3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
GG,
I am speaking in terms of having the NFFC attract more competitors and be more successful, which strengthens the event long-term. I do not think that adding more rules like this does that that. The reasons I stated are why this event is never sold out and has problems attracting competitors. It makes the event more of a unique, specialty event, which is actually great for players like me and you, but casual entrants get scared off from it. If that is fine with Greg, that is fine with me, but it limits the event.
I did state that personally I like the idea, and I would be more likely to join had I not played in it before. But I am not the type of fantasy player this event needs to attract. You need the people that have not played in an event like this before. Dave,
All good points made by a fellow Cheesehead. There is no question that from a more traditional standpoint, the WCOFF has more standard rules than the NFFC. But traditional players didn't play with 1 point per reception rules at one time or 0.1 point per yard rushing and now suddently those are "standard" rules. Serpentine drafts are also standard, but change is constant in this world and maybe 3RR will be as standard as 1 point per reception leagues some day.
But you are exactly right about your assessment on both contests. If I had thought of doing this first, I definitely would have done a 12-team format. In fact, I had never competed in a 14-team fantasy football league before I devised these rules. I remember writing the rules up, checking them over several times, checking with Tom again and struggling to post the rules with this 14-team format because I knew it was different. But I also knew it would create the ultimate competition for die-hard fantasy football players. My baseball contest was created before the baseball event and I went with a 15-team format for that as well, not because it was a "standard" format but because it was the ultimate competition.
I'd be a fool to say I don't want to be the biggest and the best game in the industry. I think we could handle 800+ teams and the money that comes with it! But we have created a better game for players and if that hurts our growth, well, then I guess we just budget accordingly. We don't need to be fat cats up here, just fat!
I'm happy with our growth in the NFFC and the NFBC and I expect that growth to continue in 2007. In fact, our baseball event right now is just on fire. 3RR is unique, but don't be surprised if you see a lot of magazines write about this concept this year as I'm going to do my best to spread the word. Maybe 3RR won't be as hard to sell to customers as some people think. I actually think the 14-team format is a tougher sell than 3RR or FAAB or KDS.
But all points are well taken by me and it just means we have to work harder to appeal to fantasy players out there. I'm capable of doing that, trust me!
GG,
I am speaking in terms of having the NFFC attract more competitors and be more successful, which strengthens the event long-term. I do not think that adding more rules like this does that that. The reasons I stated are why this event is never sold out and has problems attracting competitors. It makes the event more of a unique, specialty event, which is actually great for players like me and you, but casual entrants get scared off from it. If that is fine with Greg, that is fine with me, but it limits the event.
I did state that personally I like the idea, and I would be more likely to join had I not played in it before. But I am not the type of fantasy player this event needs to attract. You need the people that have not played in an event like this before. Dave,
All good points made by a fellow Cheesehead. There is no question that from a more traditional standpoint, the WCOFF has more standard rules than the NFFC. But traditional players didn't play with 1 point per reception rules at one time or 0.1 point per yard rushing and now suddently those are "standard" rules. Serpentine drafts are also standard, but change is constant in this world and maybe 3RR will be as standard as 1 point per reception leagues some day.
But you are exactly right about your assessment on both contests. If I had thought of doing this first, I definitely would have done a 12-team format. In fact, I had never competed in a 14-team fantasy football league before I devised these rules. I remember writing the rules up, checking them over several times, checking with Tom again and struggling to post the rules with this 14-team format because I knew it was different. But I also knew it would create the ultimate competition for die-hard fantasy football players. My baseball contest was created before the baseball event and I went with a 15-team format for that as well, not because it was a "standard" format but because it was the ultimate competition.
I'd be a fool to say I don't want to be the biggest and the best game in the industry. I think we could handle 800+ teams and the money that comes with it! But we have created a better game for players and if that hurts our growth, well, then I guess we just budget accordingly. We don't need to be fat cats up here, just fat!
I'm happy with our growth in the NFFC and the NFBC and I expect that growth to continue in 2007. In fact, our baseball event right now is just on fire. 3RR is unique, but don't be surprised if you see a lot of magazines write about this concept this year as I'm going to do my best to spread the word. Maybe 3RR won't be as hard to sell to customers as some people think. I actually think the 14-team format is a tougher sell than 3RR or FAAB or KDS.
But all points are well taken by me and it just means we have to work harder to appeal to fantasy players out there. I'm capable of doing that, trust me!
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by UFS:
quote:Originally posted by RiFF:
quote:Originally posted by Team Legacy:
[, I would think that adding the 29th player instead of the 42nd, will narrow the gap, not give an edge to the later picks. It still comes down to nailing picks, but at least after the first couple rounds of drafting, the teams won't be as lopsided as they have been statistically the past few years.
It would be difficult to argue that trading pick 42 for pick 29 doesn't make draft slot 14 stronger. BUT, 3RR doesn't stop there. Slot 14 also trades pick 43, which still has a nice selection of WR's and RB's available , for pick 56; which, imo, negates much of the advantage gained in the 29/42 swap. To paraphrase what another poster said in another thread; in the 3rd round, with 3RR, slot 14 may not get a materially better player but he can choose which player that will be instead of having to "settle" for a player. And, vice versa for slot 1. But again, imo, that flexibilty in round 3 comes at a cost; having to swap pick 43 for pick 56. I have come to the conclusion that I strongly favor 3RR. This is because I now believe 3RR will marginally improve my chances for an early draft slot, IF the sentiments being posted for 3RR are accurate regarding the new found appreciation for late draft slots. Having said that I shouldn't be voicing any negative concerns I have with the late draft slots in 3RR; but I also favor Full Disclosure. [/QUOTE]Which is why I said the top picks will still be the better ones.
The difference in rd 3 can be very large.
As in Wayne to J.Lewis, about 90 points.
The difference in Rd 4 is not that large. Someone would have to nail it as mentioned to gain back those 90 points.
And then I could go on and say the first pick in rd 5 negates what you mentioned in round 4.
So at the end of the day, the switch is round 3 can only be discounted a tad. [/QUOTE]Obviously its possible to "compare" 2 players you choose to make your point. How about swapping Wayne for Randy Moss and J Lewwis for TJ Houshyourmama??
quote:Originally posted by RiFF:
quote:Originally posted by Team Legacy:
[, I would think that adding the 29th player instead of the 42nd, will narrow the gap, not give an edge to the later picks. It still comes down to nailing picks, but at least after the first couple rounds of drafting, the teams won't be as lopsided as they have been statistically the past few years.
It would be difficult to argue that trading pick 42 for pick 29 doesn't make draft slot 14 stronger. BUT, 3RR doesn't stop there. Slot 14 also trades pick 43, which still has a nice selection of WR's and RB's available , for pick 56; which, imo, negates much of the advantage gained in the 29/42 swap. To paraphrase what another poster said in another thread; in the 3rd round, with 3RR, slot 14 may not get a materially better player but he can choose which player that will be instead of having to "settle" for a player. And, vice versa for slot 1. But again, imo, that flexibilty in round 3 comes at a cost; having to swap pick 43 for pick 56. I have come to the conclusion that I strongly favor 3RR. This is because I now believe 3RR will marginally improve my chances for an early draft slot, IF the sentiments being posted for 3RR are accurate regarding the new found appreciation for late draft slots. Having said that I shouldn't be voicing any negative concerns I have with the late draft slots in 3RR; but I also favor Full Disclosure. [/QUOTE]Which is why I said the top picks will still be the better ones.
The difference in rd 3 can be very large.
As in Wayne to J.Lewis, about 90 points.
The difference in Rd 4 is not that large. Someone would have to nail it as mentioned to gain back those 90 points.
And then I could go on and say the first pick in rd 5 negates what you mentioned in round 4.
So at the end of the day, the switch is round 3 can only be discounted a tad. [/QUOTE]Obviously its possible to "compare" 2 players you choose to make your point. How about swapping Wayne for Randy Moss and J Lewwis for TJ Houshyourmama??
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
I for one would probably HAVE NOT gotten in the NFFC if it were a 12 team league, because that is "just like everyone else".
The 14 team leagues will catch on. Adding 3RR only makes it more enticing IMO, but I think within 5 years, the NFFC will be the premier fantasy football contest in the country.
Good things come to those who wait!
The 14 team leagues will catch on. Adding 3RR only makes it more enticing IMO, but I think within 5 years, the NFFC will be the premier fantasy football contest in the country.
Good things come to those who wait!
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Obviously its possible to "compare" 2 players you choose to make your point. How about swapping Wayne for Randy Moss and J Lewwis for TJ Houshyourmama?? [/QB]I chose the two players from Jules team that picked 2nd and took LT2 in our league.
I didn't choose those players to make a point, I chose the players looking at my league.
You can look at any of the drafts and see that a vast majority of the early 3rd's have a big advantage over the late 3rd's.
You can't legislate for the stupidity in taking Moss in Rd 3.
I didn't choose those players to make a point, I chose the players looking at my league.
You can look at any of the drafts and see that a vast majority of the early 3rd's have a big advantage over the late 3rd's.
You can't legislate for the stupidity in taking Moss in Rd 3.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
But all points are well taken by me and it just means we have to work harder to appeal to fantasy players out there. I'm capable of doing that, trust me!What Greg is trying to say is there is plenty of Corona money budgeted for future Vegas drafts so he's ready for the challenge.
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by UFS:
You can't legislate for the stupidity in taking Moss in Rd 3One owner from every single NFFC league, main event and others, were just called stupid. Not to mention every other owner in the entire FF world.
In hindsight, of course, so I'm sure no offense was intended. :rolleyes:
You can't legislate for the stupidity in taking Moss in Rd 3One owner from every single NFFC league, main event and others, were just called stupid. Not to mention every other owner in the entire FF world.
In hindsight, of course, so I'm sure no offense was intended. :rolleyes:
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by UFS:
quote:Obviously its possible to "compare" 2 players you choose to make your point. How about swapping Wayne for Randy Moss and J Lewwis for TJ Houshyourmama?? I chose the two players from Jules team that picked 2nd and took LT2 in our league.
I didn't choose those players to make a point, I chose the players looking at my league.
You can look at any of the drafts and see that a vast majority of the early 3rd's have a big advantage over the late 3rd's.
You can't legislate for the stupidity in taking Moss in Rd 3. [/QB][/QUOTE]Again, I could say you can't account for the stupidity of selecting Lewis in the 3rd round over TJ. The point is, as I've previously said, there MAY be a slight increase to the valuue of the late draft slots using 3RR. And I believe this perceived advantage gained is at the peril of the early mid slots and NOT the 1st few slots. But trading picks 42 and 43 for picks 29 and 56, imo, doesn't significantly increase the overall value of slot 14 AND puts significant pressure on slot 14 NOT to choose a R Moss, C Chambers, or R Droughns level of performance with pick 29.
It changes from year to year, but I do somewhat disagree with you in your statement that there isn't a fairly steep drop-off, especially, in available WR/RB talent from the end of the 3rd/early 4th rounds to the end of the 4th/early 5th rounds. So, I guess my main contention with your thesis is that there isn't a fairly significant difference in available talent between pick 43 and 56. Which, again, has the potential to negate a significant portion of the advantage gained from the 29/43 swap.
Also, as you have pointed out, regardless of when you are picking you still must choose the right player out of the players available with that pick.
quote:Obviously its possible to "compare" 2 players you choose to make your point. How about swapping Wayne for Randy Moss and J Lewwis for TJ Houshyourmama?? I chose the two players from Jules team that picked 2nd and took LT2 in our league.
I didn't choose those players to make a point, I chose the players looking at my league.
You can look at any of the drafts and see that a vast majority of the early 3rd's have a big advantage over the late 3rd's.
You can't legislate for the stupidity in taking Moss in Rd 3. [/QB][/QUOTE]Again, I could say you can't account for the stupidity of selecting Lewis in the 3rd round over TJ. The point is, as I've previously said, there MAY be a slight increase to the valuue of the late draft slots using 3RR. And I believe this perceived advantage gained is at the peril of the early mid slots and NOT the 1st few slots. But trading picks 42 and 43 for picks 29 and 56, imo, doesn't significantly increase the overall value of slot 14 AND puts significant pressure on slot 14 NOT to choose a R Moss, C Chambers, or R Droughns level of performance with pick 29.
It changes from year to year, but I do somewhat disagree with you in your statement that there isn't a fairly steep drop-off, especially, in available WR/RB talent from the end of the 3rd/early 4th rounds to the end of the 4th/early 5th rounds. So, I guess my main contention with your thesis is that there isn't a fairly significant difference in available talent between pick 43 and 56. Which, again, has the potential to negate a significant portion of the advantage gained from the 29/43 swap.
Also, as you have pointed out, regardless of when you are picking you still must choose the right player out of the players available with that pick.
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3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by RiFF:
[Again, I could say you can't account for the stupidity of selecting Lewis in the 3rd round over TJ. Yes I can, I took TJ with the pick prior to Lewis
p.s. I never said Lewis was taken in 3rd rd, 4th.
[ February 15, 2007, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]
[Again, I could say you can't account for the stupidity of selecting Lewis in the 3rd round over TJ. Yes I can, I took TJ with the pick prior to Lewis
p.s. I never said Lewis was taken in 3rd rd, 4th.
[ February 15, 2007, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by UFS:
quote:Originally posted by RiFF:
[Again, I could say you can't account for the stupidity of selecting Lewis in the 3rd round over TJ. Yes I can, I took TJ with the pick prior to Lewis
p.s. I never said Lewis was taken in 3rd rd, 4th. [/QUOTE]LOL....well it seems we can put to rest that malicious rumor surrounding your stupidity.
You compared the significant performance difference between R Wayne and J Lewis.
quote:Originally posted by RiFF:
[Again, I could say you can't account for the stupidity of selecting Lewis in the 3rd round over TJ. Yes I can, I took TJ with the pick prior to Lewis
p.s. I never said Lewis was taken in 3rd rd, 4th. [/QUOTE]LOL....well it seems we can put to rest that malicious rumor surrounding your stupidity.
You compared the significant performance difference between R Wayne and J Lewis.
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by RiFF:
And I believe this perceived advantage gained is at the peril of the early mid slots and NOT the 1st few slots.This brings up yet another question. Do statistics show that the middle slots (7 and 8) have a higher rate of success than the lower ones? It seems to me that this would have to be true for 3RR to be justified since 3RR it NOT helping the middle slots in any way - only the lower ones?
[ February 15, 2007, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Nag' ]
And I believe this perceived advantage gained is at the peril of the early mid slots and NOT the 1st few slots.This brings up yet another question. Do statistics show that the middle slots (7 and 8) have a higher rate of success than the lower ones? It seems to me that this would have to be true for 3RR to be justified since 3RR it NOT helping the middle slots in any way - only the lower ones?
[ February 15, 2007, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Nag' ]
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