Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:35 am

Greg - please witness how BONGOMONKEY is trying to hijack the thread and bait me into a MB duel (again). it was requested of me to "take it easy" on him, so i have been trying to honor that request. soon it will be time not to honor that request.

[ October 18, 2006, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:38 am

I like the DEF scoring as is. I wouldn't be too thrilled with points awarded for blocked FG's, punts or on-side kick recovery.

I think at any position, the best will be drafted early. Worth it or not Peyton Manning is going to be drafted early...did you have this discussion a few years back when Peyton was throwing for 49 TD's? (maybe you did because the NFFC awards 6 pts for TD, while some leagues only give 4 pts). I guess my point is that there are only so many elite players at the skill positions and I like that D/ST's can't be overlooked when drafting.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:40 am

Let's keep the comments on topic. Thanks everyone.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:44 am

If any owner worth their salt would have done the research, they would have EASILY seen that the Bears defense DOMINATED in the "new system" last year.

Is defense REALLY a crapshoot? If anything, adding the "points against" points makes it MUCH more predictable.

I mean seriously, look at all the top RB's that suck (James, Jordan, etc.)

Isn't it nice to KNOW you are getting a top point producer at a position?? I happened to get Carolina in MANY of my leagues this year, and they have dissapointed (but are coming on as of late).

I personally LOVE the scoring system as it is. Who is to say that taking a defense early is ludicrous. When they are averaging 16 points per week, and the rest of the field is averaging say 12 or less, wouldn't that be comparable to taking Antonio Gates in the early 3rd over other TE's because he is SUPPOSEDLY about 4-5 PPW better???

People can "roll the dice" (just like at other positions), but the people griping about the scoring are the ones who took a gamble on the likes of Washington, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, etc. and are "sour grapes".

Keep it as is Greg, like Diesel said, it makes it even MORE of a chess match!

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:07 am

Greg, as you probably recall, I suggested the scoring change for more points for holding teams to a low score. What I suggested was slightly higher than what was implemented, but I like the current system and I appreciate the change.

I honestly have no idea why UFS and a couple others think that a defense holding a team to 17 pts or less shouldn't be of value. Is it because they just don't want to do the work to analyze team defenses and matchups.

I have heard the argument that "holding a team to 17 points is nothing special". Well, I think it is because it puts that team in position to win. Contrast with scoring for other positions ... what is so special about a WR or TE catching a 10-yard pass when they are losing by 30 points ... is that special? What is so special about a kicker knocking down a 20-yd FG, is that special? I would argue that a team defense, which for an entire game plays well enough to put its team in position is far more special. In fact if anything, I would raise the bar to 20 or 21 points, which is certainly not unprecedented in other fantasy games (some systems go as high as 27 on the theory that holding a team to 27 is better than giving up even more).

My vote, keep it as is.

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:12 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
This year in the NFFC we added more points to our defensive scoring, rewarding teams who are able to hold opponents to 17 points or less. We did not tweak the turnovers, but did increase points for shutouts and other low scoring contests.

This year it's obvious that with our scoring system -- and actually in any scoring system right now -- the Chicago Bears are among the most valuable fantasy possessions to date. They scored three defensive/special teams touchdowns on Monday night and now have two special teams TDs. They also have 21 turnovers, forcing 14 fumbles and seven interceptions. In NFFC scoring, the Bears are averaging 19.1 points per week, with Baltimore second at 14.8. The next 20 teams are averaging between 13 and 7.6 points per game.

In 2007, it does make sense to add one or two points for a blocked field goal and a blocked punt. Recovering an onside kick might even make sense as all of those are rare occurrences but very important special teams plays.

Here is our current defensive scoring setup:

1 point for every sack
2 points for every interception or opponents' fumble recovery
6 points for every touchdown (interception return, defensive fumble return, punt or kickoff return, blocked field goal return, blocked punt return). All special teams and defensive points are awarded to the team responsible, not the individual player. Should a kicker, punter or field goal holder throw a pass off a fake attempt, however, the offensive output for that offensive play would go towards the individual player, not the special teams. Also, any lost fumble or "muff" on a specials team play does not result in negative points for that individual player.
2 points for every safety
12 points for a shutout by the entire team
8 points for allowing 2-7 points by the entire team
4 points for allowing 8-12 points by the entire team
2 points for allowing 13-17 points by the entire team

Here's the question of the week: Are we making defenses too important in the NFFC? Not enough? Are fantasy football leagues as a whole giving too much credit or not enough credit to defensive performances? I'm interested in all feedback this week as we continue to create the best scoring system for our players. Thanks everyone. It's all good. Leave the same except delete 13-17 score. That's just too many points against to be rewarded.

A superior defensive effort should result in a much greater chance for you to win your game, just like it does when LT scores 4 times.

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:14 am

On second thought, 13 against is good defense. 14 pts is two TD's and that's not worthy.

make 8-13 worth 4 pts.

12-8-4

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:21 am

The avg Defensive score this year is 8.5 PPG. The overall average for the NFFC this year is 119 pts.

Defense accounts for 7% of scoring. the argument that it accounts for too much is silly and unsubstantiated. Only kickers count for less.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:32 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
Greg - please witness how BONGOMONKEY is trying to hijack the thread and bait me into a MB duel (again). it was requested of me to "take it easy" on him, so i have been trying to honor that request. soon it will be time not to honor that request. Silence is golden. Ignore these baits and they will stop. If you continue to debate everything, you'll be drawn into a B-Waz/Snake love fest and trust me nobody in the NFFC wants another one of those!