Week 6 Top 30

renman · Post by **renman** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:39 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Anything is possible Renman. I believe the original idea was to add more strategy to the draft position selection and thus spending your valuable FAAB money on a desired draft position is another level of strategy. Just asking for a draft position that you WANT doesn't add to the competition.

If the NFFC ever does a draft selection process, there will be a strategic way of doing it involved and enough of a timeframe to do it right. We wouldn't announce picks on the day of the draft as I believe the majority of our players want a few days to prepare for their draft position.

I'm open to all ideas, including having my daughter or Tom pick the names out of a hat again in 2005!!! greg...

the "strategy" is picking the spot you want and having the right plan of attack as you draft from that specific spot.. plus, there is strategy in projecting that the 1st (and probably second) round player you want will actually be there at the spot you picked to draft...

the point i am making is that you may be able to draw more people into the higher stakes event if they have a LITTLE more control over where in the draft they are slotted... it has been proven that you can win from anywhere...so that is not the point. so more often then not owners who get the spot they want wont be helped by it in any way... but we are here talking about "perception".. and i think many owners will "perceive" they have a better chance if they can be slotted in the spot they ideally want...

i just think it would be rather easy to do with owners just randomly listing the spot they want... those who pick the same spot are the ones who get the random luck of the draw... and away we go... i will be there whether it is random or not...lol i am just brainstorming ways to make it better...

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:50 am

I think this has already been mentioned, but how about letting Greg and Tom pick the numbers, then let people pick their draft order based on the number they received. The person who "owns" the 1st number drawn may opt for the 5th pick, the 2nd number the 1st pick, the 3rd the 14th pick, etc. It seems like a nice combination of everything that has been said thus far, and would be simple enough for even the "dead money" teams to understand.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:51 am

Originally posted by Nag':
It absolutely is! I always examine all league rules carefully before joining, and I actually passed on another "highstakes" contest this season because of their free agent rules (worst to first and limitations on weekly & yearly pickups). Your pt is valid for you. i suspect you are in the minority. most sheep, i mean players, don't look at all the rules before they jump in. same as when someone leases a car, buys a house, etc...

Originally posted by Nag':
This has been a long discussion and I did not read through all the posts so this may have been covered extensively ya, let's resume at the end of the season. i'm actually tired talking about it.

Originally posted by Nag':
I will tell you that a strange rule like draft position bidding will most certainly intimidate and discourage many owners from joining. Blind bidding on FA's was completly foreign to me before entering the WCOFF. i saw it as a better (more efficient) system than worst to first. just like blind bidding on draft slots is better.

Originally posted by Nag':
While I like GG's idea and it defintely has a place in fantasy football, I do not think that place is the NFFC in 2005. the NFFC may not be ready for it next year. i don't make those decisions.

Nag: do you agree that the system i proposed is better than random draft order? curious what you think. (i know you said you like it, but does that mean it's better). thanks for the post

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:53 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:
I think this has already been mentioned, but how about letting Greg and Tom pick the numbers, then let people pick their draft order based on the number they received. it is still all based on luck. there is no way you can work that system with 200+ owners trying to decide draft slots sequentially.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:55 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
it is still all based on luck.Should I open another can of worms here? If this is a game of skill, then why are the winners being taxed as if it is a game of luck?

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:06 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
it is still all based on luck.Should I open another can of worms here? If this is a game of skill, then why are the winners being taxed as if it is a game of luck? [/QUOTE]letting greg/tom pick numbers, then allowing those owners to pick their draft slots is still all luck. that would probably be worse than the current system.

[ October 21, 2004, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:53 pm

So let's assume for a moment that getting to 602 players is the next big step for the NFFC. Keep in mind they are going head-to-head with an established event that will also seek to expand next year.

NFFC has an obvious advantage in the 3 city format and in the entry fee. It has a disadvantage in the 14 team format as it reduces the chances of winning the league but interestingly the $1250 for 14 teams gives almost exactly the same expected value as 12 teams at $1450 and there is no activity fee.

So what will make one more successful than the other? Personally, I think both have a very bright future. The challenge will not be to get players to choose one over the other, but to increase the total number of high stakes players.

What are the demographics of the existing high stakes fantasy players? We know they have disposable income, are usually also interested in multiple forms of gambling, are "early adopters" and technologically savvy. Many have access to advanced smilies. The disposable income element makes many of them older but players of all ages are part of the mix.

What are the barriers? Cost. Fear of running with the pros. Fear of being ridiculed for making stupid decisions. Waiting months for an outcome. "No way I can win" mentality.

Interesting how Chris Moneymaker made many of those barriers disappear for the WSOP.

So what are possibilities to increase participation?

1. Guppy Leagues. Lower cost leagues with fewer teams per league and reasonable payouts consistent with the entry fee ($250?). Anybody getting a league award is then ineligible for future guppy leagues and must enter the Main Event. Awards must be a lower percentage payout than the Main Event to encourage graduating.

2. More Satellite leagues. Probably better to change the proposition to the top 2 teams getting free entries (top h2h and top points) and increase the entry fee accordingly.

3. Level the playing field. Gentlemen, a priori there is no question that some draft slots are better than others in a serpentine draft. Random events then occur which change that result and thus, at the end of the season, winners will be found from all draft positions. It's like card counting in blackjack. The deck may be slightly in your favor for the next hand but you still have only a 2% edge and thus the result of the next hand is still very much in doubt. That small advantage must be eliminated.

Gordan has suggested one very good way. There are probably others.

4. More short term awards. Awarding 1 prize for the overall to weekly winner is not sufficient. I believe there must be weekly league prizes. Another site has chosen to vary these contests in order to keep participation high. They have "top RB" week, "top WR", etc. That way every team can try to arrange their roster to shoot for a prize.

I'm sure there are lots more great ideas but I just wanted to get some thoughts down (especially if I lose the muzzle bet).

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:21 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
Nag: do you agree that the system i proposed is better than random draft order? curious what you think. (i know you said you like it, but does that mean it's better). thanks for the postNot only do I like it, I wouldn't mind if it was implemented into the NFFC or other leagues at some point. Any rule that complicates the league is fine with me as it always favors the better prepared and knowledgeble owners, and I'd like to consider myself as one.
But keeping Greg/Tom's perspective in mind, I just think it's not something a startup league should take a chance on doing while trying to attract more customers.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:36 pm

interesting post. i only got a minute though.

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:
The disposable income element makes many of them older but players of all ages are part of the mix. how old do you think i am. curious?

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:
What are the barriers? Cost. Fear of running with the pros. Fear of being ridiculed for making stupid decisions. Waiting months for an outcome. "No way I can win" mentality. you missed the biggest one. getting the word out about Greg's event.

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:
Gordan has suggested one very good way. There are probably others. I'd be surprised if there were.

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:
4. More short term awards. doesn't interest me at all.

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:
I just wanted to get some thoughts down (especially if I lose the muzzle bet). gekko casino has you at 1-2.

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:51 pm

Gordan, I put you in your late forties. I haven't found too many younger guys who take the time to write in full sentences, spell words correctly and have a good vocabulary.

If you're a young dude, I apologize and congratulate you.