I HAVE TO SAY I AGREE WITH KEVIN HERE TO A DEGREE AS WELL.
TRUE WE ALL HERE VALUE OUR FAMILY AND LOVED ONES FIRST BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT JUST GIVES YOU CARTE BLANCHE TO SAY WELL "I DIDN'T FIELD A LINEUP BECAUSE I WENT TO MY SON'S OR DAUGHTER PLAY" AND THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT.
ESPECIALLY LIKE KEVIN SAID IT TAKES ALL OF FIVE MINUTES OUT OF YOUR DAY TO SET ONE.
ALSO I BELIEVE THAT LESS THAN 3% OF PLAYERS HERE (IF THAT) WERE LEADING GOING INTO WEEK 16 OVERALL FOR THE $100,000 THEY WOULD LET ANYTHING GET IN THE WAY OF THEM FIELDING THEIR BEST LINEUP.
I KNOW MONEY IS EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT'S NOT. I ALWAYS SAY YOU WERE BORN WITHOUT IT AND YOU ARE GOING TO DIE WITHOUT IT BUT WE ALL (AT LEAST MOST) WANTS TO WIN THE PAPER AT THE END OF THE DAY.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes:
Originally posted by Renman:
[qb]
But when there is a h2h element to the contest (as there needs to be to have a viable and well supported event) each owner has a certain level of responsibility to not hurt the competitive integrity of the league do they not? Now if you are saying they do not, you are welcome to have that opinion. Is that what you are saying?
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Players do NOT have a responsibility to YOU or ME to finish the season.
Ugly, we will agree to disagree though I respect your right to have this opinion. I believe that with joining a fantasy football league that has a h2h component, every player has a RESPONSIBILITY to the other owners in the league, to play out the league to maintain competitive integrity. You believe people should be allowed to quit and owe the other owners no courtesy to keep the league proper.
I was one of the original players who was lobbying to have the NFFC use a service to put a better default lineup in on Monday or Tuesday before people start changing their lineups. I get the idea of wanting to get better lineups in for teams that quit. It would make for a better contest IMHO.
I think I remember this. As a matter of fact, I believe it was you who came up with the point that the NFFC site already provides and automated starting lineup each week that we owners begin manipulating come tuesday leading up to the next week. Which is what lead to the question I asked in my last post.
But I totally disagree with you that other owners have a responsibility to YOU or to ME to play when their teams are out of it. Are you kidding me?
No, I am not KIDDING you.. and I bet most others will agree with me. As I said earlier, I believe every owner (especially in ahigh stakes event) OWES IT to the others in the league and has a responsibility to at least try to field a proper lineup.
Originally posted by Renman:
[qb]
But when there is a h2h element to the contest (as there needs to be to have a viable and well supported event) each owner has a certain level of responsibility to not hurt the competitive integrity of the league do they not? Now if you are saying they do not, you are welcome to have that opinion. Is that what you are saying?
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Players do NOT have a responsibility to YOU or ME to finish the season.
Ugly, we will agree to disagree though I respect your right to have this opinion. I believe that with joining a fantasy football league that has a h2h component, every player has a RESPONSIBILITY to the other owners in the league, to play out the league to maintain competitive integrity. You believe people should be allowed to quit and owe the other owners no courtesy to keep the league proper.
I was one of the original players who was lobbying to have the NFFC use a service to put a better default lineup in on Monday or Tuesday before people start changing their lineups. I get the idea of wanting to get better lineups in for teams that quit. It would make for a better contest IMHO.
I think I remember this. As a matter of fact, I believe it was you who came up with the point that the NFFC site already provides and automated starting lineup each week that we owners begin manipulating come tuesday leading up to the next week. Which is what lead to the question I asked in my last post.
But I totally disagree with you that other owners have a responsibility to YOU or to ME to play when their teams are out of it. Are you kidding me?
No, I am not KIDDING you.. and I bet most others will agree with me. As I said earlier, I believe every owner (especially in ahigh stakes event) OWES IT to the others in the league and has a responsibility to at least try to field a proper lineup.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
Originally posted by Renman:
[qb] sportsbettingman,
What is your motivation to allow owners who quit in a high stakes fantasy football event the opportunity to negatively impact the competitive integrity, and ultimately, the overall experience for other participants in the league?
Why do you seem so intent on making sure this practice doesn't get interupted or addressed? I am curious. I ask with complete sincerity and hope you can answer without something sarcastic or off-topic... I just wonder why you seem so passionate about making sure no conversation about intervention regarding teams who quit. I have never met someone who thinks it is important to make sure this doesn't get addressed. Wondering why. My response to the first part of this question goes something like this...
What is quitting? Where would you stop using the word quitter...
~Not setting a lineup at all?
~Not benching your OUT players?
~Not benching your IR players?
~Not benching your Doubtful players?
~Not benching your Questionable players?
~Not considering/weighing defensive matchups?
~Not considering/weighing weather?
~Not considering past week production?
~Not considering average production?
~Not considering new injuries to teamates?
~Not working the waiver wire?
~Not setting optimal lineups?
Where do you draw the line? I can quit and make it look like I didn't by going through all the motions listed above at a half asses rate of intensity...I still quit...but I still remained active.
Sportsbettingman,
There are obviously different levels of quitting. The level we have been talking about during this time of the year EVERY YEAR THE NFFC HAS BEEN IN EXISTANCE is the practice of players on BYE or listed as OUT left in starting lineups when said team has viable replacement on his bench.
I have outlined this at least 15 times.
All the other things you listed to divert attention to the point (again) are irrelevant. No one has said we have to micro manage owners into being better owner. We are talking about a team that this owner already managed to a certain point.. the roster is in place.. the players on the roster HE secured. So players who are OUT should be replaced by players on THAT TEAM to make as viable a team as possible.
As for part two of your question...
All of these "solutions" presented here have gaping holes.
Grand Canyon sized gaping holes.
Paying who knows how much to program a automated lineup setting that will still benefit some teams one week and hurt other teams the next seems like chasing your tail.
I am no computer expert but I question how expensive this would be. Maybe a COMPUTER EXPERT can come shed light on this point.
For every team that benefits from these solutions...another team is hurt.
The "automated Tuesday lineup" benefits THE ENTIRE LEAGUE because it makes sure no players on BYE or listed as OUT are in any lineups. Doing nothing about this issue TRULY helps some teams and hurts others.
I am not a fan of big government holding everyones hand and setting their lineups and making everything automated.
Please stop the dramatic exaggerations. This isn't anything close to what you just described. It is ONE minor intervention for one issue that can be a MAJOR problem if ignored.
In my honest opinion...blowing holes in every offered solution is the very best way to come to a better solution.
I agree.. I have yet to see you come close to making a dent in this point, let alone blow a hole in it.
When you offer a solution attempt that gets the least holes blown into it...you have progress.
Stating over and over that I am trying to squash conversation about solutions is ludicrous. I'm doing the most I can by exposing loop holes in other folks solutions. I'm doing my best to help this conversation stay on course in an effort for progress.
You seem PASSIONATE about making sure we allow teams to start players listed as OUT or on BYE. I am just wondering why you are so passionate about making sure that continues.
Do I like quitters? Nope. If I needed a team to beat the better team in my league in order to have a chance in H2H record and they quit...I'd hate it. If I needed a team to quit when I played him to ensure a win for me...I'd love it. Have I quit? Nope. Someone will benefit from every scenario, and someone will not.
This statement is profound and tells me a TON about where competitive integrity falls on the list of what is important to you. This was the answer I was looking for from you. You cleared everything up.
Originally posted by Renman:
[qb] sportsbettingman,
What is your motivation to allow owners who quit in a high stakes fantasy football event the opportunity to negatively impact the competitive integrity, and ultimately, the overall experience for other participants in the league?
Why do you seem so intent on making sure this practice doesn't get interupted or addressed? I am curious. I ask with complete sincerity and hope you can answer without something sarcastic or off-topic... I just wonder why you seem so passionate about making sure no conversation about intervention regarding teams who quit. I have never met someone who thinks it is important to make sure this doesn't get addressed. Wondering why. My response to the first part of this question goes something like this...
What is quitting? Where would you stop using the word quitter...
~Not setting a lineup at all?
~Not benching your OUT players?
~Not benching your IR players?
~Not benching your Doubtful players?
~Not benching your Questionable players?
~Not considering/weighing defensive matchups?
~Not considering/weighing weather?
~Not considering past week production?
~Not considering average production?
~Not considering new injuries to teamates?
~Not working the waiver wire?
~Not setting optimal lineups?
Where do you draw the line? I can quit and make it look like I didn't by going through all the motions listed above at a half asses rate of intensity...I still quit...but I still remained active.
Sportsbettingman,
There are obviously different levels of quitting. The level we have been talking about during this time of the year EVERY YEAR THE NFFC HAS BEEN IN EXISTANCE is the practice of players on BYE or listed as OUT left in starting lineups when said team has viable replacement on his bench.
I have outlined this at least 15 times.
All the other things you listed to divert attention to the point (again) are irrelevant. No one has said we have to micro manage owners into being better owner. We are talking about a team that this owner already managed to a certain point.. the roster is in place.. the players on the roster HE secured. So players who are OUT should be replaced by players on THAT TEAM to make as viable a team as possible.
As for part two of your question...
All of these "solutions" presented here have gaping holes.
Grand Canyon sized gaping holes.
Paying who knows how much to program a automated lineup setting that will still benefit some teams one week and hurt other teams the next seems like chasing your tail.
I am no computer expert but I question how expensive this would be. Maybe a COMPUTER EXPERT can come shed light on this point.
For every team that benefits from these solutions...another team is hurt.
The "automated Tuesday lineup" benefits THE ENTIRE LEAGUE because it makes sure no players on BYE or listed as OUT are in any lineups. Doing nothing about this issue TRULY helps some teams and hurts others.
I am not a fan of big government holding everyones hand and setting their lineups and making everything automated.
Please stop the dramatic exaggerations. This isn't anything close to what you just described. It is ONE minor intervention for one issue that can be a MAJOR problem if ignored.
In my honest opinion...blowing holes in every offered solution is the very best way to come to a better solution.
I agree.. I have yet to see you come close to making a dent in this point, let alone blow a hole in it.
When you offer a solution attempt that gets the least holes blown into it...you have progress.
Stating over and over that I am trying to squash conversation about solutions is ludicrous. I'm doing the most I can by exposing loop holes in other folks solutions. I'm doing my best to help this conversation stay on course in an effort for progress.
You seem PASSIONATE about making sure we allow teams to start players listed as OUT or on BYE. I am just wondering why you are so passionate about making sure that continues.
Do I like quitters? Nope. If I needed a team to beat the better team in my league in order to have a chance in H2H record and they quit...I'd hate it. If I needed a team to quit when I played him to ensure a win for me...I'd love it. Have I quit? Nope. Someone will benefit from every scenario, and someone will not.
This statement is profound and tells me a TON about where competitive integrity falls on the list of what is important to you. This was the answer I was looking for from you. You cleared everything up.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Glenn, I guess the lithmus test for me would be:
If whatever circumstances keeps a guy from setting his lineup on a bad team ALSO would've kept him from setting the lineup of a team where he had his own money on the line, then I'd be ok with it. But if you'll set your lineup in a league where your $5,000 on the line, but you won't if it's someone else's money - then I have a problem with it. If that makes John cringe, so be it, it isn't like this is a closed forum and a guy can't defend himself. I have not been paying attention AT ALL to this discussion about a specific owner and not fielding a lineup, childbirth, and whatever else.
But I have to agree with this above point as it relates to the TOPIC OF THE THREAD.
KJDuke,
A few posts ago another poster said he does not believe owners have any responsibility to the other owners in the league to field a proper or reasonable lineup in leagues that has a H2H component. I disagreed and believe most people think all owners have this responsibility and owe it to the others in the league. Your above post seemed to echo my point.
Glenn, I guess the lithmus test for me would be:
If whatever circumstances keeps a guy from setting his lineup on a bad team ALSO would've kept him from setting the lineup of a team where he had his own money on the line, then I'd be ok with it. But if you'll set your lineup in a league where your $5,000 on the line, but you won't if it's someone else's money - then I have a problem with it. If that makes John cringe, so be it, it isn't like this is a closed forum and a guy can't defend himself. I have not been paying attention AT ALL to this discussion about a specific owner and not fielding a lineup, childbirth, and whatever else.
But I have to agree with this above point as it relates to the TOPIC OF THE THREAD.
KJDuke,
A few posts ago another poster said he does not believe owners have any responsibility to the other owners in the league to field a proper or reasonable lineup in leagues that has a H2H component. I disagreed and believe most people think all owners have this responsibility and owe it to the others in the league. Your above post seemed to echo my point.
-
Sound Advice
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:00 pm
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by Renman:
"...What is your motivation to allow owners who quit in a high stakes fantasy football event the opportunity to negatively impact the competitive integrity, and ultimately, the overall experience for other participants in the league?
Why do you seem so intent on making sure this practice doesn't get interupted or addressed? I am curious. I ask with complete sincerity and hope you can answer without something sarcastic or off-topic... I just wonder why you seem so passionate about making sure no conversation about intervention regarding teams who quit. I have never met someone who thinks it is important to make sure this doesn't get addressed. Wondering why." Because trying to assist teams that "quit" is idiotic.
Getting bent because someone doesn't set a full line-up is really misguided.
Saying they should be banned or fined is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I mean that with all seriousness.
"...What is your motivation to allow owners who quit in a high stakes fantasy football event the opportunity to negatively impact the competitive integrity, and ultimately, the overall experience for other participants in the league?
Why do you seem so intent on making sure this practice doesn't get interupted or addressed? I am curious. I ask with complete sincerity and hope you can answer without something sarcastic or off-topic... I just wonder why you seem so passionate about making sure no conversation about intervention regarding teams who quit. I have never met someone who thinks it is important to make sure this doesn't get addressed. Wondering why." Because trying to assist teams that "quit" is idiotic.
Getting bent because someone doesn't set a full line-up is really misguided.
Saying they should be banned or fined is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I mean that with all seriousness.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Sound,
Assist the teams who quit to get what? Change their record from 2-8 to 3-8?
This is about assisting the REST OF THE LEAGUE so their league experience isn't ruined by the championship being impacted by a team who QUIT. Who wins and loses a fantasy football contest (especially a high stakes one) should be based on what happens on the football field combined with the decisions the fantasy players make with their teams.
It should not be impacted by which team happened to draw the guy after he quit on the league and thus gets a free win. Especially if we have the technology to fix it.
So if I am reading this correctly... you are saying it is important that we continue to do nothing about owners who quit on leagues and leave players listed as OUT or on BYE in their lineup.
The majority of people seem to think this is an issue worthy of addressing and dealing with. Would it be fair to say you are on the side of making sure we let teams quit and impact the league results because of it? I respect anyones right to an opinion.. I just want to make sure I am reading yours accurately.
Assist the teams who quit to get what? Change their record from 2-8 to 3-8?
This is about assisting the REST OF THE LEAGUE so their league experience isn't ruined by the championship being impacted by a team who QUIT. Who wins and loses a fantasy football contest (especially a high stakes one) should be based on what happens on the football field combined with the decisions the fantasy players make with their teams.
It should not be impacted by which team happened to draw the guy after he quit on the league and thus gets a free win. Especially if we have the technology to fix it.
So if I am reading this correctly... you are saying it is important that we continue to do nothing about owners who quit on leagues and leave players listed as OUT or on BYE in their lineup.
The majority of people seem to think this is an issue worthy of addressing and dealing with. Would it be fair to say you are on the side of making sure we let teams quit and impact the league results because of it? I respect anyones right to an opinion.. I just want to make sure I am reading yours accurately.
Quitters ruin this contest....
Renman, can you please point to the specific cases where teams quitting have caused harm to the other league members? How many times has this affected the outcome of league standings? Can you show where you have been affected? Can you tell me how you know a majority of people think this is a problem? Can you tell me how many pages this thread would be if you hadn't repeated yourself and your points, which smart fantasy minds like those here shouldn't need to read that many times to get your points? Thanks
You'll be fine long as your pretty face holds out, then it's gonna get pretty cold out...
Quitters ruin this contest....
You can simply call the wife from work before she heads to the hospital and ask her to update your lineup. She'd be happy to - see ?
Quitters ruin this contest....
Quitters are going to happen, period. Trying to manage out quitters is an exercise in futility. And I will not risk another $100 (as proposed) to try to get quitters motivated.
It still sucks, however.
It still sucks, however.
2008- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
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Gordon Gekko II
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:00 pm
Quitters ruin this contest....
Originally posted by Just Russ:
Quitters are going to happen, period. Trying to manage out quitters is an exercise in futility. And I will not risk another $100 (as proposed) to try to get quitters motivated.
It still sucks, however. agreed. the quitters will STILL quit...that's why they are called "quitters".
like i said b4, H2H LOVERS, need to realize quitters will be linked to H2H for eternity.
Quitters are going to happen, period. Trying to manage out quitters is an exercise in futility. And I will not risk another $100 (as proposed) to try to get quitters motivated.
It still sucks, however. agreed. the quitters will STILL quit...that's why they are called "quitters".
like i said b4, H2H LOVERS, need to realize quitters will be linked to H2H for eternity.