What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:31 am

I really didn't want to resurrect this thread while we were headed toward a new labor agreement, but the posts of the last 24 hours on other sites have upset me enough to at least post my two cents here. The frustration from our industry is boiling over faster than a Vonnie Holliday tweet during last night's negotiations and it's time for a resolution.

For one thing, I see my good friend Shawn Childs becoming the only voice on the WCOFF boards and he's getting beaten up for every response he makes on behalf of management. I wish he'd return to being just a great fantasy player again and let management explain their actions. I'm not sure he's helping the cause when folks don't believe he can help solve the non-payment issue. If he can help and if he is part of something coming down the road then he or Dustin should say so, but until that happens Shawn responds as a player and takes his licks because of it. Again, I hate to see that happening to a good friend and I wish the top dogs there would say something instead of having Shawn do it for them.

As for the players, they are frustrated beyond control by the lack of information. The silence is deafening and the players are left hanging in the wind. And that's not a good feeling when hundreds of thousands of dollars hang in the balance. Just common sense and decency would force folks to at least update the situation, good or bad. I think it's time for folks to provide some type of update and then a full explanation of what happened. Good news or bad news, people can deal with it their own way once all the facts are out there. Someone should provide those facts soon.

We all want this to work out and have the players paid in full. Any plan that gets that done and lets those players who rolled over their money to receive cash in return will be welcomed by everyone in the industry. Shawn keeps dropping hints of optimism, so someone official step up and replace Shawn with the details. Everyone wants to hear them.

Shawn, you're an NFBC Hall of Famer and a Charter Member of the NFFC. I hope you continue being the best fantasy player out there. And I hope something positive comes soon for the owed players, who are even turning on each other throughout this mess. I hope to see your name often on the message boards here and everywhere else, but not while getting beaten up the way you have been. Step out of that fray and let someone else involved in management really explain everything in full. Players are mad at what has transpired since the end of December -- and rightfully so -- and it's time for answers from someone other than you. It's time to hear them.

The money issue is affecting ALL contests in our industry. Everyone needs to hear those answers.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:03 am

Well said, Greg. There's no question that what is happening with WCOFF is having an effect on the entire industry. Even those without "dogs in the fight" are SICKENED by what has transpired over the past 5 months. In some cases, players have become so disenchanted with fantasy sports that they don't want to play anymore -- not just in WCOFF, but anywhere. Again, I'm not just talking about people who are owed money. Everyone is tired of the excuses, spin, delays, stories...whatever you want to call it.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:51 am

It sure looks like the high-stakes space is excelling this year despite the NFL lockout. Kudos to the players for keeping the excitement and jumping on board once the deal was struck. I think this is going to be a wild, wild season of fun for all of us. The lockout was painful for 137 days, but now we have condensed free agent fun!!!

And with any luck our industry will avoid a major black eye and get all past players paid. I'm hearing positive things in that regard and if it happens I say KUDOS. Nobody will be able to explain to me logically why communication was virtually dead in the water for 100 days and trust me I felt the players' heartburn and angst all the way up here in the northern woods of Wisconsin. Some folks will never forget that experience.

But if everyone gets paid in full and if the new owners give everyone who rolled over their money the option to take cash that they won in 2010 then I'm happy for everyone. This space can handle the competition and the players will speak loudly with their wallets, both in football and baseball. Let's hope it gets done soon so that the players can move forward and I REALLY hope the 2011 baseball players can now look forward to a prize at the end of the season.

Again: KUDOS if the players get paid. KUDOS if those who rolled over money get the option to take cash instead of entries. KUDOS if the Dream Job winner gets paid in full over 5 years. KUDOS if an old friend returns to the industry. I don't know if it's all going to happen, but for the first time I think it has a chance and that's good for the industry, good for the other contest, and especially good for the players.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:21 pm

It should be interesting Greg and a thankful breather from the drama of the last handful of months. Now we can get to the business of winning fantasy leagues.

slam · Post by **slam** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:09 am

Good luck to them both.

And if Emil is one of the new owners it is probably the best thing possible for WCOFF.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:18 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
It should be interesting Greg and a thankful breather from the drama of the last handful of months. Now we can get to the business of winning fantasy leagues. We've had enough of interesting, now we need PAYMENTS!!

I will state that they have a lot of work to do in a short time, but I'm with you that the key is getting football folks paid from last year and ensuring that all baseball participants have a secure prize pool waiting for them at season's end. These last six months of non-communication has been very stressful for a lot of good people and hopefully this will NEVER happen in this space again. Kudos to Ian and Emil if they can somehow make this contest and their players whole again.

After that, as we talked about before, let the customers decide what games are best for them. Three contests in this space are not too much if all are run well and right now it's all about trust, customer service, guaranteeing the prizes, first class events and good, competitive contests. TRUST has to be No. 1 for anyone coming into or back into this space going forward.

Good luck Glenn and I know you've just been reporting the facts as you hear them. It's too bad some of you took a beating for it, but there have been so many false alarms and so little communication from Dustin that you can understand why everyone is so frustrated. I don't care what the lawyers say, someone within the past group should have been at least giving positive updates along the way if there really was going to be a positive outcome. I think a lot of this came together late, but still, dead air is worse than positive or negative updates.

Good luck all. I'm happy if/when everyone is paid in full. Let the competition begin and let all players have their winnings in hand.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:28 am

Originally posted by slam:
Good luck to them both.

And if Emil is one of the new owners it is probably the best thing possible for WCOFF. Agreed Sam. I think anyone jumping back into that situation had to have Lenny or Emil at the forefront. I don't think anyone new outside of a major media company could have plugged the hole on that leaking ship. I still think he has a lot of work to do and it's late in the game, but at least it's a familiar, friendly face.

It's not a pretty face (sorry Emil!!!), but it's familiar.

As you are seeing Sam, people are questioning why anyone would buy the brand when it's been tarnished. Personally, it's tough for me to justify as well unless the price was too good to ignore. It's not like you are buying a brick and mortar building. But it does have 9 years of loyalty, a strong customer list (that is likely already being tapped into) and the role as the first event in the industry. There is equity in the brand yet and enough loyal customers to make this work with the right payout structure, but the buy-in would have to be right. Good for those who figured it out and best of luck going forward.

Every investor sees deals differently. My hope now is that after everyone is paid, the new owners show how the prize money is secured, backed up and explains who actually is in charge. Heck, I'd love to see an explanation of how we all got to this point for the players' sake. I think I know how this unraveled and I think folks would love to know if their future contests will have safer prize payouts in all their sports. It doesn't do anyone any good if you promise the highest grand prize but then can't pay it off. So I'm interested in that press release and the answer to everyone's questions, too. But I'm just a spectator in all of this and watching from afar. Good luck to all of you who are in the middle of this. It hasn't been easy, I know.

da bears · Post by **da bears** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:10 pm

I'm surprised that some group actually bought the WCOFF. A lot of damage has been done to the WCOFF name/brand. The new owners have a ton of work to do to try to regain the trust of lost customers like myself. This will be extremely tough to do this year especially with the late start in taking the signups. I wish the new owners the best because I want to see all of the players from last year get paid.

[ August 04, 2011, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: da bears ]

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:00 am

Originally posted by da bears:
I want to see all of the players from last year get paid. Ditto. That's far and away the only thing that should matter right now. Hopefully that can be done in a timely fashion so all of the prize winners are paid well in advance of the draft date. Preparing for the event should be a minor point on the agenda given how long prize winners have been waiting to be paid. The last thing this industry needed was for another event to exit the space without paying prize winners so hopefully that's been averted.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:12 am

I started this thread back in late April because I truly was concerned about our high-stakes space. I started the thread by asking the question: "What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football" because this area of our industry was in turmoil at the time.

Well, turn the pages ahead 3+ months and it looks like we're in more turmoil than ever before. We still have unpaid winners from another contest, we've had a week of rumors about that contest being bought out, and hundreds and hundreds of players sit idly by wondering if they'll play again this year. Or ever again.

I'm finally commenting on this because all of this turmoil is affecting all of us in this fine industry. No matter how it gets resolved it's a black eye for everyone involved. The emails I get are "I'm so mad I don't think I'm going to play again" or "I know I can trust you, but after this I'm not sure I want to trust anyone again." I got three similar emails like this today and one last night wondering if anyone will reach their targeted numbers this year with all of the turmoil going on.

Thus I ask again: What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

For someone to ask about our targeted goals is a worthy question. Heck, we all know the lockout prevented early signups this year and fortunately these past 10 days have been the best in NFFC history over that span. We've had 100+ Classic signups and 85+ Primetime signups. We need similar paces over the next 21 days to reach our goals. But while I would like to blame the lockout for the last minute signups, I think the other contest is forcing people to sit tight and wait before making decisions. It's a matter of money and knowing if there's even going to be a contest there or not.

The HSFF space has had increased numbers every single year since Lenny and Emil founded the WCOFF in 2002. They sold out in 2003, then we came into the market in 2004 and added more teams. The market continued to grow and in 2008 a third competitor came into the mix, again adding many more teams. There is no reason that we shouldn't have even more participation this year in the HSFF live events space.

But take a look at the current signup numbers for this space and you'll see a scary stat. Last year there were more than 1,700 teams among the three contests and this year there are just over 700. That means 1,000+ teams are waiting to make a decision on their participation this year, for a number of reasons. Yes, many of them will still compete somewhere, but time is running short for travel and that uncertainly isn't helping at all. Here's the numbers from 2010:

NFFC: 308 (Classic) + 240 (Primetime) = 548
FFPC = 312
WCOFF = 868
Total = 1,718

Right now we have over 300 signups for the Classic and Primetime and the FFPC has 420+. The other contest has rollover signups and more if they continued to take signups before they paid out prizes, but without knowing if they will return or not there's still a lot of people uncommitted right now. Again, the hope is that those teams still stay in the space no matter what happens, but it's possible some people have had enough. That's not good for any of us.

I think the strong will survive and these last 3-4 weeks will be wild with signups. But there has to be concern here from everyone. Nobody is certain how this is finally going to play out and even if it ends up good I think some damage has been done. Someone really should give an honest update so that players can plan accordingly. The rumors an innuendos and players smacking each other around because of contest loyalties is starting to turn some folks off completely. I'm concerned for all of us now and this week didn't settle anything for some folks.

Again, I ask: What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football? Let's hope the answer is this: Sanity returns, every participant understands what Buyer Beware means, every honest contest prospers and grows, and every winner gets paid in full and on time. Let's hope prosperity continues despite our self-inflicted wounds in this space.