Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:52 am

Originally posted by Blue_Foot:
Greg,

Here is something that is really different. How about seperating defenses and special teams? Other than industry laziness, I have never understood why these two very different aspects of the game were lumped together. This would be simple and cutting edge! It would also allow for more strategy and skill in picking teams with good returners and teams with good defenses. I think that it would eliminate some of the luck factor that results from a single entity. Blocked kick points would be assigned to the special teams. Any comments from anyone? I know this is a bit different, but please give it some consideration. Thanks! The category is Defense/Special Teams, thus you get touchdown points from that team's defense and special teams. I'm sure when the Fantasy Football Founding Fathers (whoever the hell they were) created this position they decided that defensive and special teams touchdowns were so rare that it made sense to lump them together. I honestly agree and thus when you draft Kansas City you pick their defense and Dante Hall as well. We all know that on Draft Day. The dandy this year is that when you've drafted Chicago you're getting Urlacher & Co. and Devin Hester & Co. It's a great combination for fantasy owners.

Every point Chicago scored on Monday night they would have scored in last year's NFFC scoring system. The only change we made was to holding teams to 17 points or less. As for defensive points being charged to the team total when the offense gives up the score on a turnover, it's certainly listed as Points Allowed in all scoring formats and will continue to be attributed to the team you selected as your defense.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:06 am

Originally posted by Primo:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Awarding return TDs to the individual players is something that I find interesting. Let's see what Greg thinks but if we did that would you be in favor of only giving the TD to the player or awarding TDs to both the player and the team (that's how we do it in my Main League, for example). I think it's kind of overkill to reward points to both. Awarding the player would be interesting to see when/if guys like Welker, Hall, Parrish, etc. are drafted along with increasing the value of a Reggie Bush. I'm sure the people who drafted Bush early wish that rule was in effect right now. [/QUOTE]You're probably right. For what it's worth, the rule works in our league because - as Marc mentions a couple of posts before - it's really rare that a returner will be on someone's roster. There are always going to be some exceptions of standout players who are also standout return men. Tim Brown was one. Steve Smith has been one. Maybe Reggie Bush will be one. But I'm not so sure about Dante Hall. Would you really want to start Hall consistently just hoping for him to take a return the distance? Of course, that would add some more strategy to the mix which wouldn't be bad I suppose.

I can see a real discussion evolving where we award return TDs to the individual players. Again, I'm not sure how Greg feels about that so let's see what he has to say. But if that is something we talked about doing we'd then have to decide if we remove the TDs from the teams which would be a rather big break from our current scoring system.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:23 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blue_Foot:
[qb] Greg,

The only change we made was to holding teams to 17 points or less. Absolutely Greg, and it WAS a GREAT change.

Look no further than Denver's defense. Generally not a "leader" in sackc, turnovers, returns, etc. but they are ONE HECK of a defense.

They have let up ONE TD in FIVE games (unbleievable!) yet if you compare them to say the Detroit Lions (who have played one more game);

Detroit 11 sacks 10 turnovers
Denver 10 sacks 7 turnovers

I don't think ANYONE could say that Detroit is a better defense (fantasy or otherwise) than Denver.

This system rewards the produict ON THE FIELD, and that is what fantasy football SHOULD be all about.

Don't change a thing, the current scoring system is GREAT!

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:32 am

I've played fantasy football for 15-16 years now, so I guess that makes me an fantasy old timer...lol But I've always notcied that anytime a change proposal is on the table for a fantasy league, most of the negative comments come soley from the people that were on the bad end of the proposed change in that year. Ex...Most of the people that are against this Defensive change are guys who have lost a game because their opponent had the Bears defense, or some defense that had a great scoring week.

I have the Atlanta Falcons defense in the Main Event and they are averaging 12 points a game, and if they didn't score 1 point against the Saints, they'd be an een more lucrative defense. What I'm getting at is just because Chicago is the top scoring defense, doesn't mean they're the ONLY scoring defense. There are a good handfull of defenses that are scoring a nice handful of points every week, and whatever format we'd have in the NFFC for defense, Chicago would be scoring the max in that format.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:11 am

Originally posted by Diesel:
But I've always notcied that anytime a change proposal is on the table for a fantasy league, most of the negative comments come soley from the people that were on the bad end of the proposed change in that year.

What I'm getting at is just because Chicago is the top scoring defense, doesn't mean they're the ONLY scoring defense. There are a good handfull of defenses that are scoring a nice handful of points every week, and whatever format we'd have in the NFFC for defense, Chicago would be scoring the max in that format. Both excellent and VERY true points Diesel!

15-16 years, does that make you like 50?

You look good for your age.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:48 am

LMAO...I'm 34. I've been playing fantasy since I was 18 or 19...We used the Daily News paper's stats back then. No computers. No internet. We'd manually do our own scores and call our opponents and agree on a final score, and then call the commissioner to give the final agreed score.

wayne123 · Post by **wayne123** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:30 am

Quahogs,

I agree! If Special Teams was a "position" like defense, then points could be assigned to things like quality punts. As one person mentioned, blocks may be difficult to assess (although I believe the NFL tracks this as an official stat), but several things could be used to determine the value of this position.

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:35 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:
Now how about .5 pts to a punt being downed inside the 10 yard line ?? This is not easily accomplished and would add some much needed excitement to the punting aspect of fantasy football !

Q LOL... I remember one year in the '80's we added a punter to the game. I loved the rule. A pt for inside the 20 punts and 1 pt bonus at 45 and 50 averages.

It was a lot of fun watching to see if they could down the ball when close to the goal line.

Owners didn't like the extra work...

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:03 am

Originally posted by Diesel:
LMAO...I'm 34. I've been playing fantasy since I was 18 or 19...We used the Daily News paper's stats back then. No computers. No internet. We'd manually do our own scores and call our opponents and agree on a final score, and then call the commissioner to give the final agreed score. I'm with you Diesel (36), and this is actually my 20th year of playing (started with a 6 teamer in 1987). I dominated, as I had Thurman Thomas, Neal Anderson, Jerry Rice, and my "sleeper" Andre "Bad Moon" Rison!!

Same scoring system, as the USA Today was used for ALL stats, and everything was done on the calculator.

Certainly rewarded the people who actually DID their homework! (no information for everyone on the web, VERY few magazines, etc.)

[ October 19, 2006, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:06 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:
Now how about .5 pts to a punt being downed inside the 10 yard line ?? This is not easily accomplished and would add some much needed excitement to the punting aspect of fantasy football !

Q I would also like to see us draft a referee and head coach.

referee scoring:
+ 1 pt per flag tossed
+.01 pts per penalty yd assessed
- 2pts per overturned penalty

head coach scoring:
+ 3pts for a win
+ 5pts for crazy rant after game in a loss (only if team wins the following game)