Quitters ruin this contest....

renman · Post by **renman** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:15 am

Originally posted by 4D:
Renman, can you please point to the specific cases where teams quitting have caused harm to the other league members? How many times has this affected the outcome of league standings? Can you show where you have been affected? Can you tell me how you know a majority of people think this is a problem? Can you tell me how many pages this thread would be if you hadn't repeated yourself and your points, which smart fantasy minds like those here shouldn't need to read that many times to get your points? Thanks 4D,

I have said countless times here I personally (that I can remember) have never been impacted by a quitting team hurting the competitive integrity of a fantasy football league. I just happen to not be one of those people who ignores obvious issues up until the moment they impact me. I also am quite fond of the NFFC and always enjoy discussing ways to make it better and more supported than other events in the market.

This issue comes up every single year. The same discussion is going on on other message boards. If you are going to sit here and tell me you do not think this is a real issue, or somehow need "proof" that it is, it will be very hard to ever take a thing you say regarding fantasy football serious again.

Also, you may not be aware of this, but if you don't like the topic, or length of the thread, you are not required to click on it. I am sure there are others for you to post in.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:41 am

Originally posted by 4D:
Renman, can you please point to the specific cases where teams quitting have caused harm to the other league members? How many times has this affected the outcome of league standings? Can you show where you have been affected? Can you tell me how you know a majority of people think this is a problem? Can you tell me how many pages this thread would be if you hadn't repeated yourself and your points, which smart fantasy minds like those here shouldn't need to read that many times to get your points? Thanks The subject head is getting annoying even to me. "Quitters ruin this contest..." seems to mean that we have many instances where h2h is being impacted weekly by quitting owners and that's just not the case. I just went through every single league yesterday in both main events and the majority of leagues are being led by teams with the best h2h record and total points.

Now that being said, there's no question that other owners' decisions with lineup changes and even FAAB bids affect a league outcome. Heck, those quitting owners you refer to probably have the most FAAB money right now too and could secure the Washington Redskins' new starting RB this week if they wanted. But if they don't bid then it's possible a top tier team will get him. Should we institute an automatic FAAB bidding system too?

James, you've made your point to everyone. You are leading this crusade, but your point is being driven home again and again and again. We get it.

It's a good subject, but quitters affect EVERY fantasy football contest, not just this one. And our setup for the league prizes and overall prizes rewards the teams who score the most points while still allowing the fun of h2h action. We'll look at the default setup next year, but honestly changing everyone's lineup from the week before affects more people than those few teams that fail to take one minute per week to take a BYE player out of their starting lineup.

Just my two cents.

renman · Post by **renman** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:58 am

Greg,

No doubt. The issue of a quitter team hurting a league, though a legit issue, happens seldom. But it does happen and enrages people every year. It is a big topic of discussion on another forum with another event as we speak.

I am active in the discussion but not leading the crusade. I didn't start the topic. And while I agree with you that we can assume my viewpoint has been driven home, just a few posts ago 2 posters made it clear they have no idea what my viewpoint is based on their arguments. Do I ignore that or clarify/repeat my point?

For the record (and I have said this before) for me, this isn't about owners who are not active in faab. THis is about the specific situation where an owner ignores his responsibility to the other league members and starts players listed as OUT or on BYE with viable options on his bench. Thus his actual team isn't facing the opponent who was lucky enough to draw him that week, only a portion of his team is.

I believe that can be fixed.. others believe that can be fixed. Just about everyone I know in the fantasy football industry thinks it is an issue worth addressing. Luckily in the NFFC we value total points so much that the issue gets lessened by that alone.

I believe 99% of the players in the event manipulate or at least view their lineups during the week before kickoff. The current system gives us an automatic lineup already. I just thought that King of Queens came up with a good idea that all but eliminates this issue.

I wont post on the topic anymore if you prefer I not, though I believe a steady and lasting debate (among informed people) can be a good thing. But when people misrepresent my point it sort of requires me correct the record.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:10 am

Those that get burned by H2H, those who quit, or whatever else are HARDLY EVER vocal until it affects them.

It seems as if many people for some reason or another have "agendas" to change things the way they want. Funny thing is, once it finally does get changed, many times those same people are the one's who get "screwed" by their rule, and want it changed back. :rolleyes:

This is still BY FAR the best high stakes league around when you account for all the things that make a great contest.....customer service, putting bids into FAAB, awarding teams who score points, owners that listen, etc.

If you don't like it here, I can only imagine what you think of some of the other contests out there?

I think the difference is that Greg and Tom have always listened to ideas when some/most of the other contests do not. This generally leads to people "taking advantage" and trying to change everything to their liking.

I think the day before Thanksgiving is a perfect opportunity to "give thanks" to the NFFC, and be happy with what we have.....not what we do not have.

[ November 25, 2009, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:16 am

I don't believe ANYONE at FUNBALL should touch a lineup at any time. I do however feel an email from FANBALL to an owner who hasn't viewed his lineup all week 24 hours before the first NFL game starts is a legitimate answer to this thread. It could be AUTO setup very easily. I'm tired of people trying to take the human element out of this game. As I stated in another thread, referees screw me more than some guy not making lineup changes so if you want to do everyone a favor, petition and bitch to Roger Goodell to fix his part of the human element.

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:28 am

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
It seems as if many people for some reason or another have "agendas" to change things the way they want. would you count yourself in that group?

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:30 am

Originally posted by Just Russ:
Quitters are going to happen, period. Trying to manage out quitters is an exercise in futility. And I will not risk another $100 (as proposed) to try to get quitters motivated.

This is not an all or nothing circumstance, less quitters is better than more; and it already has been proven (not to mention intuitive with any consideration of human nature) that less players will quit if they still have something to play for.

And as for not being willing to risk another $100 for a high weekly scrore prize, I'd bet a lot of money that both you and Gekko would still play (and you'd probably like it after the first year).

[ November 25, 2009, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:35 am

Originally posted by Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
It seems as if many people for some reason or another have "agendas" to change things the way they want. would you count yourself in that group? [/QUOTE]No.

Sure, I have opinions and suggestions, but if they don't get changed, I'm not going to browbeat it into the ground.

Maybe there will be something that changes that in the future (hope not), but for now I am very happy with the NFFC.

renman · Post by **renman** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:02 am

Billy,

I hope you are not implying I was browbeating anything. This is a discussion, and at times a debate. Discussions and debates sometimes last. If anyone is put off by the discussion (not saying this is you) they are welcome to not click on the thread right?

I believe it was a VERY VERY VERY long debate and ongoing discussion that ultimately lead us to KDS and 3RR. while obviously this issue isn't on the level of importance of that one, there is still nothing wrong with an ongoing discussion about it, even if things get repeated.

When someone believes we can or should do something about this issue... and someone gives the argument that we should do nothing and just sit on our hands like were in a Yahoo league, shouldn't the poeple who believe we can or should do something give their counter viewpoints, even if they get repeated, or just go silent because they stated their case on page 6 of the thread (a post that most haven't read)?

None of this means I am not THRILLED with the NFFC product. Few people pimp the NFFC both here and in the fantasy football market as passionately as me.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:11 am

Originally posted by Renman:

I believe it was a VERY VERY VERY long debate and ongoing discussion that ultimately lead us to KDS and 3RR. while obviously this issue isn't on the level of importance of that one, there is still nothing wrong with an ongoing discussion about it, even if things get repeated.

a bounded printout of the KDS and 3RR debates. Boys we got work to do ! Now lets get debatin'!