Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by UFS:
How can you buy it when he thinks picks 4-14 are all rated as a "6"? That's utter nonsense. Dude, enough with your drivel. Open your eyes.
3 years of the NFFC:
2004 Top 4 picks - 8
Middle 6 picks - 12
Bottom 4 picks - 10
2005 Top 4 picks - 16
Middle 6 picks - 8
Bottom 4 picks - 6
2006 Top 4 picks - 17
Middle 6 picks - 6
Bottom 4 picks - 7
3-year Total Top 4 picks - 41
Middle 6 picks - 26
Bottom 4 picks - 23 [/QUOTE]12-8-6 (mid)
10-6-7 (bottom)
those are equal every year? Those picks change every year. 2004 happens for the top picks about every 6-7 years. That's why a change is being made.
You keep throwing up conjecture, I'll keep throwing up experience in a 14-team format.
41-26-23 does not become
34-26-30 as you are suggesting.
41-26-23 will become
34/35-28-27/28 IMO.
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
-
ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Another possible way of looking at the impact of 3RR on the various draft slots is to use a trade analyzer tool that is provided by some of the FF sites. I do not know how value is placed on the various draft picks in these analyzers so I can not vouch for their accuracy.
I was in a Private Antsports based League last year that used a Trade Analyzer, provided by Football Guys, to analyze proposed trades involving draft picks. To the extent the Analyzer showed a proposed trade to have less than a 2.5% difference in value it was automatically approved. Using that Analyzer 3RR has the following impact from rounds 3-6.
-Draft Slots 1 and 14 - Slot 14- 2.3% increase
-Draft Slots 2 and 13 - Slot 13- 2.2% increase
-Draft Slots 3 and 12 - Slot 12- 1.4% increase
-Draft Slots 4 and 11 - Slot 11- 1.3% increase
-Draft Slots 5 and 10 - Slot 10- 1.0% increase
-Draft Slots 6 and 9 - Slot 9- 0.6% "
-Draft Slot 7 and 8 - Slot 8- 0.2% "
Obviously this tool only allows a comparison between the slots that are trading picks. But to the degree its accurate in assigning values, it does allow another observation point in determining the impact of 3RR. Adding up the totals, there is a total shift in value of 8%. Again, this is only for rounds 3-6 so there probably is some small amount of additional value shift, but these rounds should catch the bulk of it. Assuming (and someone has already pointed out ass-u-me) some degree of accuracy in the analyzer there has been approximately six tenths of one percentage shift in value due to 3RR. (8/1400) Again, I believe 3RR creates additional strategy and preparation, I'm still not entirely convinced it has done as much to the inherent value of the various draft slots as some may believe.
I was in a Private Antsports based League last year that used a Trade Analyzer, provided by Football Guys, to analyze proposed trades involving draft picks. To the extent the Analyzer showed a proposed trade to have less than a 2.5% difference in value it was automatically approved. Using that Analyzer 3RR has the following impact from rounds 3-6.
-Draft Slots 1 and 14 - Slot 14- 2.3% increase
-Draft Slots 2 and 13 - Slot 13- 2.2% increase
-Draft Slots 3 and 12 - Slot 12- 1.4% increase
-Draft Slots 4 and 11 - Slot 11- 1.3% increase
-Draft Slots 5 and 10 - Slot 10- 1.0% increase
-Draft Slots 6 and 9 - Slot 9- 0.6% "
-Draft Slot 7 and 8 - Slot 8- 0.2% "
Obviously this tool only allows a comparison between the slots that are trading picks. But to the degree its accurate in assigning values, it does allow another observation point in determining the impact of 3RR. Adding up the totals, there is a total shift in value of 8%. Again, this is only for rounds 3-6 so there probably is some small amount of additional value shift, but these rounds should catch the bulk of it. Assuming (and someone has already pointed out ass-u-me) some degree of accuracy in the analyzer there has been approximately six tenths of one percentage shift in value due to 3RR. (8/1400) Again, I believe 3RR creates additional strategy and preparation, I'm still not entirely convinced it has done as much to the inherent value of the various draft slots as some may believe.
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by UFS:
[.
I've already proven picks 4-8 have one less draft concern. A concern I remember someone posting on 8/31/06 on this MB.. (I laughed when i saw this because I've seen it in play all these years)
TO ALL OWNERS DRAFTING FROM THE 4 - 14 SPOTS IN THE THREE CITIES:
DO NOT LET EITHER PEYTON MANNING OR ANTONIO GATES SLIP BACK TO ANY OWNER DRAFTING IN THE FIRST THREE SPOTS OF THE DRAFT OR IT WILL BE THE DEATH OF YOU AND THE DEATH OF US ALL. THANK YOU. How did you prove it?? By simply stating it as fact? This may have very well been a concern for you as well as a concern for others; but it shouldn't have been. In many instances I would concur With your plea for the Greatest Good For the Greatest Number. But not in this contest. You should, I believe, draft the player that maximizes value for your team, not one that potentially helps minimize value for another team. If the same player accomplishes both...great. But your primary onjective should be to maximize value on your team.
[.
I've already proven picks 4-8 have one less draft concern. A concern I remember someone posting on 8/31/06 on this MB.. (I laughed when i saw this because I've seen it in play all these years)
TO ALL OWNERS DRAFTING FROM THE 4 - 14 SPOTS IN THE THREE CITIES:
DO NOT LET EITHER PEYTON MANNING OR ANTONIO GATES SLIP BACK TO ANY OWNER DRAFTING IN THE FIRST THREE SPOTS OF THE DRAFT OR IT WILL BE THE DEATH OF YOU AND THE DEATH OF US ALL. THANK YOU. How did you prove it?? By simply stating it as fact? This may have very well been a concern for you as well as a concern for others; but it shouldn't have been. In many instances I would concur With your plea for the Greatest Good For the Greatest Number. But not in this contest. You should, I believe, draft the player that maximizes value for your team, not one that potentially helps minimize value for another team. If the same player accomplishes both...great. But your primary onjective should be to maximize value on your team.
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by UFS:
12-8-6 (mid)
10-6-7 (bottom)
those are equal every year? Those picks change every year. 2004 happens for the top picks about every 6-7 years. That's why a change is being made.
You keep throwing up conjecture, I'll keep throwing up experience in a 14-team format.
41-26-23 does not become
34-26-30 as you are suggesting.
41-26-23 will become
34/35-28-27/28 IMO. 3RR is being implemented becasue of the statistical success of the top 3/4 picks in years past. Yes? Yes.
For our purposes, we shall use results from the 3 years of the NFFC. Yes? Yes.
In 2005 and 2006, MORE THAN FIFTY percent OF the top 30 teams in the NFFC were slots 1-4. Yes? Yes.
In 2004, there was a clear DISADVANTAGE in the top 30 results by the 1-4 slots. Yes? Yes.
3RR was invented to combat the kind of skewed results seen in 2005 & 2006, not 2004. Yes? Yes.
So in using results from the top 30 point finishers in years 2005/2006 (which are the same statistics which 3RR was born from) I have come up with my "strength value number". I gave slots 1-3 a TEN and I gave everyone else a SIX. looking back on those results, the value of SIX may actually been too high. FIVE would have been even more appropriate.
You said "4-14 are all rated as a "6"? That's utter nonsense". Apparently you think slots 4-14 are much stronger (they certainly aren't according to the 2005/2006 results above). But if you do think they are stronger, then why the heck are you so hell bent on implementing 3RR?
Nonsense? You, sir, are full of it.
12-8-6 (mid)
10-6-7 (bottom)
those are equal every year? Those picks change every year. 2004 happens for the top picks about every 6-7 years. That's why a change is being made.
You keep throwing up conjecture, I'll keep throwing up experience in a 14-team format.
41-26-23 does not become
34-26-30 as you are suggesting.
41-26-23 will become
34/35-28-27/28 IMO. 3RR is being implemented becasue of the statistical success of the top 3/4 picks in years past. Yes? Yes.
For our purposes, we shall use results from the 3 years of the NFFC. Yes? Yes.
In 2005 and 2006, MORE THAN FIFTY percent OF the top 30 teams in the NFFC were slots 1-4. Yes? Yes.
In 2004, there was a clear DISADVANTAGE in the top 30 results by the 1-4 slots. Yes? Yes.
3RR was invented to combat the kind of skewed results seen in 2005 & 2006, not 2004. Yes? Yes.
So in using results from the top 30 point finishers in years 2005/2006 (which are the same statistics which 3RR was born from) I have come up with my "strength value number". I gave slots 1-3 a TEN and I gave everyone else a SIX. looking back on those results, the value of SIX may actually been too high. FIVE would have been even more appropriate.
You said "4-14 are all rated as a "6"? That's utter nonsense". Apparently you think slots 4-14 are much stronger (they certainly aren't according to the 2005/2006 results above). But if you do think they are stronger, then why the heck are you so hell bent on implementing 3RR?
Nonsense? You, sir, are full of it.
For Players. By Players.
-
Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
You guys are STILL bashing each others brains in??? Listen, nag slots 7/8 lose a little value to the end slots, but they gain value on the early slots. You continue to fail to recognize this
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
-
sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
I think the breakdown needs refinement...grouping early and late slots success rates in groups of 4, yet to build your case you just throw in the middle 6 slots...it needs more of a breakdown than giving the middle group 50% more teams to base NFFC success off of.
It is a weakness of 3RR...and it was obvious...even in the early debates. The middle drafts slots were basically giving the early 3rd round picks to the late slots, and the early 4th round picks back to the early slots, but they (The middlers) basically draft the same team.
If those making their KDS don't know this...it could lead to more complaining...but I still think it will be fun...the draft is not won nor lost in the 3rd/4th round.
~Lance
It is a weakness of 3RR...and it was obvious...even in the early debates. The middle drafts slots were basically giving the early 3rd round picks to the late slots, and the early 4th round picks back to the early slots, but they (The middlers) basically draft the same team.
If those making their KDS don't know this...it could lead to more complaining...but I still think it will be fun...the draft is not won nor lost in the 3rd/4th round.
~Lance
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
-
sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Imagine how many LJ and LT owners would have had Gore "fall" to them if they did 3RR in 2006.
He wasn't the glamour pick...but toward the end of the 3rd...he looked good.
Another pet peeve is the bull crap of more is tougher/thus more is more skilled. If WCOFF went to 16 team leagues in 2007...they'd become the tougher league??? I don't believe so.
Diminishing returns, my friend. If you want teams filled with holes...or solid teams...it's just a preference.
~Lance
He wasn't the glamour pick...but toward the end of the 3rd...he looked good.
Another pet peeve is the bull crap of more is tougher/thus more is more skilled. If WCOFF went to 16 team leagues in 2007...they'd become the tougher league??? I don't believe so.
Diminishing returns, my friend. If you want teams filled with holes...or solid teams...it's just a preference.
~Lance
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Route C:
quote:Originally posted by GOD Loves You:
Not that anybody gives a $hit, but since everybody seems to jump on the "bash renman wagon" I just wanted to point out something. Renman was saying, in many years folks would rather have the last pick in the first round and the first pick in the 2nd, opposed to picking first in the first round and then LAST in the 2nd. Unless I can't read, he DIDN'T say, "people would rather pick at the end of the round first round instead of the beginning".
I know last year I preferred drafting from the end of the draft instead of the beginning, unless of course I received a top 2 pick. The same hold true for me in baseball. So yes, some folks do prefer the ends of the drafts. Hey Patrick...c'mon man. I know you're smart enough to add up the columns.
There is no MB posse..clique..or club...never has been. There are a solid group of people who stay active on the MB.
Renman cries foul almost weekly in his posts and alot of people (me included) tire of it.
Read his posts when someone simply disagrees with him...then you'll see who's condescending.
Nag takes alot of MB abuse...but not from me. I like him and think he is a smart guy that adds alot to the MB. So forget the conspiracy theory.
We all like who we like and dislike who we dislike.
Wanna know who I dislike?
[/QUOTE]Patrick,
See what happens when you DARE think for yourself and act outside of the message board fraternity/angry mob? Now I have made over a thousand posts on this board... RouteC here says I "cry foul weekly"... Now what "cry foul" means only the fraternity members know... I would love to see ONE example of this...among my 1000+ posts (we wont see any by the way because even route c is not sure what he is referring to) In reality, I long ago commented on the unkind and unreasonable posting style and behavior here of GG (still displayed quite regularly and commented on by others) and immediately became unpopular.
I have had countless private messages applauding me for commenting on that behavior, or comments telling me how my posts are an asset to the board... If I was so wrong, or so off base, or so misinformed, I would be ignored. Instead I seem to strike a nerve in a small (very small) handful of regulars here, some of which have threatened me publicly here (how laughable is that?)
Having said that.. I think this thread is interesting and a healthy discussion. My favorite things about 3RR have already been listed a few times. Another thing I like is that I feel it gives an advantage to the stronger fantasy player. I now will not be nearly as limited in terms of my approach to a draft based on where on the board I am slotted. To me, that is a good thing.
quote:Originally posted by GOD Loves You:
Not that anybody gives a $hit, but since everybody seems to jump on the "bash renman wagon" I just wanted to point out something. Renman was saying, in many years folks would rather have the last pick in the first round and the first pick in the 2nd, opposed to picking first in the first round and then LAST in the 2nd. Unless I can't read, he DIDN'T say, "people would rather pick at the end of the round first round instead of the beginning".
I know last year I preferred drafting from the end of the draft instead of the beginning, unless of course I received a top 2 pick. The same hold true for me in baseball. So yes, some folks do prefer the ends of the drafts. Hey Patrick...c'mon man. I know you're smart enough to add up the columns.
There is no MB posse..clique..or club...never has been. There are a solid group of people who stay active on the MB.
Renman cries foul almost weekly in his posts and alot of people (me included) tire of it.
Read his posts when someone simply disagrees with him...then you'll see who's condescending.
Nag takes alot of MB abuse...but not from me. I like him and think he is a smart guy that adds alot to the MB. So forget the conspiracy theory.
We all like who we like and dislike who we dislike.
Wanna know who I dislike?
[/QUOTE]Patrick,See what happens when you DARE think for yourself and act outside of the message board fraternity/angry mob? Now I have made over a thousand posts on this board... RouteC here says I "cry foul weekly"... Now what "cry foul" means only the fraternity members know... I would love to see ONE example of this...among my 1000+ posts (we wont see any by the way because even route c is not sure what he is referring to) In reality, I long ago commented on the unkind and unreasonable posting style and behavior here of GG (still displayed quite regularly and commented on by others) and immediately became unpopular.
I have had countless private messages applauding me for commenting on that behavior, or comments telling me how my posts are an asset to the board... If I was so wrong, or so off base, or so misinformed, I would be ignored. Instead I seem to strike a nerve in a small (very small) handful of regulars here, some of which have threatened me publicly here (how laughable is that?)
Having said that.. I think this thread is interesting and a healthy discussion. My favorite things about 3RR have already been listed a few times. Another thing I like is that I feel it gives an advantage to the stronger fantasy player. I now will not be nearly as limited in terms of my approach to a draft based on where on the board I am slotted. To me, that is a good thing.
-
Route Collectors
- Posts: 3525
- Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by renman:
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
quote:Originally posted by GOD Loves You:
Hey Patrick...c'mon man. I know you're smart enough to add up the columns.
There is no MB posse..clique..or club...never has been. There are a solid group of people who stay active on the MB.
Renman cries foul almost weekly in his posts and alot of people (me included) tire of it.
Read his posts when someone simply disagrees with him...then you'll see who's condescending.
[/QUOTE]Patrick,
See what happens when you DARE think for yourself and act outside of the message board fraternity/angry mob? Now I have made over a thousand posts on this board... RouteC here says I "cry foul weekly"... Now what "cry foul" means only the fraternity members know... I would love to see ONE example of this...among my 1000+ posts [/QUOTE]You always make my point for me!
Where are all your imaginary MB friends. Maybe you can draft some. With the implementation of 3RR you might actually score!
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
quote:Originally posted by GOD Loves You:
Hey Patrick...c'mon man. I know you're smart enough to add up the columns.
There is no MB posse..clique..or club...never has been. There are a solid group of people who stay active on the MB.
Renman cries foul almost weekly in his posts and alot of people (me included) tire of it.
Read his posts when someone simply disagrees with him...then you'll see who's condescending.
[/QUOTE]Patrick,
See what happens when you DARE think for yourself and act outside of the message board fraternity/angry mob? Now I have made over a thousand posts on this board... RouteC here says I "cry foul weekly"... Now what "cry foul" means only the fraternity members know... I would love to see ONE example of this...among my 1000+ posts [/QUOTE]You always make my point for me!
Where are all your imaginary MB friends. Maybe you can draft some. With the implementation of 3RR you might actually score!
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Route c,
You have a point? If I lacked confidence and maturity, I would feel the need to prove something to you about my private messages. No one knows what you mean by "I could score more" given I finished 5th this year in the NFFC. You, again, are lost.
Now can someone please get the topic back to 3RR? Occasionally a few "adult" men can get fixated on me and turn a thread bad. They always say I am exaggerating this "fixation"... we will see if that is true by the next few posts...lol Will they be about me or 3RR? I hope for 3RR...
[ February 15, 2007, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: renman ]
You have a point? If I lacked confidence and maturity, I would feel the need to prove something to you about my private messages. No one knows what you mean by "I could score more" given I finished 5th this year in the NFFC. You, again, are lost.
Now can someone please get the topic back to 3RR? Occasionally a few "adult" men can get fixated on me and turn a thread bad. They always say I am exaggerating this "fixation"... we will see if that is true by the next few posts...lol Will they be about me or 3RR? I hope for 3RR...
[ February 15, 2007, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: renman ]