them..... Loyalty is a good thing, so I'm not knocking it. Heck. it's been said many times that our guys are too loyal to us and would never say a bad word about the NFFC, although that was before the Fanball days. But I hear ya on the other front and would have to agree with ya.
I think Tom and I just see things a little differently in this space and maybe it's because at one time we were the "newcomer" to the 800-pound gorilla. We never entered the high-stakes space to be direct competitors to the WCOFF, but we were seen as that in 2004. Instead, we felt we could fill the void in baseball with a first class, multi-city event and in football we felt again that we could do New York, Chicago and Las Vegas with a unique 14-team live event that nobody else was offering. By 2005 I think even Lenny felt that the space was big enough for two good contests/live events and both of us grew the market through 2007.
The market continues to grow, but we've seen a real change in the business side of things since then. Too many shaky business plans and outrageous prize structures that honestly if any consumer was truthful with themselves they knew that something bad could happen there. And it did, many times. And no one should be totally surprised.
So now you still have a growing area of the market with proven contests and yet there's still this territorial mentality on the part of some. I'm just telling you we're not part of that game. We believe you can be loyal to one game and still love ours. You can play with Charlie Wiegert and FFPC and NFFC and Yahoo and all the rest and not offend us at all. This is a HUGE market and HSFF has such a small part of it that expanding this area of the market can still be done without game operators or customers taking shots at each other. Again, I think this is really the only area of our industry that does that and I don't understand why.
We want everyone to play in the NFFC because we think we run a first class contest and we definitely know how to run live events in multiple cities. And you're DEFINITELY going to get paid by us. Of all the things I have to worry about now with STATS, getting paid by a company co-owned by Rupert Murdoch (okay, News Corp) and the Associated Press is the least of my worries. As I said in an email to someone else today, first of all the NFBC and NFFC have been profitable every sport of every year since 2005 and there is enough cash in reserve at STATS and at the parent companies to cover any shortfall we could ever have. But we're not going to get there because we don't have extravagant grand prizes that will ever get us to borrow from the parent company to cover expenses. Our guaranteed prizes aren't over the top and our event expenses can be managed, plus we own the software, so that expense is now gone. We are in great shape from an operation standpoint; in fact, the best we've ever been since we started this in 2004.
Loyalty is a good thing. God Bless their loyal customers and may they expand their participation horizons.
greg, you have to relize that the guys that play in the ffpc are beyond dedicated to them.....it is almost like an allegiance and devotion to them. not taking a shot at alex or the ffpc but that is what it is.
its not alex's or the ffpc's fault that people go out of their way to defend them. i am sure you guys wish you had players like that....
not all of their players are that way but there are some that treat it like a cult.....i think it is pretty funny. i call them lackeys.
i could use a couple of them..... Loyalty is a good thing, so I'm not knocking it. Heck. it's been said many times that our guys are too loyal to us and would never say a bad word about the NFFC, although that was before the Fanball days. But I hear ya on the other front and would have to agree with ya.
I think Tom and I just see things a little differently in this space and maybe it's because at one time we were the "newcomer" to the 800-pound gorilla. We never entered the high-stakes space to be direct competitors to the WCOFF, but we were seen as that in 2004. Instead, we felt we could fill the void in baseball with a first class, multi-city event and in football we felt again that we could do New York, Chicago and Las Vegas with a unique 14-team live event that nobody else was offering. By 2005 I think even Lenny felt that the space was big enough for two good contests/live events and both of us grew the market through 2007.
The market continues to grow, but we've seen a real change in the business side of things since then. Too many shaky business plans and outrageous prize structures that honestly if any consumer was truthful with themselves they knew that something bad could happen there. And it did, many times. And no one should be totally surprised.
So now you still have a growing area of the market with proven contests and yet there's still this territorial mentality on the part of some. I'm just telling you we're not part of that game. We believe you can be loyal to one game and still love ours. You can play with Charlie Wiegert and FFPC and NFFC and Yahoo and all the rest and not offend us at all. This is a HUGE market and HSFF has such a small part of it that expanding this area of the market can still be done without game operators or customers taking shots at each other. Again, I think this is really the only area of our industry that does that and I don't understand why.
We want everyone to play in the NFFC because we think we run a first class contest and we definitely know how to run live events in multiple cities. And you're DEFINITELY going to get paid by us. Of all the things I have to worry about now with STATS, getting paid by a company co-owned by Rupert Murdoch (okay, News Corp) and the Associated Press is the least of my worries. As I said in an email to someone else today, first of all the NFBC and NFFC have been profitable every sport of every year since 2005 and there is enough cash in reserve at STATS and at the parent companies to cover any shortfall we could ever have. But we're not going to get there because we don't have extravagant grand prizes that will ever get us to borrow from the parent company to cover expenses. Our guaranteed prizes aren't over the top and our event expenses can be managed, plus we own the software, so that expense is now gone. We are in great shape from an operation standpoint; in fact, the best we've ever been since we started this in 2004.
Loyalty is a good thing. God Bless their loyal customers and may they expand their participation horizons.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
- Tom Kessenich
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What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
There's nothing wrong in my opinion with people defending or being loyal to a particular event they like. That's what you would expect. If someone produces a quality game and people enjoy it and it stands the test of time, then you're going to see that loyalty grow. That's only natural.
For me, I think the key is to make sure that whenever discussions of particular events come into play that the facts are clearly presented and not rumors, innuendo or blatant untruths. We've seen far too much of that in this space in the last couple of years. When rumors or untruths are presented as facts, that's when the discussions tend to go south and lose any sense of meaning or validity.
That's one of the reasons why we created the information below:
http://nffcboards.stats.com/cgi-bin/ult ... 1;t=006385
We believe it's important for people to be educated on all of the games in this space. We're confident in what we have to offer so we believe if people check us out, they'll like the format, our strong customer service and everything else and stay with us. That's one of the reasons why we've had such a high retention rate for all of our events over the years.
So loyalty and passion toward one game or more is great. That's what is going to make this industry thrive even more in the years to come. Hopefully, one of the positives to emerge from the current situation involving the high-stakes industry is more facts and information are being presented so consumers can make educated choices and play in the games they love without worrying about anything other than who to draft, who to pick up and who to start each week.
For me, I think the key is to make sure that whenever discussions of particular events come into play that the facts are clearly presented and not rumors, innuendo or blatant untruths. We've seen far too much of that in this space in the last couple of years. When rumors or untruths are presented as facts, that's when the discussions tend to go south and lose any sense of meaning or validity.
That's one of the reasons why we created the information below:
http://nffcboards.stats.com/cgi-bin/ult ... 1;t=006385
We believe it's important for people to be educated on all of the games in this space. We're confident in what we have to offer so we believe if people check us out, they'll like the format, our strong customer service and everything else and stay with us. That's one of the reasons why we've had such a high retention rate for all of our events over the years.
So loyalty and passion toward one game or more is great. That's what is going to make this industry thrive even more in the years to come. Hopefully, one of the positives to emerge from the current situation involving the high-stakes industry is more facts and information are being presented so consumers can make educated choices and play in the games they love without worrying about anything other than who to draft, who to pick up and who to start each week.
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
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What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by The Yellow Line is Unofficial:
quote:Originally posted by thegambler:
greg, you have to relize that the guys that play in the ffpc are beyond dedicated to them.....it is almost like an allegiance and devotion to them. not taking a shot at alex or the ffpc but that is what it is.
its not alex's or the ffpc's fault that people go out of their way to defend them. i am sure you guys wish you had players like that....
not all of their players are that way but there are some that treat it like a cult.....i think it is pretty funny. i call them lackeys.
i could use a couple of them..... Do you mean in the same way you defended the WCOFF for years? [/QUOTE]exactly.....well maybe not as bad as some of you guys
but the difference is: i only defended them when someone was talking trash about them, i don't see anyone doing that here.
[ June 30, 2011, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: thegambler ]
quote:Originally posted by thegambler:
greg, you have to relize that the guys that play in the ffpc are beyond dedicated to them.....it is almost like an allegiance and devotion to them. not taking a shot at alex or the ffpc but that is what it is.
its not alex's or the ffpc's fault that people go out of their way to defend them. i am sure you guys wish you had players like that....
not all of their players are that way but there are some that treat it like a cult.....i think it is pretty funny. i call them lackeys.
i could use a couple of them..... Do you mean in the same way you defended the WCOFF for years? [/QUOTE]exactly.....well maybe not as bad as some of you guys
but the difference is: i only defended them when someone was talking trash about them, i don't see anyone doing that here.
[ June 30, 2011, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: thegambler ]
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What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
One of the things I have liked about the FFPC, is something that I see on these boards as well. You can come on these boards and post what you like more about one event than another and not only will your post not get deleted, not only will you not get banned, but ownership will respond to the player desires.
Its called customer service. I have experenced it first hand at the FFPC, and heard about it here for a number of years. Its no wonder these two events will be the last two standing in the high stakes arena.
Its called customer service. I have experenced it first hand at the FFPC, and heard about it here for a number of years. Its no wonder these two events will be the last two standing in the high stakes arena.
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by The Yellow Line is Unofficial:
One of the things I have liked about the FFPC, is something that I see on these boards as well. You can come on these boards and post what you like more about one event than another and not only will your post not get deleted, not only will you not get banned, but ownership will respond to the player desires.
Its called customer service. I have experenced it first hand at the FFPC, and heard about it here for a number of years. Its no wonder these two events will be the last two standing in the high stakes arena. "LIKE"
One of the things I have liked about the FFPC, is something that I see on these boards as well. You can come on these boards and post what you like more about one event than another and not only will your post not get deleted, not only will you not get banned, but ownership will respond to the player desires.
Its called customer service. I have experenced it first hand at the FFPC, and heard about it here for a number of years. Its no wonder these two events will be the last two standing in the high stakes arena. "LIKE"
*Ranked #1 Average Fantasy Football Player in the Nation 2004-2013
"Fantasy sports are all about LUCK. Except when I win."
"Fantasy sports are all about LUCK. Except when I win."
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by The Yellow Line is Unofficial:
One of the things I have liked about the FFPC, is something that I see on these boards as well. You can come on these boards and post what you like more about one event than another and not only will your post not get deleted, not only will you not get banned, but ownership will respond to the player desires.
Funny you mention this. I've had a different experience in this regard. Alex from the FFPC saw something I posted on the NFFC boards, didn't like it, and PM'd me through the FFPC boards. He said if I wanted to play in any FFPC events this year, he'd ask me to retract what I wrote on the NFFC boards.
IMO the guy overstepped his bounds by threatening me into changing my post on the NFFC boards. In talking to other players, I found out this isn't the first time he asked someone to change a post. Guy uses some shady business practices IMO. Hence, I'm only playing the NFFC this year.
One of the things I have liked about the FFPC, is something that I see on these boards as well. You can come on these boards and post what you like more about one event than another and not only will your post not get deleted, not only will you not get banned, but ownership will respond to the player desires.
Funny you mention this. I've had a different experience in this regard. Alex from the FFPC saw something I posted on the NFFC boards, didn't like it, and PM'd me through the FFPC boards. He said if I wanted to play in any FFPC events this year, he'd ask me to retract what I wrote on the NFFC boards.
IMO the guy overstepped his bounds by threatening me into changing my post on the NFFC boards. In talking to other players, I found out this isn't the first time he asked someone to change a post. Guy uses some shady business practices IMO. Hence, I'm only playing the NFFC this year.
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Well you have no other choice though, right?
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by Baker Boy:
Well you have no other choice though, right? When the owner of a fantasy site is arrogant enough to threaten me into changing my post(instead of asking nicely or just saying he didn't appreciate my post), I choose not to do business with him (ffpc in this case).
Well you have no other choice though, right? When the owner of a fantasy site is arrogant enough to threaten me into changing my post(instead of asking nicely or just saying he didn't appreciate my post), I choose not to do business with him (ffpc in this case).
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What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by DoubleG:
quote:Originally posted by The Yellow Line is Unofficial:
One of the things I have liked about the FFPC, is something that I see on these boards as well. You can come on these boards and post what you like more about one event than another and not only will your post not get deleted, not only will you not get banned, but ownership will respond to the player desires.
Funny you mention this. I've had a different experience in this regard. Alex from the FFPC saw something I posted on the NFFC boards, didn't like it, and PM'd me through the FFPC boards. He said if I wanted to play in any FFPC events this year, he'd ask me to retract what I wrote on the NFFC boards.
IMO the guy overstepped his bounds by threatening me into changing my post on the NFFC boards. In talking to other players, I found out this isn't the first time he asked someone to change a post. Guy uses some shady business practices IMO. Hence, I'm only playing the NFFC this year. [/QUOTE]I don't agree with what he did and I would never do it. Your point about rollovers not being totally transparent or legal was your opinion and continues to be a worthy discussion. To be "banned" from another contest for making that point on the NFFC boards shows a more controlling management style than I would ever consider. But to each his own.
I know for a fact that you were going to play over there this year and in the NFFC. Now I alone have to put up with you this year!!! But I'll gladly do it and I have a feeling we'll have some fun in Sin City on the second weekend. Welcome back to the NFFC!
I'll admit that I read all of the Message Boards in the HSFF community. We all should. I don't like everything that is said about us, but hey, that's what public forums are for. If I did what Alex did then Lance would never return to the NFBC or NFFC!! Thankfully we have thicker skin than that.
quote:Originally posted by The Yellow Line is Unofficial:
One of the things I have liked about the FFPC, is something that I see on these boards as well. You can come on these boards and post what you like more about one event than another and not only will your post not get deleted, not only will you not get banned, but ownership will respond to the player desires.
Funny you mention this. I've had a different experience in this regard. Alex from the FFPC saw something I posted on the NFFC boards, didn't like it, and PM'd me through the FFPC boards. He said if I wanted to play in any FFPC events this year, he'd ask me to retract what I wrote on the NFFC boards.
IMO the guy overstepped his bounds by threatening me into changing my post on the NFFC boards. In talking to other players, I found out this isn't the first time he asked someone to change a post. Guy uses some shady business practices IMO. Hence, I'm only playing the NFFC this year. [/QUOTE]I don't agree with what he did and I would never do it. Your point about rollovers not being totally transparent or legal was your opinion and continues to be a worthy discussion. To be "banned" from another contest for making that point on the NFFC boards shows a more controlling management style than I would ever consider. But to each his own.
I know for a fact that you were going to play over there this year and in the NFFC. Now I alone have to put up with you this year!!! But I'll gladly do it and I have a feeling we'll have some fun in Sin City on the second weekend. Welcome back to the NFFC!
I'll admit that I read all of the Message Boards in the HSFF community. We all should. I don't like everything that is said about us, but hey, that's what public forums are for. If I did what Alex did then Lance would never return to the NFBC or NFFC!! Thankfully we have thicker skin than that.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by DoubleG:
quote:Originally posted by The Yellow Line is Unofficial:
One of the things I have liked about the FFPC, is something that I see on these boards as well. You can come on these boards and post what you like more about one event than another and not only will your post not get deleted, not only will you not get banned, but ownership will respond to the player desires.
Funny you mention this. I've had a different experience in this regard. Alex from the FFPC saw something I posted on the NFFC boards, didn't like it, and PM'd me through the FFPC boards. He said if I wanted to play in any FFPC events this year, he'd ask me to retract what I wrote on the NFFC boards.
IMO the guy overstepped his bounds by threatening me into changing my post on the NFFC boards. In talking to other players, I found out this isn't the first time he asked someone to change a post. Guy uses some shady business practices IMO. Hence, I'm only playing the NFFC this year. [/QUOTE]I don't agree with what he did and I would never do it. Your point about rollovers not being totally transparent or legal was your opinion and continues to be a worthy discussion. To be "banned" from another contest for making that point on the NFFC boards shows a more controlling management style than I would ever consider. But to each his own.
I know for a fact that you were going to play over there this year and in the NFFC. Now I alone have to put up with you this year!!! But I'll gladly do it and I have a feeling we'll have some fun in Sin City on the second weekend. Welcome back to the NFFC!
I'll admit that I read all of the Message Boards in the HSFF community. We all should. I don't like everything that is said about us, but hey, that's what public forums are for. If I did what Alex did then Lance would never return to the NFBC or NFFC!! Thankfully we have thicker skin than that. [/QUOTE]Correct me if I'm wrong but how many times have you kicked GG out? 2?
quote:Originally posted by DoubleG:
quote:Originally posted by The Yellow Line is Unofficial:
One of the things I have liked about the FFPC, is something that I see on these boards as well. You can come on these boards and post what you like more about one event than another and not only will your post not get deleted, not only will you not get banned, but ownership will respond to the player desires.
Funny you mention this. I've had a different experience in this regard. Alex from the FFPC saw something I posted on the NFFC boards, didn't like it, and PM'd me through the FFPC boards. He said if I wanted to play in any FFPC events this year, he'd ask me to retract what I wrote on the NFFC boards.
IMO the guy overstepped his bounds by threatening me into changing my post on the NFFC boards. In talking to other players, I found out this isn't the first time he asked someone to change a post. Guy uses some shady business practices IMO. Hence, I'm only playing the NFFC this year. [/QUOTE]I don't agree with what he did and I would never do it. Your point about rollovers not being totally transparent or legal was your opinion and continues to be a worthy discussion. To be "banned" from another contest for making that point on the NFFC boards shows a more controlling management style than I would ever consider. But to each his own.
I know for a fact that you were going to play over there this year and in the NFFC. Now I alone have to put up with you this year!!! But I'll gladly do it and I have a feeling we'll have some fun in Sin City on the second weekend. Welcome back to the NFFC!
I'll admit that I read all of the Message Boards in the HSFF community. We all should. I don't like everything that is said about us, but hey, that's what public forums are for. If I did what Alex did then Lance would never return to the NFBC or NFFC!! Thankfully we have thicker skin than that. [/QUOTE]Correct me if I'm wrong but how many times have you kicked GG out? 2?
You'll be fine long as your pretty face holds out, then it's gonna get pretty cold out...