Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
tom, can you give your "personal" opinion on having a league playoff for the top record team and the most points team (if they aren't the same team)? thanks.I don't have a problem with it, Gordon. My personal feeling is that total points is probably the strongest way to decide who the best team is in a particular league, but I also know the vast majority of fantasy football players prefer and enjoy the H2H format so I don't think you should discount a team's record. If a team is able to go 13-0 but finishes sixth in total points why should that team be punished? I don't believe it should. I believe there should be a reward in place which is what we have here. Conversely if a team goes 6-6-1 and is 2nd in the league in points -- which I happen to have in the KP2 Expert League -- then I believe that team should be rewarded as well since it clearly was one of the best teams in the league no matter what the record says. So with the NFFC, we have a system in place that (hopefully) does reward the best teams to the best of our ability to do so.
So what we do here by combining the two elements and then ultimately allowing the total points factor to decide the champion after the playoffs is, in my opinion, a terrific format.
No format is perfect and you're always going to have people who prefer one format over another. That's just the way it's going to be. But I think we have a set-up in place that not only is exciting for participants, but one that really will reward the best team. Can the system be improved? Sure and that's why Greg and I do read the posts here and via e-mail and are happy to take the phone calls from everyone in this contest (as well as the NFBC). We want to make both of our contests as user-friendly and engaging as possible. I think we've taken some tremendous steps forward with the NFBC and NFFC this year and as we go along and make improvements along the way I firmly believe both events are going to be even better in the years to come.
Gordon Mad?
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Tom Kessenich
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Gordon Mad?
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Gordon Mad?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Again Gordon, I see your point on this, but as long as we are playing head to head (which Greg & Tom prefer), the head to head winner has to receive more than the best points.you are on an island my friend. [/QUOTE]Gordo,
I am not disputing that total points is probably a better way to determine who is the best team (takes the majority of luck out), BUT (and this is what you fail to acknowledge), as long as KP wants to keep the head to head format, that is who is going to get the most money. Why even play head to head (play everyone plays everyone each week) if you aren't going to make it the most important thing.
Frankly, it doesn't matter what format is used (record or points), as I am confident in my abilities either way. I just feel if you are playing head to head, the overall record has to be more important than total points.
As far as me being on an island, I think Greg and Tom see my point as well. If I was truly by myself...oh well! I'm not going to "dance" just because you say so Gordo! :rolleyes:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Again Gordon, I see your point on this, but as long as we are playing head to head (which Greg & Tom prefer), the head to head winner has to receive more than the best points.you are on an island my friend. [/QUOTE]Gordo,
I am not disputing that total points is probably a better way to determine who is the best team (takes the majority of luck out), BUT (and this is what you fail to acknowledge), as long as KP wants to keep the head to head format, that is who is going to get the most money. Why even play head to head (play everyone plays everyone each week) if you aren't going to make it the most important thing.
Frankly, it doesn't matter what format is used (record or points), as I am confident in my abilities either way. I just feel if you are playing head to head, the overall record has to be more important than total points.
As far as me being on an island, I think Greg and Tom see my point as well. If I was truly by myself...oh well! I'm not going to "dance" just because you say so Gordo! :rolleyes:
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Gordon Gekko
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Gordon Mad?
Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
My personal feeling is that total points is probably the strongest way to decide who the best team is in a particular league if YOU (Tom Kessenich) were an OWNER in the NFFC, would it be accurate to say that you would think it's a better system to have a league playoff between the best record and the most points? i'm going by you saying "total points is probably the strongest way to decide who the best team is in a particular league".
forget about the so-called fantasy masses (which btw doesn't include the WCOFF since they have a league champ playoff), i just want to know what Tom Kessenich the individual owner would think. thanks for being so candid.
My personal feeling is that total points is probably the strongest way to decide who the best team is in a particular league if YOU (Tom Kessenich) were an OWNER in the NFFC, would it be accurate to say that you would think it's a better system to have a league playoff between the best record and the most points? i'm going by you saying "total points is probably the strongest way to decide who the best team is in a particular league".
forget about the so-called fantasy masses (which btw doesn't include the WCOFF since they have a league champ playoff), i just want to know what Tom Kessenich the individual owner would think. thanks for being so candid.
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
Gordon Mad?
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Although the head to head has less control, it does create that certain "personal" feeling each week, as you have to try and matchup against your opponent. Maybe this why we're on the outside looking in, but how exactly do you control how you 'matchup against your opponent?'. As for a 'personal' aspect, I wouldn't know anyone in my league if I tripped over them - H2H adds an unnecessary element of luck with no tangible benefit.
Although the head to head has less control, it does create that certain "personal" feeling each week, as you have to try and matchup against your opponent. Maybe this why we're on the outside looking in, but how exactly do you control how you 'matchup against your opponent?'. As for a 'personal' aspect, I wouldn't know anyone in my league if I tripped over them - H2H adds an unnecessary element of luck with no tangible benefit.
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Gordon Gekko
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Gordon Mad?
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
I am not disputing that total points is probably a better way to determine who is the best team (takes the majority of luck out), BUT (and this is what you fail to acknowledge), as long as KP wants to keep the head to head format, that is who is going to get the most money. Why even play head to head (play everyone plays everyone each week) if you aren't going to make it the most important thing. huh? the wcoff does it with 672 fantasy owners. H2H regular season with a league championship game between the best record and the most points. see the island concept yet?
i understand that greg/tom want to have a different format and differentiate themselves, but you've already done that with multi-city drafting, 14 team leagues, etc... don't disenfranchise the most points owners.
[ December 10, 2004, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
I am not disputing that total points is probably a better way to determine who is the best team (takes the majority of luck out), BUT (and this is what you fail to acknowledge), as long as KP wants to keep the head to head format, that is who is going to get the most money. Why even play head to head (play everyone plays everyone each week) if you aren't going to make it the most important thing. huh? the wcoff does it with 672 fantasy owners. H2H regular season with a league championship game between the best record and the most points. see the island concept yet?
i understand that greg/tom want to have a different format and differentiate themselves, but you've already done that with multi-city drafting, 14 team leagues, etc... don't disenfranchise the most points owners.
[ December 10, 2004, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
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Gordon Gekko
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Gordon Mad?
Originally posted by MrX:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Although the head to head has less control, it does create that certain "personal" feeling each week, as you have to try and matchup against your opponent. Maybe this why we're on the outside looking in, but how exactly do you control how you 'matchup against your opponent?'. As for a 'personal' aspect, I wouldn't know anyone in my league if I tripped over them - H2H adds an unnecessary element of luck with no tangible benefit. [/QUOTE]thanks for the post Mr X. i'll count you in the "support a league playoff camp"
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Although the head to head has less control, it does create that certain "personal" feeling each week, as you have to try and matchup against your opponent. Maybe this why we're on the outside looking in, but how exactly do you control how you 'matchup against your opponent?'. As for a 'personal' aspect, I wouldn't know anyone in my league if I tripped over them - H2H adds an unnecessary element of luck with no tangible benefit. [/QUOTE]thanks for the post Mr X. i'll count you in the "support a league playoff camp"
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
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JerseyPaul
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Gordon Mad?
By the way, I do like h2h matchups and you DO get personal during the year, in a Message Board sense. I would not like to give that up.
The neat thing about the proposal is the the total points fans having nothing to fear. If they are indeed better than the best record team, a playoff would not be an issue.
Repeating for clarity....
Unlike WCOFF where a best points/best record team could be beaten in a one week playoff by an inferior team with 1 hot player, the proposal is:
The playoff is required only if best record and most points honors are split.
The neat thing about the proposal is the the total points fans having nothing to fear. If they are indeed better than the best record team, a playoff would not be an issue.
Repeating for clarity....
Unlike WCOFF where a best points/best record team could be beaten in a one week playoff by an inferior team with 1 hot player, the proposal is:
The playoff is required only if best record and most points honors are split.
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Tom Kessenich
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Gordon Mad?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
if YOU (Tom Kessenich) were an OWNER in the NFFC, would it be accurate to say that you would think it's a better system to have a league playoff between the best record and the most points? i'm going by you saying "total points is probably the strongest way to decide who the best team is in a particular league".
forget about the so-called fantasy masses (which btw doesn't include the WCOFF since they have a league champ playoff), i just want to know what Tom Kessenich the individual owner would think. thanks for being so candid. If I was an owner in the NFFC, that means I would have entered the contest knowing full well the number of possibilities that could arise during the course of the season. So if I was willing to enter the contest knowing and accepting the rules ahead of time then I would be willing to accept whatever result the season produced.
Bottom line: I like the NFFC system and if I was a fantasy player who enjoyed this type of high-stakes competition this would be the system I'd prefer to enter. Again, that doesn't mean we can't tweak things in the future and we will. I think that's clear from everything Greg has said. But I like the foundation we have in place and I don't believe the system needs a major overhaul.
if YOU (Tom Kessenich) were an OWNER in the NFFC, would it be accurate to say that you would think it's a better system to have a league playoff between the best record and the most points? i'm going by you saying "total points is probably the strongest way to decide who the best team is in a particular league".
forget about the so-called fantasy masses (which btw doesn't include the WCOFF since they have a league champ playoff), i just want to know what Tom Kessenich the individual owner would think. thanks for being so candid. If I was an owner in the NFFC, that means I would have entered the contest knowing full well the number of possibilities that could arise during the course of the season. So if I was willing to enter the contest knowing and accepting the rules ahead of time then I would be willing to accept whatever result the season produced.
Bottom line: I like the NFFC system and if I was a fantasy player who enjoyed this type of high-stakes competition this would be the system I'd prefer to enter. Again, that doesn't mean we can't tweak things in the future and we will. I think that's clear from everything Greg has said. But I like the foundation we have in place and I don't believe the system needs a major overhaul.
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
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Gordon Gekko
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- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Gordon Mad?
Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
If I was an owner in the NFFC, that means I would have entered the contest knowing full well the number of possibilities that could arise during the course of the season. So if I was willing to enter the contest knowing and accepting the rules ahead of time then I would be willing to accept whatever result the season produced.
Bottom line: I like the NFFC system and if I was a fantasy player who enjoyed this type of high-stakes competition this would be the system I'd prefer to enter. Again, that doesn't mean we can't tweak things in the future and we will. I think that's clear from everything Greg has said. But I like the foundation we have in place and I don't believe the system needs a major overhaul. Tom,
Let me be clearer…I’m not talking about this year. I know there are many things about the NFFC that you would like as a player. I’m trying to see where you’d be on this one issue from a player’s point of view…going forward.
if YOU (Tom Kessenich) will be an OWNER in the NFFC NEXT YEAR, which format would you prefer to crown the league champ:
1. League champ will be best H2H record team at the end of 13 week regular season
2. League champ will be Team that has both best H2H record AND most points at the end of 13-week regular season. If one doesn’t exist, the team with the best H2H record AND the team with the most points advance to a playoff for the league title (one week or three week playoff doesn’t matter at this point)
If I was an owner in the NFFC, that means I would have entered the contest knowing full well the number of possibilities that could arise during the course of the season. So if I was willing to enter the contest knowing and accepting the rules ahead of time then I would be willing to accept whatever result the season produced.
Bottom line: I like the NFFC system and if I was a fantasy player who enjoyed this type of high-stakes competition this would be the system I'd prefer to enter. Again, that doesn't mean we can't tweak things in the future and we will. I think that's clear from everything Greg has said. But I like the foundation we have in place and I don't believe the system needs a major overhaul. Tom,
Let me be clearer…I’m not talking about this year. I know there are many things about the NFFC that you would like as a player. I’m trying to see where you’d be on this one issue from a player’s point of view…going forward.
if YOU (Tom Kessenich) will be an OWNER in the NFFC NEXT YEAR, which format would you prefer to crown the league champ:
1. League champ will be best H2H record team at the end of 13 week regular season
2. League champ will be Team that has both best H2H record AND most points at the end of 13-week regular season. If one doesn’t exist, the team with the best H2H record AND the team with the most points advance to a playoff for the league title (one week or three week playoff doesn’t matter at this point)
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
Gordon Mad?
lol, Tom Kerry?
Don't be so policital, bro - I know how you feel about H2H from our KP2 matchup. It's all fun and good and necessary, now let's lobby for that final push to make a compromise between what's being said here on the boards vs. the way it is for 2004.
Just as some are defending the h2h record as being 'legitimate' it clearly isn't MORE legitimate than points. So, figure out a way to reward both and everyone on this board will be happy with this progress for 2005.
Put Greg in a sleeper hold until he posts things about you being in charge again
Dyv
Don't be so policital, bro - I know how you feel about H2H from our KP2 matchup. It's all fun and good and necessary, now let's lobby for that final push to make a compromise between what's being said here on the boards vs. the way it is for 2004.
Just as some are defending the h2h record as being 'legitimate' it clearly isn't MORE legitimate than points. So, figure out a way to reward both and everyone on this board will be happy with this progress for 2005.
Put Greg in a sleeper hold until he posts things about you being in charge again
Dyv
The Wonderful thing about Dyv's is I'm the only one!