Best h2h format for 2005 ?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:58 am

Dyv, we'll work together on this, but please don't compare any fantasy playoff format with the BCS. That's a joke. Our fantasy playoff system needs to be fair and easy to understand and right now it is. Is it perfect? No, but it never will be because someone will always be screwed by the format.

Let's look at Chicago League 4. Team Cannataro is 11-1 and has won 11 straight games and will win $5,000. Vegas Gamblers is tied for second place in h2h at 9-3, but might not win any money. The team that is fourth in h2h will likely win $1,500 for total points and the team that is eighth in h2h (5-7) will likely finish with third place money for total points as he's 19th overall. Is it fair that the 11-1 team wins $5,000 and the 5-7 team wins just $500 and is left out of the playoffs? Wow, that obviously was a lot of tough matchups for the #19 overall team, but it happens in fantasy football. That team will have the most points heading into the Consolation Bowl ($2,500 for first) and next year we'll make sure that team gets in the playoffs through added wild cards.

Now a one-game playoff between the top two teams would solve the 5k dilemma, but #19 would still be left with $500 in this scenario, right? Unfortunately, those were the breaks for this team. Had we gone all-play or total points, he might have had better fortune (notice I didn't say luck).

Guidance? How about:
1) Add wild cards in 2005 to make sure the top 10% point scorers don't get left out of the playoffs.
2) Increase second and third place league money.
3) Create a one-week championship game?
4) Use all-play h2h format?
5) Add draft bidding for slots?

Dyv, I haven't admitted there is a problem, but I do admit the system can be improved. Fantasy football is different from fantasy baseball, where you accumulate stats for the whole year and measure up with your opponents at the end of the year. That may explain why h2h baseball is catching on more and more each year; people want that won-loss thrill they don't get in Rotisserie baseball. Going 11-1 or 5-7 is a BIG difference, but in our system we need to reward both teams because they both were skilled owners this year.

I've listed five options to improve the system. Feel free to add others and we'll keep discussing, but you are correct, I don't see the system completely flawed like others do and I guess I'd need more convincing before making a complete overhaul of the NFFC payout and playoff structure.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:02 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
3) Create a one-week championship game?
3 week league championship, concurrent with the NFFC main playoffs

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:10 am

Fair enough, Greg. I know you'll listen to what's being said, you always have and I understand that

I think the catch-all rules of wildcards are just emergency rules instead of addressing the problem. I would LOVE to maintain 2 teams from each league making the playoffs and would rather you focus on how to make sure you get the best 2 teams into the playoffs than figure out how to make sure we fix up the results at the end. There will still be one team at the end who was 1 pt. short of the automatic entry into the playoffs who is clearly better than 10 teams who did make it.

Let's talk about all-play H2H. Why NOT do that?

Dave

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:12 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
3) Create a one-week championship game?
3 week league championship, concurrent with the NFFC main playoffs [/QUOTE]This would at least guarantee that your overall prize winner was also a league winner... and it appears fair to both playoff teams?

Dyv

[ November 30, 2004, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Dyv ]

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:17 am

Originally posted by Dyv:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
3) Create a one-week championship game?
3 week league championship, concurrent with the NFFC main playoffs [/QUOTE]This would at least guarantee that your overall prize winner was also a league winner... and it appears fair to both playoff teams?

Dyv [/QUOTE]

[ November 30, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: JerseyPaul ]

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:19 am

Greg, in Chicago League 4 I think it's hard to argue that Team Cannataro was 'brilliant' or 'skilled' in going 11-1 so far this year. At 49th overall he's put in a solid effort and a very respectable finish... 3rd highest points in his league he should deserve a $500 payout and a job well done.

But the guy who is currently 48th overall and .5 more points is a better owner so far this year. The 11-1 part had absolutely NOTHING to do with him that was pure luck. Or did he do something that I don't understand to generate that record?

Dyv

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:22 am

Dyv and GG, would we then have three weeks of threads between those two league teams asking if they wanted to split the $7,250 pot (next year's payout hopefully)? GG said that's just good business, but I don't want to see that. I want to see one team rewarded with a $5,000 prize for being the best team in that league. H2H over 13 weeks can determine that, but some people obviously don't agree.

Dyv, let's figure out how to get the two best teams from each league into the playoffs. H2H and total points isn't it???? If we just went total points, then Team Cannataro gets nothing for going 11-1 and it makes each weekly matchup meaningless. So help here.

I'm more than willing to tweak the system, but show me a better example of making sure the two best teams from each league are duly compensated and reach the playoffs. That's what we can focus on.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:31 am

Dyv, he was brilliant enough to beat 13 other teams in his league and fortunate enough to garner the right matchups. The 48th best team didn't have that good "fortune" if you will, but still has the potential to make money in the NFFC.

I hear what you're saying, but is the NFFC playoff format really hurt by Team Cannataro making the playoffs? Or are we bummed that he "earned" $5,000, when some people think he deserved "only" $500.

If we really want to state who the most skilled owners are, then I guess we can just look at the overall standings and applaud the top owners. But 26 of the top 32 scoring teams WOULD make the playoffs if the season ended today and someone will get "fortunate" over the last three weeks of the NFFC season and win $100,000.

Improving any setup is a great discussion, so I want to keep hearing from the group and I applaud your suggestions. Even if we agree to disagree, we're all just trying to improve the system and I see no wrong in that. I just wish we were doing it over Corona's rather than over the Internet.

By the way, your Lions looked REAL good on Thanksgiving Day!!! How 'bout my Packers last night? That Davenpoop sure is a load, isn't he?

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:54 am

I can't admire what Cannataro has done... because he had nothing to do with it! He just showed up and fortune turned his way. Like the Lions winning a few games early. That didn't make them a good team regardless of what people said, lol

That backup pooper you have there isn't half bad - was his day to come roaring out of the laundry basket... hehe. On another thread I predicted the Lions would keep it close at 41-10, they let me down and lost 41-9... lol.

I have no problem with you deciding something else and I understand all of the balancing act you face...

Let me see if I can address a few specific ones:

- You could just split the $7250 pot for them and after week 13 award $3,000 to best H2H record and next highest points and recognize BOTH achievements. I have trouble with the notion that Cannataro gets $5k and the highest point total in the league gets $1500. Recognize both are equally impressive (if you must) and split the league cash evenly for the top 2 spots. Why not? 3rd place can get $750 and there we go, efficient and doesn't penalize someone. Just as Cannataro can get recognized, why not the poor fella who was 'unfortunate' enough to be in his league and have the best team getting some love!!!

- I think the playoff format for Cannataro is hurt by him making the finals. He's the longest shot (by far) to win the $100k as he has to PASS 31 other teams to do so. Perhaps he'd rather be a serious contender for one of the 4 consolation prizes than have minimal shot in the Playoff bracket? I know if I were him and I saw a 25 pt. deficit and 31 teams ahead of me I'd be tempted to go for the 'more likely' thing and stay in the consolation pool. He's not hurting Team New because he's just filling space at the back

Fire some thoughts on this if you would, Greg (or anyone)? Let me make my case(s):

1. Why NOT do an All play H2H format? What don't you like?

2. What's wrong with splitting league cash among top 2 in each league... recognize the points leader and the H2H fortune leader. Someone else (KofQ?) even suggested giving a pot for the most points so if you won your league AND had most points you get more - intriguing, but not sure how it would work?

3. I would rather you take the top X (top 30, top 50, whatever) in overall points to the final playoff bracket as those are CLEARLY the best teams (nobody arguing they are not, correct?). Then, if you want to, give 2 or 3 slots to 'next best record who didn't make it' to recognize their efforts. But let them CHOOSE which bracket to enter. Why not!?? Default is they are in the big money bracket, but they can opt out. I know you want to recognize the traditional league champ methodology with H2H. Fine, I can live with it, but don't PENALIZE the guy who scored the most points!! That sucks! I can tell you now if I had most points in Chicago #4 and Cannataro fell into the money I would be very ticked at the design and payout...

Also, note that the H2H format is NOT conducive to producing the best overall prize pool. It wasn't designed for a multiple league format and retrofitting it to do so causes these problems. True?

Happy to have the chat and Corona's are guaranteed next meeting

Dyv

[ November 30, 2004, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Dyv ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:05 am

Originally posted by Dyv:
Someone else (JP?) even suggested giving a pot for the most points so if you won your league AND had most points you get more - intriguing, but not sure how it would work?
See the "Week 12 Statistics" link in General NFFC Discussion for the author of this idea.