Gordon Mad?

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:36 am

p.s. Greg, keep an eye on Tom, that power thing went to his head and you can just tell he's thinking about a coup.

lol

Dyv

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:56 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
If I was an owner in the NFFC, that means I would have entered the contest knowing full well the number of possibilities that could arise during the course of the season. So if I was willing to enter the contest knowing and accepting the rules ahead of time then I would be willing to accept whatever result the season produced.

Bottom line: I like the NFFC system and if I was a fantasy player who enjoyed this type of high-stakes competition this would be the system I'd prefer to enter. Again, that doesn't mean we can't tweak things in the future and we will. I think that's clear from everything Greg has said. But I like the foundation we have in place and I don't believe the system needs a major overhaul. Tom,
Let me be clearer…I’m not talking about this year. I know there are many things about the NFFC that you would like as a player. I’m trying to see where you’d be on this one issue from a player’s point of view…going forward.

if YOU (Tom Kessenich) will be an OWNER in the NFFC NEXT YEAR, which format would you prefer to crown the league champ:
1. League champ will be best H2H record team at the end of 13 week regular season
2. League champ will be Team that has both best H2H record AND most points at the end of 13-week regular season. If one doesn’t exist, the team with the best H2H record AND the team with the most points advance to a playoff for the league title (one week or three week playoff doesn’t matter at this point) [/QUOTE]I don't mind that format Gekko, but in another service, I had both best record AND total points. I had to play the "2nd best" team in a one week playoff and lost (cost me $750). I was CLEARLY the better team over the season, but had a bad week when it counted.

If I am reading it correctly, you are proposing that if someone has best record AND most points (like I did in my example), then they are automatically the champ and no playoff is needed?

That is great, but does another team get in the "show" (would it be 2nd most points)? I can't see Greg and Tom saying "well this league has one team making the playoffs, and this league has two, etc."

If that is what your proposing, I like it (actually I think JP thought of this a while ago). I have been playing long enough and con fident enough in my abilities that at the very worst I can finish in the top 2 in points in a 14 team league!

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:05 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
Let me be clearer…I’m not talking about this year. I know there are many things about the NFFC that you would like as a player. I’m trying to see where you’d be on this one issue from a player’s point of view…going forward.

if YOU (Tom Kessenich) will be an OWNER in the NFFC NEXT YEAR, which format would you prefer to crown the league champ:
1. League champ will be best H2H record team at the end of 13 week regular season
2. League champ will be Team that has both best H2H record AND most points at the end of 13-week regular season. If one doesn’t exist, the team with the best H2H record AND the team with the most points advance to a playoff for the league title (one week or three week playoff doesn’t matter at this point) Gordon, as I said I don't believe the NFFC needs a major overhaul. We have a very strong foundation in place and I like the format. Can we tweak some things? I'm sure there are things we can tweak and we will. But if you're trying to get me to express disatisfaction with the way our event is set up you're not going to succeed because I like the system we have in place.

What I like about our system is that we have a means to reward both record and points and then ultimately the championship is decided by the team which has the best run through the playoffs. That's a very good system in my opinion.

[ December 10, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:15 am

The question that I think GG is getting to: It would be great if you would support (in public or just with your opinion to Greg) that there be a 3 week playoff between best record and high points in each league IF they are different teams.

That is, assuming YOU believe that to be a good solution. I think it's fair to say that the current system for league cash values h2h record over points scored (when they are different teams) - so, why can't we value them equally and let the matchups determine who wins?

We're all envisioning ourselves with high points (You know, because we're all so brilliant and good) and yet we can also see some other rhubarb falling off a truck into a great record and taking $5k while we sit there with the "probably but not everyone agrees" best team.

So, let's settle it in a playoff, eh? Don't want the luck of a 1 week game, so make it 3!!

Dave

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:31 am

I will go on record as saying that if H2H best record is also most points, it automatically wins the league title.

If it is split, there should be a one game (not 3) for the league championship.

Keep the league prize at $5k.

Increase prize #2, even if you have to eliminate the #3 $500 prize.

In 2015, there will be a thread 2,026,754 posts long, with GG having about 35% of them, (50% of those citing the one extreme case every year), on the merits of h2h vs pts.

They both have strong merits. Both have issues.

The effort put in each week in trying to beat an opponent has to be rewarded. Many strategies which have made FF so popular would be tossed into the trash if points only.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:33 am

Dyv, you're worse than my kids pitting one parent against the other. Tom, get back to those baseball rankings. Tom, get back to those baseball dollar values for our first issue. Tom, where's my pressed shirt?

Only my wife has influence on me, so you're wasting your time on Tom. No rhubarbs fell off the truck this year. 11 of 16 leagues were decided by both. We need to make both points and h2h champion worthy winners. We've gotten the point.

Six of 16 leagues ended in ties and in 14 of 16 leagues the $5,000 wasn't determined until the final game of the regular season. As we continue to grow the NFFC, maybe adding an extra carrot with a three-week playoff makes sense. Certainly not a 1-week playoff as that doesn't prove anything to me, just whose team got hot for that one particular week.

Trust me, Tom and I have discussed this internally at length and we're singing the same tune. My voice is just a little louder than his.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:35 am

Dave, as I said to Gordon I like the system we have in place. I don't believe we need to make significant changes. I like how we reward record and total points and then have the 3-week playoff system to decide the grand champion.

And I'm sorry, but I don't believe a "rhubarb" is going to end up with the best record in any league. I don't believe dumb luck is all you need to end up with the best record in a fantasy league. Once again, I don't believe we need to make massive changes to the set-up we have in place. I'm not sure how many more times I can say that.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:44 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Dave, as I said to Gordon I like the system we have in place. I don't believe we need to make significant changes. I like how we reward record and total points and then have the 3-week playoff system to decide the grand champion.

And I'm sorry, but I don't believe a "rhubarb" is going to end up with the best record in any league. I don't believe dumb luck is all you need to end up with the best record in a fantasy league. Once again, I don't believe we need to make massive changes to the set-up we have in place. I'm not sure how many more times I can say that. Well, I won't use any team names because it's not about that, but a number of 9-4 teams made the final 32 playoffs and yet there was a team that was 490 pts. behind Team New that also went 9-4.

There was a 10 win team that was 430 pts. off the pace. That amounts to 37 and 33 pts. PER WEEK behind. It probably would have taken 1 change of record somewhere along the way for these teams to make the final 32.

To me, for a below average scoring team to make the final 32 is rhubarb's luck. Good thing the truck hit a bump there and you fell out, fellas

Dyv

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:47 am

More fun with numbers:

There's a team that averaged 93 pts. per week that went 7-6

I agree the h2h matchups are fun and they make it more exciting, but these oddities aren't the fun part of h2h

Dave

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:09 am

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
If I am reading it correctly, you are proposing that if someone has best record AND most points (like I did in my example), then they are automatically the champ and no playoff is needed? exactly

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
That is great, but does another team get in the "show" (would it be 2nd most points)? I can't see Greg and Tom saying "well this league has one team making the playoffs, and this league has two, etc." the same two teams get in the playoffs.

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
If that is what your proposing, I like it (actually I think JP thought of this a while ago). he may have thrown out the no playoff for a team that has the best h2h record & the most league points. team gekko thought of the playoff idea.

[ December 10, 2004, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]