What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:03 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
I'll admit that I was a big proponent of rollovers and all the perceived benefits that went along with it. I've allowed myself to get involved in numerous debates across several contest message boards supporting the practice (usually debating Gekko).

I no longer feel the same. The negatives far outweigh the positives. Glenn, I think the debates have been healthy for everyone. It first started as a legal debate and whether this was even legal or not and whether we wanted the government weighing in on this. Now I think it's a matter of protecting consumers from ourselves. I think each season there should be closure on the season just completed with all prizes going out in full and the next season starting anew. If any contest can pay in full immediately after the season is done then there should be no concerns of a "run on the bank" in the following year. What happened this year has exposed all of the possible failures of what can happen with prize rollovers. We should all agree not to let it happen again even if everyone is paid in full.

RiFF · Post by **RiFF** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:27 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:
[qb] NEVER EVER ROLL OVER YOUR PRIZE MONEY

IN ANY CONTEST

UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE

You're welcome. [/QUOTE]Other than a supposed tax break, why wouldn't players want cash in hand weeks or even days after they've won their money? Am I missing something? [/QUOTE]You seemed to have a firm grasp on the concept when NFFC was "rolling" satellites winnings from one year into entry fees for the next year's Main Event.
If you don't fully trust a contest you shouldn't enter it to begin with, whether they promise to pay out all prizes in cash or not. In some cases, just as was the case with NFFC in the past, it may make sense to "roll over" prize winnings. I won a couple of thiose NFFC satellites that rolled over" the winnings into next year's Main Event and when I inquired about getting paid in cash; paraphrasing what you said.....the entry fees aren't sufficient to pay out cash, we offer these events to help bolster next year's ME entries and we aren't making any profit on them, so we don't offer a cash option. I fully understood that explanation and NEVER felt like the money was at risk. So, at least at one point you did understand the concept of not paying out all winnings in cash.
I do concur that all contests should provide players the opportunity to cash out 100% of their winnings;but I also see it as a potential benefit if a contest offers the player the opportunity to "roll over" some or all his winnings into next year's events. In today's interest rate environment a person is losing very little if the winnings are just going to sit in a bank account or money market fund. In that case it can benefit both the player and contest owner if the owner is holding the funds. The main benefit to the player is convenience and the main benefit to the contest is the savings of the merchant transaction fees for CC's. That fee is probably around 3%. So, if the contest owner was holding say $50 thousand of players winnings he would save $1500. in processing fees the following year. That either makes the contest more financially viable OR it allows more cash to be funneled into the prize pool. Additionally, in some cases, at least in mine it has added benefit. For every $1000. my wife sees on our CC bill for FF she sees that as entitlement to buy another $1000, Prada or Versace or whoever handbag. So, if I leave $3000. with the contest owner I'm saving another $3000 in purses!!!

Personally, I don't see the problem with contest owners offering the player the convenience of leaving a portion of his winnings in the contest to be used as entry fees for next year's events. I also belive the contest should also offer the player the option of receiving those funds in cash if the player subsequently decides not to play in next year's events.....win/win for everyone.

But if you don't trust leaving any winnings with a contest owner.....you should NOT be playing in that contest.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:35 am

Rich, if any player wants to leave their money to cover the next year's fees, any game operator provides that service. The government still gets the earned income total, but of course we'd keep your money if it keeps your marriage sound. I wouldn't expect any game operator to not provide that service. We have in the past and will in the future if anyone/you needs it.

As for saying we rolled over money because "the entry fees aren't sufficient to pay out cash" that just isn't truthful. We advertised contests that allow you to WIN A FREE ENTRY into next year's Main Event. We were told we were reporting this correctly and we continued to run those satellite leagues that way. I still think we did it right, but Fanball.com's and STATS' accountants want us to report the earned income another way. Now we put on those contests that you can win the free entry or take $1400 in prize payouts. So we are putting the value on those contests.

Again, I'm not trying to say anyone is doing anything wrong at this point. I'm just saying that right now we -- as game operators -- might all want to agree that full rollovers aren't the best way to run these games anymore. Maybe it's time for full disclosure of paying all prizes at season's end. Maybe I'm wrong; it certainly won't be the first time. But I think we can still provide the type of customer service you're talking about while not hiding any problems at the same time.

nolencole · Post by **nolencole** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:37 am

nice Q.

a picture says a 1000 words...

AA

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:54 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

If it helps our industry grow, why wouldn't we all agree to this? Other than a supposed tax break, why wouldn't players want cash in hand weeks or even days after they've won their money? Am I missing something? This is why -> the cash never makes it into their hands.
[/QUOTE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3aqPv9eE-c&NR=1

KenGill · Post by **KenGill** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:56 am

NEVER EVER ROLL OVER YOUR PRIZE MONEY

IN ANY CONTEST

UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE

You're welcome.
------------------------------------------------------
Bingo.
A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow, or when the next season starts, or whenever. Take the money, always. And it really has nothing to do with trusting the game operators. It's just good business.

RiFF · Post by **RiFF** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:04 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
The government still gets the earned income total, but of course we'd keep your money if it keeps your marriage sound. I wouldn't expect any game operator to not provide that service. We have in the past and will in the future if anyone/you needs it.

As for saying we rolled over money because "the entry fees aren't sufficient to pay out cash" that just isn't truthful. We advertised contests that allow you to WIN A FREE ENTRY into next year's Main Event. We were told we were reporting this correctly and we continued to run those satellite leagues that way. I still think we did it right, but Fanball.com's and STATS' accountants want us to report the earned income another way. Now we put on those contests that you can win the free entry or take $1400 in prize payouts. So we are putting the value on those contests.

Historically, NFFC did NOT report satellite winnings into next year's main Event to the government. If you have changed your policy with the different ownerships you've had ,, to now reporting it, that's probably a correct policy change. My marriage is extremnely sound....but thanks for caring. We just don't need any more purses.

As far as "the entry fees aren't sufficient to pay out cash" for those cheapie satellites.....that's what I was told by you....so go ahead and call me a liar but that doesn't change what you told me. And you may now offer a cash option for those satellites; but the entry fee is no longer $100 either.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:08 am

Rich, if someone wanted the cash equivalent of a free Main Event entry we have provided that for them. We have never forced someone to take a free entry if they won one of our Winner Take All satellite leagues. If someone prefers the cash prize instead they always received it.

RiFF · Post by **RiFF** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:14 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Rich, if someone wanted the cash equivalent of a free Main Event entry we have provided that for them. We have never forced someone to take a free entry if they won one of our Winner Take All satellite leagues. If someone prefers the cash prize instead they always received it. I do understand that is now your policy...thanks.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:15 am

Originally posted by RiFF:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Rich, if someone wanted the cash equivalent of a free Main Event entry we have provided that for them. We have never forced someone to take a free entry if they won one of our Winner Take All satellite leagues. If someone prefers the cash prize instead they always received it. I do understand that is now your policy...thanks. [/QUOTE]Rich, that's been our policy dating back to when we worked at F&W. If someone preferred the cash equivalent to a free entry that is what we provided for them.