Quitters ruin this contest....

BLACKHAND · Post by **BLACKHAND** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:10 am

i just dont understand owners not wanting to better the system. there is not any reason to get rude with each other. all most of us want is FAIR PLAY.why should a team owner get screwed out of 5k for something that is basicly cheating.you are never going to please everyone but at least try to improve. maybe h2h is outdated. maybe a play-all system is what is needed.instead of fighting each other or just saying nothing can be done why cant all of you smart guys come up with an idea.

renman · Post by **renman** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:48 pm

blackhand... this is my 1st ever message from a phone to bear with me. your post is my exact point. why cant this be discussed...even at length via a long, many page discussion/debate without people getting hostile? it boggles my mind. some good ideas have been thrown out and some good rebuttals or examples of why some of those ideas may not work were brought up (specifically by gekko and fantasyfactor)....

isn't this a good thing? why the complaining?

on a sidenote, we can eliminate SOME human element from things and have steadily accomplished it successfully over time.

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:55 pm

RENMAN, I have been discussing this and you don't want to hear what I have to say.

This is a game played by humans and therefore, to take the humans out of the game and say, "You know what, if I don't like your lineup, I want someone to program the computer to change it", sucks. Why? Because if we were to go back to the archives you will find this topic taking up 25 pages every year. I know in either 2005 or 2006 I started a thread for all-play because the team that was 11th in total points in our league won the $5k because back then, H2H was king, and the guy won because of the luck of the schedule.

Let's face it, Ren, you can't take every single luck factor or human factor out of the game just for the sake of a handful of people who think this is unfair or that is unfair. If you don't like the way the game is played, either don't play or get over it. But whether it's teams who aren't fielding legit teams because they either quit or have been bought off by a competitive team, or whether it's referees who I've wanted to sue for costing me $5k with a call they admitted was bad and apologized for the next day, or whether it was a player costing me $100k by pulling a 2008 Westbrook or 2009 Jones-Drew and falling down at the 1, the fact is, this is a game organized and put on by humans and played by humans and therefore will never be perfect. End of story once you accept that.

The only cure for this is all-play, so that everyone gets to play Mr. I-Don't-Care-Anymore when he decides to ignore his team. If/When you can sell FANBALL on that over h2h, then your issue will be solved. Until then, forget it and get over it.

mikeybok · Post by **mikeybok** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:15 pm

Originally posted by Renman:
why cant this be discussed...even at length via a long, many page discussion/debate without people getting hostile? it boggles my mind. To answer your question.

People get hostile "with you" because you repeat yourself over and over and over again. You can't understand how someone could disagree with you ... so you assume they must not understand. This causes you repeat yourself because you figure if they could just understand your point of view they would surely change their point of view to yours.

Look how many posts you have in this topic and see how many new ideas you actually offered. You seem like a decent relatively bright guy ... you just don't seem to understand someone can fully understand your point of view and still disagree with it. It's almost like you don't think that's possible (if they REALLY understood your point of view)

Just my 2 cents.

Big Mike

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:26 pm

Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes:
To answer your question.

People get hostile "with you" because you repeat yourself over and over and over again. You can't understand how someone could disagree with you ... so you assume they must not understand. This causes you repeat yourself because you figure if they could just understand your point of view they would surely change their point of view to yours.

Look how many posts you have in this topic and see how many new ideas you actually offered. You seem like a decent relatively bright guy ... you just don't seem to understand someone can fully understand your point of view and still disagree with it. It's almost like you don't think that's possible (if they REALLY understood your point of view)

Just my 2 cents.

Big Mike youtube version of renman...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJpqbt5gEco

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:43 pm

HA!!!!!!!

Leroy's Aces · Post by **Leroy's Aces** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:09 pm

Greg, as a paying participant of the NFFC, I wanted to offer my 2 cents.

I am satisfied with the system as it currently stands. I understand that my teams may or may not gain or suffer because of a small percentage of participants that do not put full effort into their team throughout the entire season. I accept that risk when I buy my teams and I am fine that a potential slacker owner could be part of the overall experience.

Frankly, unless I am chasing a certain team for points or in a league title game, I rarely even look at my opponent's lineup or team, so maybe I just miss these advantages or disadvantages. I am just trying to score the most points and am only concerned about optimizing my team.

Good luck this week everyone.

KenGill · Post by **KenGill** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:59 am

Some good points have been made on this topic. I am now thinking that the only thing that STATS should do is eliminate bye week and IR players from the weekly default roster. In other words, players who are not going to play and are guaranteed to put up a zero. Players listed as "out" will not known until Friday, which is too late in the week. I would leave those decisions up to the owners.

I look at it this way. This contest should be as much like real football as possible without taking the "human element" out of it. In the NFL, 11 guys line up on offense and 11 on defense each week. Nobody plays with less than 22 players. Therefore nobody in the NFFC should play with less than a full roster because of bye weeks or IR players. But other than that, leave the decisions up to the individual owners. That seems to be a resonable compromise.

renman · Post by **renman** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:00 am

Originally posted by Tamuscarecrow:
quote:
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Originally posted by Moonlight Graham:

quote]
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Because the OUTS aren't listed as OUT until the official Friday injury report comes out. That's why !!!

Let me say it again, for the integrity of FANBALL, NOONE needs to be changing anyone's lineups. A courtesy email 24 hours before the kickoff of the first NFL game each week is the best they will be able to do. This idea of the game organizer changing lineups for participants in its game is utterly stupid. YOU CANNOT TAKE THE HUMAN ELEMENT OUT OF THE GAME. Tamu,

No one that I have seen has asked the game organizeers to be changing lineups. All I was doing was THROWING OUT GENERAL IDEAS on ways to address what is clearly a problem every year. I cannot understand why people get so hostile about this.

By the way... trades would be an example of a "human element" ... has that been taken out of the game? There are LOTS of examples of where the human element "where mistakes or problems can often occur" has been removed from the game (instant replay) to make things better.

Having said that... I think your idea of sending out a courtesy email (maybe after the midpoint of the season) 24 hours before kickoff is helpful. I think that combined with this issue being specifically addressed on draft day in each city would go a long way to help things too.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:11 am

Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
Greg, as a paying participant of the NFFC, I wanted to offer my 2 cents.

I am satisfied with the system as it currently stands. I understand that my teams may or may not gain or suffer because of a small percentage of participants that do not put full effort into their team throughout the entire season. I accept that risk when I buy my teams and I am fine that a potential slacker owner could be part of the overall experience.

Frankly, unless I am chasing a certain team for points or in a league title game, I rarely even look at my opponent's lineup or team, so maybe I just miss these advantages or disadvantages. I am just trying to score the most points and am only concerned about optimizing my team.

Good luck this week everyone. I agree