Kotrax,
Who are you asking and who is kevin?
I likely wont get back online again today so I support we can pick this up tomorrow..
I will leave off RE-asking the following question because I am hoping to see some good negatives to it.
I want some feedback. I made this point earlier today but it was the last post on the previous page and I am not sure how many saw it...
We currently have AUTOMATED LINEUPS set for us each week. Each week, on Tuesday morning, we see our team and a lineup has been put in place. It is not like we have an empty team that requires us manually enter the players at each position to fill a lineup.
We all (or at least 99% of us) begin tinkering with our lineups (as early as Tuesday morning at work), often changing it countless times throughout the week. Why can't this automated Tuesday morning lineup be the highest averaging lineup among players that are not on BYE or listed as OUT? This immediately gets the one thing that drives people nuts about quitters cleaned up.
What is the downside to this?
Quitters ruin this contest....
Quitters ruin this contest....
i find the reason to allow teams to start bye week or IR players because its their money and can do what you want with it plain dumb. to me it is stealing. it can cost a team 5k if there team has a good record and low on points. does that team deserve the 5k...prob not. but by rules we play with it would be won fair and square. as for me , if i lose fair and square i will congrats to you and shake your hand. if you steal from me im not taking it if i have to spend another 2k to get it from you. sorry if it sounds harsh but i do not steal and dont expect it done to me.everyone is diff and im not looking to argue but it is stealing in certain cases when top teams are playing quiters.
THIS IS THE BUSINESS WE HAVE CHOSEN
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sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Here's one for ya Lance:
minnesota azkickers 80.05
QB Jay Cutler 16.65
RB LaDainian Tomlinson 13.3
RB Ronnie Brown 0
WR Lee Evans 2.5
WR Kenny Britt 14.2
WR Brandon Marshall 5.6
TE Dallas Clark 7.3
DST Minnesota DST 10
K Ryan Longwell 5
FL Bobby Wade 5.5
This guy started R Brown this week - he put 140+ last week, but decided to start an IR player this week against a top team.
-----
Here's another Lance, from the team I called out several weeks ago for quitting, Team Sax. After handing a win to a top team one week, he started playing again and put up 140+ in consecutive weeks.
Team Sax
QB Drew Brees
RB Ryan Grant
RB Matt Forte
WR Terrell Owens
WR Steve Breaston
WR Devery Henderson
TE Tony Gonzalez
DST New York (N) DST
K Neil Rackers
WR/RB/TE Marshawn Lynch
---
Here is the last place team in my main event league who beat me this week, didn't quit and certainly could contend for a weekly prize ...
Jillian 149.45
QB Kurt Warner
RB Brandon Jacobs
RB Matt Forte
WR Terrell Owens
WR Roy Williams
WR Steve Breaston
TE Tony Gonzalez
DST New York (A) DST
K Stephen Gostkowski
WR/RB/TE Ricky Williams
... he also has Massaquioi (22.5 pts), Mendenhall (19.6) and E Manning (36.1) on the bench!
-----
And finally, below is the team who handed a win to a now 8-3 team in my Primetime lge while leaving 50+ marginal pts on the bench and losing by single digits.
'Team Kraus' 120.85
QB Philip Rivers 13.25
RB Thomas Jones 10.3
RB Steven Jackson 18.6
WR Larry Fitzgerald 22.7
WR Austin Collie 2.2
WR Braylon Edwards 2
TE Vernon Davis 22.8
DST San Francisco DST 2
K Mason Crosby 12
WR/RB/TE Robert Meachem 15
BENCH
Brett Favre 34.65
Mario Manningham 18.6
Laurence Maroney 18.7
Now in this last case, I don't think Ron quit on this team at all, but with some prize money motivation I'd bet he gives this lineup more thought and probably starts Favre in a great matchup instead of Rivers who had a bad matchup, and/or Manningham/Maroney over several of his underachieving WRs. He had 170+ potential with the right lineup this week. OK...not a bad list.
Team #1 replaces Ronnie Brown and still gets a 100-110 score...most likely still a loss.
Team #2 fits your scenario perfectly in that a team like that can still challenge for a weekly prize. You said he's not a quitter after you called him out "several weeks ago"...wow...a team like that quit several weeks ago? Either way...if this team is currently not a quitter, how can you use his team in this example of quitting teams?
Team #3 is just another good team sitting at the bottom of the standings who has not quit. Again...shouldn't be listing teams that are not quitters in this response asking to see quitter teams. You are trying to set his lineup once the games are done.
Team #4 fielded a perfectly good lineup and you want him to field a perfect lineup? C'mon KJ...you are cherry picking from a bunch of non-quitting teams in a response to show me all these quitters I hear about.
I as well as most everyone understands that there are plenty of good teams with potential to score big (especially if you get to set lineups in hindsight) sitting in the lower half of league standings.
My question was "show me the quitter teams rosters and bench" and you produce three active teams, and a team that didn't bench Ronnie Brown.
Here's one for ya Lance:
minnesota azkickers 80.05
QB Jay Cutler 16.65
RB LaDainian Tomlinson 13.3
RB Ronnie Brown 0
WR Lee Evans 2.5
WR Kenny Britt 14.2
WR Brandon Marshall 5.6
TE Dallas Clark 7.3
DST Minnesota DST 10
K Ryan Longwell 5
FL Bobby Wade 5.5
This guy started R Brown this week - he put 140+ last week, but decided to start an IR player this week against a top team.
-----
Here's another Lance, from the team I called out several weeks ago for quitting, Team Sax. After handing a win to a top team one week, he started playing again and put up 140+ in consecutive weeks.
Team Sax
QB Drew Brees
RB Ryan Grant
RB Matt Forte
WR Terrell Owens
WR Steve Breaston
WR Devery Henderson
TE Tony Gonzalez
DST New York (N) DST
K Neil Rackers
WR/RB/TE Marshawn Lynch
---
Here is the last place team in my main event league who beat me this week, didn't quit and certainly could contend for a weekly prize ...
Jillian 149.45
QB Kurt Warner
RB Brandon Jacobs
RB Matt Forte
WR Terrell Owens
WR Roy Williams
WR Steve Breaston
TE Tony Gonzalez
DST New York (A) DST
K Stephen Gostkowski
WR/RB/TE Ricky Williams
... he also has Massaquioi (22.5 pts), Mendenhall (19.6) and E Manning (36.1) on the bench!
-----
And finally, below is the team who handed a win to a now 8-3 team in my Primetime lge while leaving 50+ marginal pts on the bench and losing by single digits.
'Team Kraus' 120.85
QB Philip Rivers 13.25
RB Thomas Jones 10.3
RB Steven Jackson 18.6
WR Larry Fitzgerald 22.7
WR Austin Collie 2.2
WR Braylon Edwards 2
TE Vernon Davis 22.8
DST San Francisco DST 2
K Mason Crosby 12
WR/RB/TE Robert Meachem 15
BENCH
Brett Favre 34.65
Mario Manningham 18.6
Laurence Maroney 18.7
Now in this last case, I don't think Ron quit on this team at all, but with some prize money motivation I'd bet he gives this lineup more thought and probably starts Favre in a great matchup instead of Rivers who had a bad matchup, and/or Manningham/Maroney over several of his underachieving WRs. He had 170+ potential with the right lineup this week. OK...not a bad list.
Team #1 replaces Ronnie Brown and still gets a 100-110 score...most likely still a loss.
Team #2 fits your scenario perfectly in that a team like that can still challenge for a weekly prize. You said he's not a quitter after you called him out "several weeks ago"...wow...a team like that quit several weeks ago? Either way...if this team is currently not a quitter, how can you use his team in this example of quitting teams?
Team #3 is just another good team sitting at the bottom of the standings who has not quit. Again...shouldn't be listing teams that are not quitters in this response asking to see quitter teams. You are trying to set his lineup once the games are done.
Team #4 fielded a perfectly good lineup and you want him to field a perfect lineup? C'mon KJ...you are cherry picking from a bunch of non-quitting teams in a response to show me all these quitters I hear about.
I as well as most everyone understands that there are plenty of good teams with potential to score big (especially if you get to set lineups in hindsight) sitting in the lower half of league standings.
My question was "show me the quitter teams rosters and bench" and you produce three active teams, and a team that didn't bench Ronnie Brown.
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by Renman:
But when there is a h2h element to the contest (as there needs to be to have a viable and well supported event) each owner has a certain level of responsibility to not hurt the competitive integrity of the league do they not? Now if you are saying they do not, you are welcome to have that opinion. Is that what you are saying?
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Players do NOT have a responsibility to YOU or ME to finish the season.
I was one of the original players who was lobbying to have the NFFC use a service to put a better default lineup in on Monday or Tuesday before people start changing their lineups. I get the idea of wanting to get better lineups in for teams that quit. It would make for a better contest IMHO.
But I totally disagree with you that other owners have a responsibility to YOU or to ME to play when their teams are out of it. Are you kidding me?
(Colluding with another player or some other form of cheating is another issue all together BTW ... i.e. ... owners don't have a right to do whatever they want)
But when there is a h2h element to the contest (as there needs to be to have a viable and well supported event) each owner has a certain level of responsibility to not hurt the competitive integrity of the league do they not? Now if you are saying they do not, you are welcome to have that opinion. Is that what you are saying?
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Players do NOT have a responsibility to YOU or ME to finish the season.
I was one of the original players who was lobbying to have the NFFC use a service to put a better default lineup in on Monday or Tuesday before people start changing their lineups. I get the idea of wanting to get better lineups in for teams that quit. It would make for a better contest IMHO.
But I totally disagree with you that other owners have a responsibility to YOU or to ME to play when their teams are out of it. Are you kidding me?
(Colluding with another player or some other form of cheating is another issue all together BTW ... i.e. ... owners don't have a right to do whatever they want)
Hakuna Matata!
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes:
quote:Originally posted by Renman:
But when there is a h2h element to the contest (as there needs to be to have a viable and well supported event) each owner has a certain level of responsibility to not hurt the competitive integrity of the league do they not? Now if you are saying they do not, you are welcome to have that opinion. Is that what you are saying?
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Players do NOT have a responsibility to YOU or ME to finish the season.
I was one of the original players who was lobbying to have the NFFC use a service to put a better default lineup in on Monday or Tuesday before people start changing their lineups. I get the idea of wanting to get better lineups in for teams that quit. It would make for a better contest IMHO.
But I totally disagree with you that other owners have a responsibility to YOU or to ME to play when their teams are out of it. Are you kidding me?
(Colluding with another player or some other form of cheating is another issue all together BTW ... i.e. ... owners don't have a right to do whatever they want) [/QUOTE]i have a strong opinion on this. I DO BELEVE that you do have a responsibility to field the best team possible.if you were a game out of first place with more points than the first place team (which lets say had the 5th highest pts.)and the 7th place team used used turner , r.brown and cooly and the 1st place team won by 20pts or less , you are telling me that you would not want to crack heads.you got to be the the pope.
quote:Originally posted by Renman:
But when there is a h2h element to the contest (as there needs to be to have a viable and well supported event) each owner has a certain level of responsibility to not hurt the competitive integrity of the league do they not? Now if you are saying they do not, you are welcome to have that opinion. Is that what you are saying?
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Players do NOT have a responsibility to YOU or ME to finish the season.
I was one of the original players who was lobbying to have the NFFC use a service to put a better default lineup in on Monday or Tuesday before people start changing their lineups. I get the idea of wanting to get better lineups in for teams that quit. It would make for a better contest IMHO.
But I totally disagree with you that other owners have a responsibility to YOU or to ME to play when their teams are out of it. Are you kidding me?
(Colluding with another player or some other form of cheating is another issue all together BTW ... i.e. ... owners don't have a right to do whatever they want) [/QUOTE]i have a strong opinion on this. I DO BELEVE that you do have a responsibility to field the best team possible.if you were a game out of first place with more points than the first place team (which lets say had the 5th highest pts.)and the 7th place team used used turner , r.brown and cooly and the 1st place team won by 20pts or less , you are telling me that you would not want to crack heads.you got to be the the pope.
THIS IS THE BUSINESS WE HAVE CHOSEN
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sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by Renman:
sportsbettingman,
What is your motivation to allow owners who quit in a high stakes fantasy football event the opportunity to negatively impact the competitive integrity, and ultimately, the overall experience for other participants in the league?
Why do you seem so intent on making sure this practice doesn't get interupted or addressed? I am curious. I ask with complete sincerity and hope you can answer without something sarcastic or off-topic... I just wonder why you seem so passionate about making sure no conversation about intervention regarding teams who quit. I have never met someone who thinks it is important to make sure this doesn't get addressed. Wondering why. My response to the first part of this question goes something like this...
What is quitting? Where would you stop using the word quitter...
~Not setting a lineup at all?
~Not benching your OUT players?
~Not benching your IR players?
~Not benching your Doubtful players?
~Not benching your Questionable players?
~Not considering/weighing defensive matchups?
~Not considering/weighing weather?
~Not considering past week production?
~Not considering average production?
~Not considering new injuries to teamates?
~Not working the waiver wire?
~Not setting optimal lineups?
Where do you draw the line? I can quit and make it look like I didn't by going through all the motions listed above at a half asses rate of intensity...I still quit...but I still remained active.
Integrity of the game? There is a big difference between cheating and quitting.
As for part two of your question...
All of these "solutions" presented here have gaping holes.
Grand Canyon sized gaping holes.
Paying who knows how much to program a automated lineup setting that will still benefit some teams one week and hurt other teams the next seems like chasing your tail.
For every team that benefits from these solutions...another team is hurt.
I am not a fan of big government holding everyones hand and setting their lineups and making everything automated.
In my honest opinion...blowing holes in every offered solution is the very best way to come to a better solution.
When you offer a solution attempt that gets the least holes blown into it...you have progress.
Stating over and over that I am trying to squash conversation about solutions is ludicrous. I'm doing the most I can by exposing loop holes in other folks solutions. I'm doing my best to help this conversation stay on course in an effort for progress.
Do I like quitters? Nope. If I needed a team to beat the better team in my league in order to have a chance in H2H record and they quit...I'd hate it. If I needed a team to quit when I played him to ensure a win for me...I'd love it. Have I quit? Nope. Someone will benefit from every scenario, and someone will not.
sportsbettingman,
What is your motivation to allow owners who quit in a high stakes fantasy football event the opportunity to negatively impact the competitive integrity, and ultimately, the overall experience for other participants in the league?
Why do you seem so intent on making sure this practice doesn't get interupted or addressed? I am curious. I ask with complete sincerity and hope you can answer without something sarcastic or off-topic... I just wonder why you seem so passionate about making sure no conversation about intervention regarding teams who quit. I have never met someone who thinks it is important to make sure this doesn't get addressed. Wondering why. My response to the first part of this question goes something like this...
What is quitting? Where would you stop using the word quitter...
~Not setting a lineup at all?
~Not benching your OUT players?
~Not benching your IR players?
~Not benching your Doubtful players?
~Not benching your Questionable players?
~Not considering/weighing defensive matchups?
~Not considering/weighing weather?
~Not considering past week production?
~Not considering average production?
~Not considering new injuries to teamates?
~Not working the waiver wire?
~Not setting optimal lineups?
Where do you draw the line? I can quit and make it look like I didn't by going through all the motions listed above at a half asses rate of intensity...I still quit...but I still remained active.
Integrity of the game? There is a big difference between cheating and quitting.
As for part two of your question...
All of these "solutions" presented here have gaping holes.
Grand Canyon sized gaping holes.
Paying who knows how much to program a automated lineup setting that will still benefit some teams one week and hurt other teams the next seems like chasing your tail.
For every team that benefits from these solutions...another team is hurt.
I am not a fan of big government holding everyones hand and setting their lineups and making everything automated.
In my honest opinion...blowing holes in every offered solution is the very best way to come to a better solution.
When you offer a solution attempt that gets the least holes blown into it...you have progress.
Stating over and over that I am trying to squash conversation about solutions is ludicrous. I'm doing the most I can by exposing loop holes in other folks solutions. I'm doing my best to help this conversation stay on course in an effort for progress.
Do I like quitters? Nope. If I needed a team to beat the better team in my league in order to have a chance in H2H record and they quit...I'd hate it. If I needed a team to quit when I played him to ensure a win for me...I'd love it. Have I quit? Nope. Someone will benefit from every scenario, and someone will not.
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
quote:Originally posted by GK:
I never said he was a quitter, John.
Maybe he remained active in Week 9 with FAAB, then after that knew his wife was due soon, and said "screw it" for the rest of the year? [/QUOTE]...he's a quitter then as your second paragraph here states so, no?...GK [/QB][/quote]
I was saying I never came out and said he was a quitter (using that term), Glenn.
But yes......if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
[/QB][/quote]
lol... I use that line a lot when I actually talk to an owner to find out what happened.
But I don't call anyone out until I know 100% of the facts.and history has shown that 90% of the time, a family, work or other serious issue WAY MORE important in life than fantasy football caused the problem.
It makes me cringe when KJ (or anyone) is posting these names when he doesn't have 100% of the facts. It's just not fair to those people.
quote:Originally posted by GK:
I never said he was a quitter, John.
Maybe he remained active in Week 9 with FAAB, then after that knew his wife was due soon, and said "screw it" for the rest of the year? [/QUOTE]...he's a quitter then as your second paragraph here states so, no?...GK [/QB][/quote]
I was saying I never came out and said he was a quitter (using that term), Glenn.
But yes......if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
[/QB][/quote]lol... I use that line a lot when I actually talk to an owner to find out what happened.
But I don't call anyone out until I know 100% of the facts.and history has shown that 90% of the time, a family, work or other serious issue WAY MORE important in life than fantasy football caused the problem.
It makes me cringe when KJ (or anyone) is posting these names when he doesn't have 100% of the facts. It's just not fair to those people.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by FantasyFactor:
It makes me cringe when KJ (or anyone) is posting these names when he doesn't have 100% of the facts. It's just not fair to those people. I just don't like excuses John. I know there are guys in this league with serious health issues that still field lineups. All of us have issues which tax our time/emotions/etc from time to time, and most still field a lineup.
Some may feel responsibility only to themselves and don't much care what happens if they're not winning - hopefully threads such as this encourage them to show some responsibility to the integrity of the competition.
It makes me cringe when KJ (or anyone) is posting these names when he doesn't have 100% of the facts. It's just not fair to those people. I just don't like excuses John. I know there are guys in this league with serious health issues that still field lineups. All of us have issues which tax our time/emotions/etc from time to time, and most still field a lineup.
Some may feel responsibility only to themselves and don't much care what happens if they're not winning - hopefully threads such as this encourage them to show some responsibility to the integrity of the competition.
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Glenneration X
- Posts: 1704
- Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:00 pm
- Location: Long Island, NY
Quitters ruin this contest....
With all due respect....please, lets not cross a line.
For every one person on this board who looks at this gentlemen with disdain for not taking the time away from the birth of his kid to set a fantasy football lineup, there's 100,000 others outside of this hobby who would look on him with disdain if he had.
I happen to have no problem with him not setting a lineup. I happen to believe he had his priorities straight.
Lets remember this hobby is just that....a hobby.
Its an expensive one, one we all love & take seriously, but its not the most important thing in our lives by a long shot....certainly not in mine.
Glenn
For every one person on this board who looks at this gentlemen with disdain for not taking the time away from the birth of his kid to set a fantasy football lineup, there's 100,000 others outside of this hobby who would look on him with disdain if he had.
I happen to have no problem with him not setting a lineup. I happen to believe he had his priorities straight.
Lets remember this hobby is just that....a hobby.
Its an expensive one, one we all love & take seriously, but its not the most important thing in our lives by a long shot....certainly not in mine.
Glenn
Quitters ruin this contest....
Glenn, I guess the lithmus test for me would be:
If whatever circumstances keeps a guy from setting his lineup on a bad team ALSO would've kept him from setting the lineup of a team where he had his own money on the line, then I'd be ok with it. But if you'll set your lineup in a league where your $5,000 on the line, but you won't if it's someone else's money - then I have a problem with it. If that makes John cringe, so be it, it isn't like this is a closed forum and a guy can't defend himself.
[ November 24, 2009, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
If whatever circumstances keeps a guy from setting his lineup on a bad team ALSO would've kept him from setting the lineup of a team where he had his own money on the line, then I'd be ok with it. But if you'll set your lineup in a league where your $5,000 on the line, but you won't if it's someone else's money - then I have a problem with it. If that makes John cringe, so be it, it isn't like this is a closed forum and a guy can't defend himself.
[ November 24, 2009, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]