NFFC Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest Rules

[kjduke]

Originally posted by 3INT/BFDFANTASYfootball.com:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Here is the new prize structure for the NFFC Post-Season contest based on 164 teams. Good luck everyone and thanks for the extra support as this is a record total for us in our third year of offering this contest:

1st: $10,000
2nd: $1,500
3rd: $750
4th: $300
5th: $250
6th: $125
7th: $125
8th: $100 WOW
164x120=$19,680 collected.
$13,050.00 paid out.
$6,630 juice.
Total Paid out is 66%

The operators have every right to charge what they like, but next time someone wants to say others are out to "screw people to make a buck". Perhaps they should consider all those trying to make a buck...immunity should be 100% for all.

My take is: Please leave the vaseline on the dresser as you leave...

3' [/QUOTE]FYI, juice = 20% + transactions (probably closer to $15 than $20 per)

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by 3INT/BFDFANTASYfootball.com:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Here is the new prize structure for the NFFC Post-Season contest based on 164 teams. Good luck everyone and thanks for the extra support as this is a record total for us in our third year of offering this contest:

1st: $10,000
2nd: $1,500
3rd: $750
4th: $300
5th: $250
6th: $125
7th: $125
8th: $100 WOW
164x120=$19,680 collected.
$13,050.00 paid out.
$6,630 juice.
Total Paid out is 66%

The operators have every right to charge what they like, but next time someone wants to say others are out to "screw people to make a buck". Perhaps they should consider all those trying to make a buck...immunity should be 100% for all.

My take is: Please leave the vaseline on the dresser as you leave...

3' [/QUOTE]Lou, as an industry "professional", you are an embarrassment at times. You really are.

Our prize structure was and is based on 80 percent of the entry fee, so at 164 teams x $100 we have $16,400. 80 percent of that is $13,120 and the correct math is that we're paying out $13,150.

Now as you know, I don't charge transaction fees in my other events and I've never liked that charge, but this game is set up with $2 per transaction or $20 for unlimited transactions. The first year of this contest, a lot of folks chose the $2 per transaction route and it was a pain in the butt. So when I signed up our guys this year, I did it at $120 to avoid this week's pain of getting guys access to transactions. Trust me, not everyone takes $20 per transaction as some guys take multiple teams and then make transactions this week and choose not to invest anymore on their other teams. But I'd say we'll still generate $2,600 in transaction fees if not slightly more.

I'd love to own this game outright and not have additional expenses for Fantasy911.com to run this for me, but STATS doesn't do this as part of my regular contract with them. So Fantasy911.com covers our back-end support, the stats, etc., and we do this with a new expense to them. And with the transaction fees involved, yes the payout for this post-season game will likely be closer to 69% than 80%. That's the facts.

So you're getting screwed?? That's what you're insinuating about this game?? You saw the payouts beforehand, saw the $10,000 grand prize and still signed up?? And now you're coming on my boards to call me names?? If you didn't like the payout for this game, why did you join this contest? To bad mouth me or to just get your URL posted again?? Lou, you are a joke for this post.

I run all of my online satellite leagues at 80 percent payout. This contest I don't have total control to do that, but I raised the ante higher with the 14 extra signups and I did it at the same percentage (80%) I did for the contest at 150 teams. The transaction fees weren't included in the original prize structure of this particular contest and folks knew that when they signed up, whether you agree or not. So don't act so foolishly. In fact, run your own games if you are so morally perfect.

The industry sure is grateful to have a pro like you with us.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by 3INT/BFDFANTASYfootball.com:
[QUOTE]My take is: Please leave the vaseline on the dresser as you leave...

3' This is from an industry professional? On another industry web site's message board?? Unreal. Lou, if you don't return to the NFFC, this will be my lasting memory of you. You've had one helluva year on our boards and this one should do it for you. Thanks for playing.

[3INTBOY]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by 3INT/BFDFANTASYfootball.com:
[QUOTE]My take is: Please leave the vaseline on the dresser as you leave...

3' This is from an industry professional? On another industry web site's message board?? Unreal. Lou, if you don't return to the NFFC, this will be my lasting memory of you. You've had one helluva year on our boards and this one should do it for you. Thanks for playing. [/QUOTE]Geez, just having some fun with you!

Lighten up man.

And YES an industry professional that WAS THROWN UNDER THE BUS BY YOU every chance given. Another industry professional.

Don't get so upset about delivering the message..
66% is no way to treat loyal people .

3'

Our prize structure was and is based on 80 percent of the entry fee, so at 164 teams x $100 we have $16,400. 80 percent of that is $13,120 and the correct math is that we're paying out $13,150.


The above is a serious BS spin. The $20.00 is a REAL cost to the people that joined, what it's used for is not important. If it's a Red Cross donation, then you'd be correct it would NOT be part of the contest.

Embarressment? The running of this board has been that for the entire year, and you allowed it. That was a light joke compared to the things said here all season.

[ January 11, 2008, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: 3INT/BFDFANTASYfootball.com ]

[sportsbettingman]

Unless the rosters were frozen to all...the transaction fees shouldn't be excluded.

You'd have no chance of winning without making transactions...so they should not be ignored. (IMO)

The entry should have been just a flat 120 with unlimited transactions.

All just my opinion.

I'm OUTTA this one!

(...but I'll be hitting refresh a lot!)

~Lance

[3INTBOY]

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
Unless the rosters were frozen to all...the transaction fees shouldn't be excluded.

You'd have no chance of winning without making transactions...so they should not be ignored. (IMO)

The entry should have been just a flat 120 with unlimited transactions.

All just my opinion.

I'm OUTTA this one!

(...but I'll be hitting refresh a lot!)

~Lance No need Lance, I was laying a slap/joke on Greg. Didn't mean to offend so badly, just playing some. Thought this was the Big Boy section. That's what so many have said here all season.

I won't go any farther on it. Said my peace.

And I entered knowing 150 was the goal and had done the math. The correct math.

3'

[Team Legacy]

Scott, looks over at Lou... he's seen on tips of his toes, with an agressive grin..

As Scott points his hand in Lou's direction, Scott blurts out.. ARE YOU READY?

Lou nods affirmitive...

Scott looks the other way and sees Greg... he's fuming, sweating all over, his face as red as the blood on his hands...

As Scott points his hand in Greg's direction,
Scott blurts out.. ARE YOU READY?

Greg nods affirmitive...

LET'S GET IT ON!

This is great!!

I'm in the contest, and I see Lou's point of view here. I expected a bigger payout, but the contest is one of the few going in the off-season, and I need my fix.

You define juice as total paid in - total paid out. Juice is kept to turn a profit. I've always personally felt a 10% juice is fair in just about any contest without additional expenses, so I normally expect the owner to take 10% right off the top, then pay expenses, then give the rest back to the prize pool, but that's just me.

So in this scenario, its

164 entries at $120 a pop = $19,680
Greg takes his $1,968 >> NICE BONUS !!
$17,712 - expenses, say... $600 to run the league??

Total left over is $17,112. Round down to $17k for miscellaneous expense, time spent to get it going. Yes, I can sympathize with Lou's reaction. We're a fairly good ways off from the target.

Greg, any way to announce payouts BEFORE the contest based on # of entrants etc? I think this would clear it up in future years.

Just set payout % on a sliding scale, the more entries you get the higher % you can go.

[ January 11, 2008, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Team Legacy ]

[Greg Ambrosius]

Lou, you and anyone else on these boards are more than welcome to question ANYTHING about my contests. Do it professionally, not like a 12-year-old. I didn't see the "light-hearted" vasaline comment when you first saw the prize structure and the payout percentage. I didn't see the light-hearted vasaline comment when I guaranteed the prize money even though there was a good chance I wouldn't sell all 150 spots. Lighten up? With a vasaline comment?? Sheesh.

And Lance, yeah, this contest deserves to be a flat fee of $120 and pay back of 80 percent, but TopGun and now Fantasy911.com run contests differently and at different percentages. So it wasn't a tug-of-war of ideas between us in 2005 or 2006 because we knew we wouldn't sell out anyway. This year I didn't even have the time to run this and almost didn't, but was happy that we sold out for the first time and made it to 164. Now it looks to you like we're getting rich on a post-season contest when folks don't even know what the transaction revenue is or what expenses are involved. Fine.

This is too small for STATS to program this for me and Fantasy911.com had a programmer who would do it for us at a fair price. I'm glad it's popular enough to make ends meet for both of us.

In fact, do the math on the difference Lou has posted about. 80 percent of $19,000 would be $15,200 vs. $13,150 that we are paying out. Now how much do you think I'm paying for the new programming for this contest? "Yeah, but it's not 80 percent, is it Greg?"

I threw Lou under the bus every chance I got, huh? Okay, I'll leave well enough alone and just go have fun at the Packers' game tomorrow. Lou, you are a funny man with that light-hearted humor. I haven't stopped laughing yet at this one.

You should have had someone else question the poor payout. The punch-line would have gone over better.

[sportsbettingman]

I still love ya, Greg!

GO PACKERS!!!

~Lance

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Team Legacy:
So in this scenario, its

164 entries at $120 a pop = $19,680
Greg takes his $1,968 >> NICE BONUS !!
$17,712 - expenses, say... $600 to run the league??

Total left over is $17,712. Round down to $17k for miscellaneous expense, time spent to get it going. Yes, I can sympathize with Lou's reaction. We're a fairly good ways off from the target.

Greg, any way to announce payouts BEFORE the contest based on # of entrants etc? I think this would clear it up in future years.

Just set payout % on a sliding scale, the more entries you get the higher % you can go. Scott, you and Lou are doing math with your own numbers, not the actual numbers. I wish I could pay $600 for back-end support to run a contest for 164 teams. Sorry, it doesn't happen.

Also Scott, it's not legal to run fantasy contests with prize money based on a sliding scale. The language in the Anti-Internet Gambling Law is very specific on that. Heck, if you could (and I know some contests still do, but they don't have our lawyers), then I could have slid down the scale as well in 2005 and 2006 when I had only 117 teams and 137 teams. How come nobody said anything about me paying more than 80 percent in 2005??

I don't have any problem with Lou saying he wishes that my prize money for this contest should have been 80 percent of total revenue rather than 69%, but then do so professionally. He thinks I'm SCREWING you folks over $2,000? I can tell you that my family didn't feel like I was having a good time last Saturday when all I did was take phone calls and get folks set up on this new site until 3:30 CST. But it's part of the job and I have much bigger things to accomplish than this post-season contest or listening to Lou's rants again.

He feels I threw him under the bus this year. Then I wouldn't return to that bus stop, would you?

Good luck all.