billy makes a fine point on the week ten kicker. I think it was KOQ that had the idea of the computer making the switch on tues to get bye week and ir guys off starting lineup. instead of this thread every year there should be changes made and every year talk about making the change better.
sorry if i seemed hard on you tom but i take this seriously.
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Quitters ruin this contest....
THIS IS THE BUSINESS WE HAVE CHOSEN
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wow eddie , didnt see he worked for rotowire. im sure his gtoupies will all stick up for him. even if there was a ban on teams not putting in lineups 2 weeks in a row , you would have guys sticking up for him.
THIS IS THE BUSINESS WE HAVE CHOSEN
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Originally posted by KOTRAX:
YEAH THAT IS A DECENT IDEA BUT LETS SAY THAT WARM BODY HAPPENS TO BE MATT STAFFORD YESTERDAY. I AM SURE ONLY 5% OF AMERICA (IF THAT) STARTED HIM.
THEN THAT WOULD EVEN BRING UP A BIGGER PROBLEM WITH OWNERS SAYING "I LOST TO AN PICK THAT A OWNER WOULD HAVE NEVER PLAYED."
TRUE THE EXAMPLE I USED IS EXTREME BUT THE ONE TIME IT HAPPENS WE WILL BE BACK TO SQUARE ONE AGAIN. If I were playing a team with a QB who was OUT this week and Matt Stafford was on his bench, I deserved to lose. He rightfully had Stafford and if that was the only QB on his roster that was available to play (or best viable option) as opposed to a QB that was listed as OUT, then I should have lost to that team.
If we are talking fairness and competitive integrity, it is more fair that I lose based on a bad break that Stafford went off than I win based on a good break that an owner quit. You can't say "I lost to a pick that an owner never should hvae played" because any owner who is actually RUNNING THE TEAM and ran into that situation would have played Stafford if there was not other viable option.
YEAH THAT IS A DECENT IDEA BUT LETS SAY THAT WARM BODY HAPPENS TO BE MATT STAFFORD YESTERDAY. I AM SURE ONLY 5% OF AMERICA (IF THAT) STARTED HIM.
THEN THAT WOULD EVEN BRING UP A BIGGER PROBLEM WITH OWNERS SAYING "I LOST TO AN PICK THAT A OWNER WOULD HAVE NEVER PLAYED."
TRUE THE EXAMPLE I USED IS EXTREME BUT THE ONE TIME IT HAPPENS WE WILL BE BACK TO SQUARE ONE AGAIN. If I were playing a team with a QB who was OUT this week and Matt Stafford was on his bench, I deserved to lose. He rightfully had Stafford and if that was the only QB on his roster that was available to play (or best viable option) as opposed to a QB that was listed as OUT, then I should have lost to that team.
If we are talking fairness and competitive integrity, it is more fair that I lose based on a bad break that Stafford went off than I win based on a good break that an owner quit. You can't say "I lost to a pick that an owner never should hvae played" because any owner who is actually RUNNING THE TEAM and ran into that situation would have played Stafford if there was not other viable option.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by THE_BLACKHAND:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Nice photo Steve. Doesn't it look like Greg is cheating off my exam paper?
sumthing has to be done.instead of not paying attention to the problem and making a joke out of it. integrity is everything. [/QUOTE]I agree with you Blackhand. This is a very real issue. I have discussed this every single the NFFC has been in existance around this time. Some people recognize the importance of the topic/issue (I believe the Greg and Tom are included) but you have other people who mock the issue.. and attack the person/people who bring it to light.
I have never understood that. I have never been here saying we should make some dramatic change to our great event. I have never said we need to impose rules on quitter teams in mid season.. I have simply said this is a topic that expert level fantasy football minds should be discussing and taking seriously. Yet I have been mocked repeatedly for it...
Guess I am a bad guy for wanting to talk about ways to improve the NFFC and make it stand out in the market... lol
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Nice photo Steve. Doesn't it look like Greg is cheating off my exam paper?
sumthing has to be done.instead of not paying attention to the problem and making a joke out of it. integrity is everything. [/QUOTE]I agree with you Blackhand. This is a very real issue. I have discussed this every single the NFFC has been in existance around this time. Some people recognize the importance of the topic/issue (I believe the Greg and Tom are included) but you have other people who mock the issue.. and attack the person/people who bring it to light.I have never understood that. I have never been here saying we should make some dramatic change to our great event. I have never said we need to impose rules on quitter teams in mid season.. I have simply said this is a topic that expert level fantasy football minds should be discussing and taking seriously. Yet I have been mocked repeatedly for it...
Guess I am a bad guy for wanting to talk about ways to improve the NFFC and make it stand out in the market... lol
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by THE_BLACKHAND:
[QUOTE] Frankie, we understand the frustration of some owners towards this problem, but there is a can of worms to open in every direction on this subject. WCOFF is trying something to address this problem now and I hate to say it but that's a tough, tough way to go. To have the event managers be responsible for changing players out of teams' starting lineups only when alerted by league members sets up a lot of crazy scenarios. EVERYONE needs to be on board with that rule then.
As far as incentivizing owners with a surtax or added fee, some would go for that and many others likely would not. Guess who wouldn't? It's hard enough to get 300+ owners at $1400 each to compete in the NFFC; adding another $100 makes it tougher. I understand the logic and like it, but it's tough for every single league.
For me, you have to hope that owners who pay this kind of entry fee will be on top of their team right through Week 13. I'm in other high stakes leagues with just 11 week regular seasons and yes I've seen some teams not compete the whole way. But it happens.
This is a tough one from a game operator's standpoint and my hope is that NFFC owners are passionate enough to compete right until the bitter end. But there isn't a league around where that happens 100 percent of the time.
It's a good discussion with some good ideas. Just no easy answers. [/QUOTE]Greg,
I agree that asking for more money is likely a problem and maybe not the answer. I also agree the game operators should not in any way be monitoring teams or making lineup moves. Though I do agree the game operators need to have "executive power" to make rulings or judgements with unforseen things that may not be covered in the rules. On the surface I think any intervention with this kind of thing should be AUTOMATED or should be one where league members can "report" an issue that gets addressed as opposed to all teams being regularly monitored.
Your points about "hoping owners who pay this kind of money will play out the league" or "I would hope NFFC players will be passionate enough to compete until the bitter end" is nice in theory, but I think we all realize that isn't enough. I said in a different post that we all understand the challenge of getting people to pony up this kind of money every year for the event. All of us who are fantasy players know how frustrating this game is... those who are part of high stakes fantasy football know how hard it is to turn a profit in these events with this level of competition... we know how much pain and frustration goes into the game each week.
I have heard NUMEROUS NFFC regulars and respected fantasy players sound like Brett Favre at the end of the season saying "I am not sure I can do this anymore.. I am not sure this is a good investment.. I am not sure I can put up this kind of money when it is so tough to get a return on my investment..." This all comes out at the end of the year when fantasy owners have taken an emotional (and ultimately financial) beating repeatedly all year.
The issue of quitter teams is just another variable in the "late season fantasy football frustration stew"... only this one I think we can do something about. Mind you, this has been coming from me, someone who (not that I can remember) has NEVER been impacted in any high stakes event by a quitter owner. I simply recognize how legit the issue is and wonder why people blow it off or knock those who try to talk about it.
quote:Originally posted by THE_BLACKHAND:
[QUOTE] Frankie, we understand the frustration of some owners towards this problem, but there is a can of worms to open in every direction on this subject. WCOFF is trying something to address this problem now and I hate to say it but that's a tough, tough way to go. To have the event managers be responsible for changing players out of teams' starting lineups only when alerted by league members sets up a lot of crazy scenarios. EVERYONE needs to be on board with that rule then.
As far as incentivizing owners with a surtax or added fee, some would go for that and many others likely would not. Guess who wouldn't? It's hard enough to get 300+ owners at $1400 each to compete in the NFFC; adding another $100 makes it tougher. I understand the logic and like it, but it's tough for every single league.
For me, you have to hope that owners who pay this kind of entry fee will be on top of their team right through Week 13. I'm in other high stakes leagues with just 11 week regular seasons and yes I've seen some teams not compete the whole way. But it happens.
This is a tough one from a game operator's standpoint and my hope is that NFFC owners are passionate enough to compete right until the bitter end. But there isn't a league around where that happens 100 percent of the time.
It's a good discussion with some good ideas. Just no easy answers. [/QUOTE]Greg,
I agree that asking for more money is likely a problem and maybe not the answer. I also agree the game operators should not in any way be monitoring teams or making lineup moves. Though I do agree the game operators need to have "executive power" to make rulings or judgements with unforseen things that may not be covered in the rules. On the surface I think any intervention with this kind of thing should be AUTOMATED or should be one where league members can "report" an issue that gets addressed as opposed to all teams being regularly monitored.
Your points about "hoping owners who pay this kind of money will play out the league" or "I would hope NFFC players will be passionate enough to compete until the bitter end" is nice in theory, but I think we all realize that isn't enough. I said in a different post that we all understand the challenge of getting people to pony up this kind of money every year for the event. All of us who are fantasy players know how frustrating this game is... those who are part of high stakes fantasy football know how hard it is to turn a profit in these events with this level of competition... we know how much pain and frustration goes into the game each week.
I have heard NUMEROUS NFFC regulars and respected fantasy players sound like Brett Favre at the end of the season saying "I am not sure I can do this anymore.. I am not sure this is a good investment.. I am not sure I can put up this kind of money when it is so tough to get a return on my investment..." This all comes out at the end of the year when fantasy owners have taken an emotional (and ultimately financial) beating repeatedly all year.
The issue of quitter teams is just another variable in the "late season fantasy football frustration stew"... only this one I think we can do something about. Mind you, this has been coming from me, someone who (not that I can remember) has NEVER been impacted in any high stakes event by a quitter owner. I simply recognize how legit the issue is and wonder why people blow it off or knock those who try to talk about it.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by FantasyFactor:
quote:Originally posted by Bullgod:
Maybe we can embarass people into playing out the string...I'll start...
In the Primetime Chicago League 3, Peter Schoenke of rotowire.com played his kicker who was on a bye in week 10 and this week he played Dwayne Bowe AND Larry Johnson...considering his flex was Steve Slaton and he had the likes of Austin Collie, Michael Jenkins and Joshua Cribbs on his bench he could've played Slaton at RB instead of LJ and had any 2 of the WR's listed above to play WR instead of Bowe and Flexed the other. He also still has $123 in free agent money if he didn't like his choices on his bench!
I know, he probably didn't know that Dwayne Bowe was suspended!
RotoWire Update Recommendation
KC 11/17/2009
Bowe has been suspended four games for violating the league's performance enhancing drugs policy, Kent Babb of the KC Star reports. This is a very tough break for Bowe...Join Now for Full Analysis!
OOPS!!!
Nope I guess that theory is shot...the "recommendation" above is from His own website!!!
And I looked in the transactions, he actually put LJ in his lineup on 11/22!!!
He probably thought LJ had a good matchup against the Steelers I guess Oh wait, he actually did know that LJ got suspended and released by the Chiefs and was playing for the Bengals...
RotoWire Update Recommendation
CIN 11/22/2009
Johnson will likely see around eight touches against the Raiders on Sunday, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports. If Cedric Benson doesn't play as ex...Join Now for Full Analysis!
Again, his own website...
So maybe he only tries when he has a chance and maybe some guys think that's ok. I'm not one of them and I won't be going to rotowire.com for anything! Why would anybody ever pay for his advice?!?
It surprises me that a guy who makes his living in this very industry would stop playing, especially since he's probably playing against some of his own customers. Maybe he's embarassed because some "amateurs" are spanking him but come on Peter Schoenke, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!
Well done jerk off.
Pete had a baby boy Saturday night. [/QUOTE]First of all, I'm glad to hear the goods new. I hope everyone is healthy! That IS the most important thing!
Second, I prefer to be called a cynical bastard
From your view Fantasy Factor he is a stand up guy. I'm not saying he's not. From my view(and anyone in this league) this is a guy who didn't make our draft, not sure why, so someone from the NFFC had to sit in his spot and talk to him on the phone the entire draft. Not very ideal. Then he doesn't play a K in week 10 and then he did what I detailed above this past week. So I know stuff happens in life, believe me I do! My son was in the hospital for 12 days earlier this year. Stuff happens!
But thank you for a different view on this and I'm happy for him and his family. Oh and ease up on the name calling please.
quote:Originally posted by Bullgod:
Maybe we can embarass people into playing out the string...I'll start...
In the Primetime Chicago League 3, Peter Schoenke of rotowire.com played his kicker who was on a bye in week 10 and this week he played Dwayne Bowe AND Larry Johnson...considering his flex was Steve Slaton and he had the likes of Austin Collie, Michael Jenkins and Joshua Cribbs on his bench he could've played Slaton at RB instead of LJ and had any 2 of the WR's listed above to play WR instead of Bowe and Flexed the other. He also still has $123 in free agent money if he didn't like his choices on his bench!
I know, he probably didn't know that Dwayne Bowe was suspended!
RotoWire Update Recommendation
KC 11/17/2009
Bowe has been suspended four games for violating the league's performance enhancing drugs policy, Kent Babb of the KC Star reports. This is a very tough break for Bowe...Join Now for Full Analysis!
OOPS!!!
Nope I guess that theory is shot...the "recommendation" above is from His own website!!!
And I looked in the transactions, he actually put LJ in his lineup on 11/22!!!
He probably thought LJ had a good matchup against the Steelers I guess
Oh wait, he actually did know that LJ got suspended and released by the Chiefs and was playing for the Bengals...RotoWire Update Recommendation
CIN 11/22/2009
Johnson will likely see around eight touches against the Raiders on Sunday, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports. If Cedric Benson doesn't play as ex...Join Now for Full Analysis!
Again, his own website...
So maybe he only tries when he has a chance and maybe some guys think that's ok. I'm not one of them and I won't be going to rotowire.com for anything! Why would anybody ever pay for his advice?!?
It surprises me that a guy who makes his living in this very industry would stop playing, especially since he's probably playing against some of his own customers. Maybe he's embarassed because some "amateurs" are spanking him but come on Peter Schoenke, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!
Well done jerk off.Pete had a baby boy Saturday night. [/QUOTE]First of all, I'm glad to hear the goods new. I hope everyone is healthy! That IS the most important thing!
Second, I prefer to be called a cynical bastard
From your view Fantasy Factor he is a stand up guy. I'm not saying he's not. From my view(and anyone in this league) this is a guy who didn't make our draft, not sure why, so someone from the NFFC had to sit in his spot and talk to him on the phone the entire draft. Not very ideal. Then he doesn't play a K in week 10 and then he did what I detailed above this past week. So I know stuff happens in life, believe me I do! My son was in the hospital for 12 days earlier this year. Stuff happens!
But thank you for a different view on this and I'm happy for him and his family. Oh and ease up on the name calling please.
Pat Sorge
-
Tom Kessenich
- Posts: 30158
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Quitters ruin this contest....
Just to be clear Frank, I was having some fun with the picture Steve posted. I was not making light of this discussion.
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Quitters ruin this contest....
Tom,
I actually thought what you said was funny... we can be funny AND take an issue seriously. I don't want people to think I don't appreciate good humor because I do.
I actually thought what you said was funny... we can be funny AND take an issue seriously. I don't want people to think I don't appreciate good humor because I do.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by THE_BLACKHAND:
billy makes a fine point on the week ten kicker. I think it was KOQ that had the idea of the computer making the switch on tues to get bye week and ir guys off starting lineup. instead of this thread every year there should be changes made and every year talk about making the change better.
sorry if i seemed hard on you tom but i take this seriously. This is a good point. I hear people complaining about the site providing an "automated lineup" but it already does. I can't take credit for this point because someone else made it and I thought it was good enough to repeat.
The Stats site already gives us a lineup. It isn't like we have a blank lineup that we have to fill in each week. The system provides the same lineup as from the week before and then the fantasy owners start making adjustments. Why can't the Stats site just make the highest scoring lineup (based on averages of players who are NOT listed on BYE OR OUT) each week and then owners (like 99% of them do) make their adjustments like normal.
This idea seems too easy so I am sure someone will provide a good reason why it can't work... but we need to be throwing out ideas.
billy makes a fine point on the week ten kicker. I think it was KOQ that had the idea of the computer making the switch on tues to get bye week and ir guys off starting lineup. instead of this thread every year there should be changes made and every year talk about making the change better.
sorry if i seemed hard on you tom but i take this seriously. This is a good point. I hear people complaining about the site providing an "automated lineup" but it already does. I can't take credit for this point because someone else made it and I thought it was good enough to repeat.
The Stats site already gives us a lineup. It isn't like we have a blank lineup that we have to fill in each week. The system provides the same lineup as from the week before and then the fantasy owners start making adjustments. Why can't the Stats site just make the highest scoring lineup (based on averages of players who are NOT listed on BYE OR OUT) each week and then owners (like 99% of them do) make their adjustments like normal.
This idea seems too easy so I am sure someone will provide a good reason why it can't work... but we need to be throwing out ideas.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by FantasyFactor:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by FantasyFactor:
Well done jerk off.
Pete had a baby boy Saturday night. That's great news for him, but is it an excuse for quitting a contest in midstream? Unless he hatched the baby himself, I think he could've taken 30 seconds to set his lineup. [/QUOTE]maybe he sets his lineups every Sat night or Sunday morning and had something more important this weekend. ya think?
I've played against Pete in several leagues over the past decade and I've never seen anything like this.
This attack on Pete is unwarranted.
Wow, I guess if you play high stakes fantasy football, you can't ever go to the hospital over the weekend. Heaven forbid.
Make sure your wife only has kids on a weekday. [/QUOTE]Options for setting lineups when you're away:
1) Do it in advance, just in case. Lineups can be set weeks in advance.
2) Call a friend.
3) Call or email Greg.
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by FantasyFactor:
Well done jerk off.
Pete had a baby boy Saturday night. That's great news for him, but is it an excuse for quitting a contest in midstream? Unless he hatched the baby himself, I think he could've taken 30 seconds to set his lineup. [/QUOTE]maybe he sets his lineups every Sat night or Sunday morning and had something more important this weekend. ya think?
I've played against Pete in several leagues over the past decade and I've never seen anything like this.
This attack on Pete is unwarranted.
Wow, I guess if you play high stakes fantasy football, you can't ever go to the hospital over the weekend. Heaven forbid.
Make sure your wife only has kids on a weekday. [/QUOTE]Options for setting lineups when you're away:
1) Do it in advance, just in case. Lineups can be set weeks in advance.
2) Call a friend.
3) Call or email Greg.