3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?

[King of Queens]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
You can call it socialism or innovation, it's your call.I think Nag' is right. 3RR is exactly like global warming.

[3INTBOY]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

3. do you and lou (and others like renman, etc...) ever take a stand or lead a charge when faced with a situation where there is insufficient data to TELL you which way to go? or are you the hecklers in the back of the room, resistant to any kind of change?

thanks. [/QB]GG-you really just can't help it can you? If a post of yours doesn't include a dig or rip. You just aren't content.
You have an issue that needs work, Good luck w/ it.

As for your post, I think 3RR is interesting. And I haven't stated anywhere (again) that I don't like it. But I have started the thread to talk through it more and get the opinions of others. I don't claim to be right/wrong but I am a thought out guy, and still don't see where you can alter the FACT that there are players that breakout and will alter the balance to and from the front and back of the draft.
And GG, et al. after 4 weeks of the 2006 FF season LT2 wasn't the top RB, Brian Westbrook was and the teams near the bottom of RD1 were running away with the leagues. LT2 turned it on in week 6 and ran by everyone. And thats where my statement about "perceived" advantage comes in.
No one was stating a massive change needed to occur then. They were commended for taking the chance on Westbrook even though he was injured coming out of preseason.

I like Nag's Global Warming analogy.

I also have no problem drafting 3RR, because I really could care less about how its set up, I'll do my best.

Just think a better discussion was in order, and the ability to listen to what others write. A process I respect and enjoy.

3'

[ February 14, 2007, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: 3INTBOY/BFDFANTASY.com ]

[RiFF]

Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
You can call it socialism or innovation, it's your call.I think Nag' is right. 3RR is exactly like global warming. [/QUOTE]Its all coming into focus...1st the Effects of Global Warming; then Clinton mating with whales; then Cheney shooting his friend in the face in his quest for quails; then Larry the Cable Guy...NOW 3RR.....no wonder we can't lure Osama out of his cave in Pakistan....its a chaotic world where even the wackos don't feel safe!!!

[TamuScarecrow]

I think Nag' is right. 3RR is exactly like global warming.
I like Nag's Global Warming analogy.
Wrong, gentlemen, 3RR exists. Anyone for beachfront property in Tucson?

[Nag']

I really don't get the hostility to those of us raising questions about 3RR's practical effectiveness. Can anyone actually PROVE to me that my scepticism isn't at all warranted? Please educate me, I beg you.

As far as accusing me of being afraid of change, Mark, you know better than that. I have been very active in pushing forward many rule changes in WCOFF as well as here. I am in favor of KDS and even BDDS (although I didn't agree now was the right time for it for the NFFC).

If any of you actually paid attention to what Lou and I are saying, you would notice that niether one of us ever said we were agaisnt 3RR. I'm simply not ready to subscribe to the 3RR group-think that is so popular here with no evidence to support it.
What happens if 2-3 years from now, the draft results show that instead of "leveling" the playing field for all draft slots, 3RR has actually CREATED an unfair advantage to the lower draft slots? What do you say then - oops, sorry? Is this scenario simply out of the realm of possibilities to the 3RR crowd? Is 3RR infallible? Sure sounds like it's already been decided here that it is before a single draft went off.

Just for the record.

Do I believe there is a statistical advantage to drafting from the top draft slots? Yes, I do. Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones.
Do I believe this is a bad thing and has reached a point that it needed fixing? No, absolutely not.
Do I believe 3RR will be achieve its intended objective? I have no idea. I do know it will likely make the top slots weaker, the bottom slots stronger and the middle ones basically the same, but I haven't the slightest clue as to what level this impact will be. And I am quite certain noone else knows either, although actually being honest about this fact is somehow taboo. :rolleyes:

[TamuScarecrow]

Just a reminder here, NAG, some view the glass half full and some view it half empty. I choose half full and it's sad that some people here are shooting 3RR down without giving it a chance. How bad is it to say there is no evidence to support 3RR when you don't have any evidence to shoot down 3RR. You bought into global warming with no evidence to support it so why not 3RR?

[renman]

3INTBOY,

Your initial post starting this thread was COMPLETELY reasonable and very similar to something I said months ago. GG's response was very predictable and you are right on the money about how he cannot address many here (unless they are blindly following his view on something) without some attack, mock, or dig in his post.

I too thought that 3RR is somewhat of a kneejerk reaction to a couple epic seasons by a few RBs the last couple years. Fantasy football has been steadily growing (exploding even) in popularity and interest for 2 decades using primarily a random draft position process. If it was so inherently unfair fantasy football would not have such steady growth. Now, though I find 3RR interesting, I am one of those fantasy players who embraces the challenges of dealing with the hand that is dealt to me. I think much of the firestorm you have seen on this board regarding the "unfairness" of how things in the NFFC were set up comes from those who need an excuse for failing. I am talking about those who look across the room and are LOOKING for a reason to complain and whine because that owner over there got LT and I did not. I was just as frustrated as the next guy that LT was blowing up fantasy leagues all over ... but I would never complain about it being unfair.. especially since LT was not the top overall pick in many leagues.

I am finding 3RR more attractive now as it takes away some of the predictability of the draft... it adds a little texture and more unique opportunities for differing strategies... Having said that, your initial post in this thread was very good, totally reasonable, and a fair point to make and question to pose... Sometimes I get the sense some here have played fantays football for a whole whopping 3 years. because I can remember MANY years where drafting from the top spot was death... I can remember many seasons where you were much happier picking the 13th and 14th players as opposed to the 1st and 24th...

Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers...

[renman]

I am also not seeing who is "shooting down" 3RR... I see people questioning if it is necessary, or if it is too huge a leap from the current system. But I do not see people screaming about how bad it is. There is no evidence that 3RR is going to be bad. However, with the EXPLODING GROWTH of fantasy football over the last 2 decades, there is evidence that 3RR might not have been necessary...

I say all of this considering myself a supporter of 3RR. I can support it, and look forward to it, and think it adds some unique texture to our game, without thinking it was 100% necessary or that the previous system was so inherently unfair. Over a LARGE sample of seasons, drafting from the top of the board was a MINOR advantage. Some seasons it was good, others it was bad.

[Team Legacy]

Originally posted by Nag':
Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones. This is what I DON'T understand. If you actually believe what you're typing above, I can't see why you wouldn't accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP (maybe not solve) but HELP lessen the advantage you speak of that the top picks have.

Could it lean the other way and more of the bottom teams win? I for one, certainly hope so.

Will 3RR perfect the issue so that evenly across the board every spot wins evenly? NO, I'm sure it won't, but let's just say if currently, the top 4 picks win 50% of the time compared to the 28.5% of the time the laws of averages state would be "even" (4 out of 14), we have a problem.

Let's say after 3-5 years pass(enough data), 50% of the teams from the bottom 4 spots win, then maybe 3RR should be 5RR. I think what all of us have experienced over the last 3-5 years is evidence something should be done about the advantage the top spots have had and enjoyed.

3RR doesn't GUARANTEE anything, but one would think it has to help. Anyone stating WHAT it will do definitively is gambling, but common sense tells us its gotta help lessen the edge.

Thankfully, the guys that WIN the draft spot lottery won't be counting their winning checks as fast as they have in the past.

[Team Legacy]

Originally posted by renman:


Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... So your post is stating those who believe in 3RR are somehow "rookies" ?

How is this more tasteful "JAB" any different in the end from one of GG's?

BTW: Not picking a fight, just pointing out the irony.

[ February 14, 2007, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Team Legacy ]