Originally posted by renman:
there is evidence that 3RR might not have been necessary...
I say all of this considering myself a supporter of 3RR. renman meet waffle. waffle meet renman
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
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Gordon Gekko
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Taking a step back fom the particulars for a moment, I must say that I'm impressed that Greg took this step. The NFFC is already a successful product, with more than enough return business to fill the leagues neccesary to guarantee a 100K grand prize. Here's a guy who runs a national league who's willing to innovate and adapt to his customers' input... that's great business. I think it was Billy who pointed out that this is another solid innovation for NFFC (last year KDS, this year 3RR), and I agree that that's the proper context to view this innovation.
Focusing in on the particular issue, I think 3RR brings moderate (certainly within acceptable parameters) change in value for the later draft slots. We are talking about the third round, where by that time owners are taking their shots on RBs with question-marks vs. WRs who are pretty much in the same tier.
In short, hardly socialized medicine (but I got a kick out the title of the thread
)
Focusing in on the particular issue, I think 3RR brings moderate (certainly within acceptable parameters) change in value for the later draft slots. We are talking about the third round, where by that time owners are taking their shots on RBs with question-marks vs. WRs who are pretty much in the same tier.
In short, hardly socialized medicine (but I got a kick out the title of the thread
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Gordon Gekko
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
lou,
what you and nag are doing is coming at a very odd time. 3RR WILL be used in the NFFC in 2007. it has already been decided. why are you throwing up your "is it needed?" speech NOW??? what do you hope to accomplish?
what you and nag are doing is coming at a very odd time. 3RR WILL be used in the NFFC in 2007. it has already been decided. why are you throwing up your "is it needed?" speech NOW??? what do you hope to accomplish?
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... So your post is stating those who believe in 3RR are somehow "rookies" ?
[/QUOTE]I took a little offense to this statement also.
I think Scott said everything PERFECTLY (much better than me, that is for sure!), as 3RR is not guaranteed (what is?
), but it SHOULD even things out a little more, and again, the NFFC is "striking while the iron IS hot".
I DO believe 3RR is going to help this contest move forward, and I can bet I have more years experience than the person who said some of us in favor of this have "short careers and/or are rookies".
That all being said, I too can remember when the #1 pick wasn't all that great, but times have DEFINITELY changed, and the "top spots" have been more desirable for quite some time.
Honestly, I put that one on the media, as if it wasn't for so many websites, magazines, etc. out there now (who ALL have the same top 3 or 4 it seems), things may be different. Once you get to the 12-14 picks, MANY forms of media have MANY different projections, so therefore, the top 3-4 "sure things" APPEAR to be where everyone wants to be. Look at last year, was there a KDS that DID NOT have the top 3 slots (ranked in some order) as their top 3 selections????
Right there (and this year SHOULDN'T be different) shows that the top spots ARE coveted, and therein lies the reason for the implemnentation of 3RR.
Everybody can have their opinions about it, but if the NFFC was going to go forward with this, this DEFINITELY was the time due to LT's record breaking season, and the consensus top 3 appearing to be LT, S-Jax, and LJ going into the 2007 season.
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... So your post is stating those who believe in 3RR are somehow "rookies" ?
[/QUOTE]I took a little offense to this statement also.
I think Scott said everything PERFECTLY (much better than me, that is for sure!), as 3RR is not guaranteed (what is?
), but it SHOULD even things out a little more, and again, the NFFC is "striking while the iron IS hot".I DO believe 3RR is going to help this contest move forward, and I can bet I have more years experience than the person who said some of us in favor of this have "short careers and/or are rookies".
That all being said, I too can remember when the #1 pick wasn't all that great, but times have DEFINITELY changed, and the "top spots" have been more desirable for quite some time.
Honestly, I put that one on the media, as if it wasn't for so many websites, magazines, etc. out there now (who ALL have the same top 3 or 4 it seems), things may be different. Once you get to the 12-14 picks, MANY forms of media have MANY different projections, so therefore, the top 3-4 "sure things" APPEAR to be where everyone wants to be. Look at last year, was there a KDS that DID NOT have the top 3 slots (ranked in some order) as their top 3 selections????
Right there (and this year SHOULDN'T be different) shows that the top spots ARE coveted, and therein lies the reason for the implemnentation of 3RR.
Everybody can have their opinions about it, but if the NFFC was going to go forward with this, this DEFINITELY was the time due to LT's record breaking season, and the consensus top 3 appearing to be LT, S-Jax, and LJ going into the 2007 season.
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ultimatefs
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by renman:
I am finding 3RR more attractive now as it takes away some of the predictability of the draft... it adds a little texture and more unique opportunities for differing strategies... Having said that, your initial post in this thread was very good, totally reasonable, and a fair point to make and question to pose... Sometimes I get the sense some here have played fantays football for a whole whopping 3 years. because I can remember MANY years where drafting from the top spot was death... I can remember many seasons where you were much happier picking the 13th and 14th players as opposed to the 1st and 24th...
Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... I am finding one person is slow to catch on. That's what I see from reading some posts here. That person "selectively" asks questions others get w/o having to ask them.
I have run 14-team leagues for 22 years now, probably 300+ drafts, an NO ONE HAS EVER SAID they preferred drafting last. All I've rec'd for 22 years is incessant whining about never getting a top spot.
You say "many" seasons? I can't think of one. EVER.
You have a delusional memory.
I am finding 3RR more attractive now as it takes away some of the predictability of the draft... it adds a little texture and more unique opportunities for differing strategies... Having said that, your initial post in this thread was very good, totally reasonable, and a fair point to make and question to pose... Sometimes I get the sense some here have played fantays football for a whole whopping 3 years. because I can remember MANY years where drafting from the top spot was death... I can remember many seasons where you were much happier picking the 13th and 14th players as opposed to the 1st and 24th...
Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... I am finding one person is slow to catch on. That's what I see from reading some posts here. That person "selectively" asks questions others get w/o having to ask them.
I have run 14-team leagues for 22 years now, probably 300+ drafts, an NO ONE HAS EVER SAID they preferred drafting last. All I've rec'd for 22 years is incessant whining about never getting a top spot.
You say "many" seasons? I can't think of one. EVER.
You have a delusional memory.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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Gordon Gekko
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Nag':
As far as accusing me of being afraid of change, Mark, you know better than that. I have been very active in pushing forward many rule changes in WCOFF as well as here. I am in favor of KDS and even BDDS (although I didn't agree now was the right time for it for the NFFC). ya i know. which is very puzzling why you aren't taking a stand on 3RR. i guess you are still in the information gathering stage?
[ February 14, 2007, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
As far as accusing me of being afraid of change, Mark, you know better than that. I have been very active in pushing forward many rule changes in WCOFF as well as here. I am in favor of KDS and even BDDS (although I didn't agree now was the right time for it for the NFFC). ya i know. which is very puzzling why you aren't taking a stand on 3RR. i guess you are still in the information gathering stage?
[ February 14, 2007, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
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Gordon Gekko
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- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones. This is what I DON'T understand. If you actually believe what you're typing above, I can't see why you wouldn't accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP (maybe not solve) but HELP lessen the advantage you speak of that the top picks have.
Could it lean the other way and more of the bottom teams win? I for one, certainly hope so.
Will 3RR perfect the issue so that evenly across the board every spot wins evenly? NO, I'm sure it won't, but let's just say if currently, the top 4 picks win 50% of the time compared to the 28.5% of the time the laws of averages state would be "even" (4 out of 14), we have a problem.
Let's say after 3-5 years pass(enough data), 50% of the teams from the bottom 4 spots win, then maybe 3RR should be 5RR. I think what all of us have experienced over the last 3-5 years is evidence something should be done about the advantage the top spots have had and enjoyed.
3RR doesn't GUARANTEE anything, but one would think it has to help. Anyone stating WHAT it will do definitively is gambling, but common sense tells us its gotta help lessen the edge.
Thankfully, the guys that WIN the draft spot lottery won't be counting their winning checks as fast as they have in the past. [/QUOTE]scott - spot on! good job!
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones. This is what I DON'T understand. If you actually believe what you're typing above, I can't see why you wouldn't accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP (maybe not solve) but HELP lessen the advantage you speak of that the top picks have.
Could it lean the other way and more of the bottom teams win? I for one, certainly hope so.
Will 3RR perfect the issue so that evenly across the board every spot wins evenly? NO, I'm sure it won't, but let's just say if currently, the top 4 picks win 50% of the time compared to the 28.5% of the time the laws of averages state would be "even" (4 out of 14), we have a problem.
Let's say after 3-5 years pass(enough data), 50% of the teams from the bottom 4 spots win, then maybe 3RR should be 5RR. I think what all of us have experienced over the last 3-5 years is evidence something should be done about the advantage the top spots have had and enjoyed.
3RR doesn't GUARANTEE anything, but one would think it has to help. Anyone stating WHAT it will do definitively is gambling, but common sense tells us its gotta help lessen the edge.
Thankfully, the guys that WIN the draft spot lottery won't be counting their winning checks as fast as they have in the past. [/QUOTE]scott - spot on! good job!
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
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Gordon Gekko
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- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... So your post is stating those who believe in 3RR are somehow "rookies" ?
How is this more tasteful "JAB" any different in the end from one of GG's?
BTW: Not picking a fight, just pointing out the irony. [/QUOTE]scott - in case you didn't know yet...no one really reads what renman writes. but we gotta keep him around. he's like the rock you keep kicking while you walk down the street
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... So your post is stating those who believe in 3RR are somehow "rookies" ?
How is this more tasteful "JAB" any different in the end from one of GG's?
BTW: Not picking a fight, just pointing out the irony. [/QUOTE]scott - in case you didn't know yet...no one really reads what renman writes. but we gotta keep him around. he's like the rock you keep kicking while you walk down the street
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... So your post is stating those who believe in 3RR are somehow "rookies" ?
How is this more tasteful "JAB" any different in the end from one of GG's?
BTW: Not picking a fight, just pointing out the irony. [/QUOTE]team legacy,
I SUPPORT 3RR. So how am I saying those who support 3RR are rookies? This is what baffles me about message boards. What I said in reality was that those who think drafting from the TOP OF THE BOARD IS SOME "MASSIVE ADVANTAGE" either know nothing about fantasy football, are not honest about the history of fantasy football, or have played for 3 years.
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... So your post is stating those who believe in 3RR are somehow "rookies" ?
How is this more tasteful "JAB" any different in the end from one of GG's?
BTW: Not picking a fight, just pointing out the irony. [/QUOTE]team legacy,
I SUPPORT 3RR. So how am I saying those who support 3RR are rookies? This is what baffles me about message boards. What I said in reality was that those who think drafting from the TOP OF THE BOARD IS SOME "MASSIVE ADVANTAGE" either know nothing about fantasy football, are not honest about the history of fantasy football, or have played for 3 years.
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ultimatefs
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones. This is what I DON'T understand. If you actually believe what you're typing above, I can't see why you wouldn't accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP (maybe not solve) but HELP lessen the advantage you speak of that the top picks have.
Could it lean the other way and more of the bottom teams win? I for one, certainly hope so.
Will 3RR perfect the issue so that evenly across the board every spot wins evenly? NO, I'm sure it won't, but let's just say if currently, the top 4 picks win 50% of the time compared to the 28.5% of the time the laws of averages state would be "even" (4 out of 14), we have a problem.
Let's say after 3-5 years pass(enough data), 50% of the teams from the bottom 4 spots win, then maybe 3RR should be 5RR. I think what all of us have experienced over the last 3-5 years is evidence something should be done about the advantage the top spots have had and enjoyed.
3RR doesn't GUARANTEE anything, but one would think it has to help. Anyone stating WHAT it will do definitively is gambling, but common sense tells us its gotta help lessen the edge.
Thankfully, the guys that WIN the draft spot lottery won't be counting their winning checks as fast as they have in the past. [/QUOTE]scott - spot on! good job! [/QUOTE]This was a good post.
1) 5RR would do nothing to help. It would be an exercise in futility.
2) you won't see 11-14 getting 50% over any 3-5 year period.
If 1-4 are 50% right now (and I have no idea what that number actually is), you'll see that go to 32-38%. These picks will still be the best picks, just not as good as before.
quote:Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones. This is what I DON'T understand. If you actually believe what you're typing above, I can't see why you wouldn't accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP (maybe not solve) but HELP lessen the advantage you speak of that the top picks have.
Could it lean the other way and more of the bottom teams win? I for one, certainly hope so.
Will 3RR perfect the issue so that evenly across the board every spot wins evenly? NO, I'm sure it won't, but let's just say if currently, the top 4 picks win 50% of the time compared to the 28.5% of the time the laws of averages state would be "even" (4 out of 14), we have a problem.
Let's say after 3-5 years pass(enough data), 50% of the teams from the bottom 4 spots win, then maybe 3RR should be 5RR. I think what all of us have experienced over the last 3-5 years is evidence something should be done about the advantage the top spots have had and enjoyed.
3RR doesn't GUARANTEE anything, but one would think it has to help. Anyone stating WHAT it will do definitively is gambling, but common sense tells us its gotta help lessen the edge.
Thankfully, the guys that WIN the draft spot lottery won't be counting their winning checks as fast as they have in the past. [/QUOTE]scott - spot on! good job!
[/QUOTE]This was a good post.1) 5RR would do nothing to help. It would be an exercise in futility.
2) you won't see 11-14 getting 50% over any 3-5 year period.
If 1-4 are 50% right now (and I have no idea what that number actually is), you'll see that go to 32-38%. These picks will still be the best picks, just not as good as before.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.