NFL Lockout Thread

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 10, 2011 2:26 am

Originally posted by W. Klown:
What is going to happen to the free agents if they do settle this in summer?

Will there be a free agency period or will it be eliminated for 2011?

In other words what are the options?
I havent been following this at all figuring it would get settled by summer.

Well, June is only a few weeks away now so this is creeping into serious territory now IMO. I thought it wouldve been settled by now.
Also, when is the cut date for 2011? In other words say it is late August and no deal has been done? Then what? modified season? later start to season,etc? cancel the season? This is all the unknown and you have hundreds of unsigned free agents looking for jobs and don't forget there are hundreds of undrafted rookies who can't sign free agent contracts right now. There is "irrepairable harm" to the players the longer this goes on and the appeals court should realize that. But they'll cover for the NFL, sure as can be.

Both sides have to realize that once you get into July with the next appeal that we're in dangerous territory. Free agents MUST be signed at some point and undrafted rookies have to be brought in for tryouts. Remember, in this year's Pro Bowl 23 members once went undrafted, so that is still a solid talent pool. But how do they impress their coaches with just a few weeks of practices? They don't. Still, normal business has to go on, a few pre-season games would likely be played and a full 16-game season would be preferred by both sides. But that's only if things get done before Aug. 1st.

It's a shame that the players and owners have allowed this to go this far, but both are in it for the long haul. No quick settlement is coming unless the appellate court slaps the owners badly. We're all held hostage right now and that's exactly how it feels as a fan. Disgusting.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 10, 2011 2:49 am

The NFL made their case to the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals yesterday and it's covered below in the following Associated Press story. Read it first and then let's discuss:

MINNEAPOLIS -- Lifting football's labor lockout without a new contract in place would allow better-off teams to sign the best players, tipping the NFL's competitive balance and damaging the league, attorneys for the owners argued in court papers Monday.

The 74-page filing to the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis laid out the league's position in advance of a June 3 hearing on its appeal of a key decision by U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson.

Nelson issued an injunction that lifted the lockout on April 25. But the 8th Circuit issued a temporary hold of that order four days later -- meaning that players cannot work out, or sign contracts, with any of the 32 clubs.

The arguments in the filing were an expanded version of what the league has claimed all along: that the union's move to decertify after the initial bargaining talks broke down is a sham; that Nelson does not have the jurisdiction to lift the lockout; and, that she should have waited for a decision from the National Labor Relations Board before issuing that ruling.

The league also said that lifting the lockout with no labor deal in place would cause chaos, with teams trying to make decisions on signing free agents and making trades under a set of rules that could change drastically under a new agreement.

"It would be difficult, if not impossible, to unscramble the eggs and return those players to clubs that otherwise may have had contract arrangements with [or, at least, a greater ability to enter into contracts with] such players in the absence of an injunction," the league's court brief said.

The group of players suing the league, including star quarterbacks Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, have said the lockout is inflicting irreparable harm on their brief playing careers by preventing them from working out at team headquarters, holding full practices with teammates and coaches and jeopardizing games. Nelson agreed and issued the injunction.

But the NFL said Monday that the judge "failed entirely to consider the serious, immediate and irreparable harm the injunction posed to the NFL" and "vastly overstated both the harm to the [players] and the nature of that harm."

The owners argued that players do not suffer because the lockout applies equally to everyone.

"Because there are no practices or other organized football activities conducted during a lockout, no player suffers a risk of career-threatening injury or physical wear and tear," attorneys wrote.

The players' response to the league's filing is due May 20, four days after the two sides are scheduled to resume court-ordered mediation in Minneapolis.

The longer the fight over how to divvy up $9 billion in annual revenue drags on, the closer the league and players get to missing games. The first preseason game is just over two and a half months away on Aug. 7, with the regular season opener between the Saints and Packers set for Sept. 8 in Green Bay, Wis.

The league continued to pound away at the players' decision to disband their union, attempting to use some of the players' own quotes in various media outlets over the last few months to prove their point. They cited public comments by Baltimore Ravens receiver Derrick Mason, NFLPA vice president Jeff Saturday, plaintiff Mike Vrabel and others discussing the solidarity the players still feel even though the union has decertified.

A three-judge panel in St. Louis voted 2-1 to issue a temporary stay of Nelson's order on April 29, a decision that still stands. The panel could issue a ruling on a permanent stay pending the appeal any day or, according to court clerk Michael Gans, could let the temporary stay remain in place until the hearing on June 3.

The owners argued in the filing that Nelson's injunction "undercut" their leverage by allowing the players to circumvent the lockout and further delayed constructive bargaining talks, which they deemed "the essence of irreparable harm."

"As to harm to the NFL, federal labor law permits an employer to institute a lockout 'for the sole purpose of bringing economic pressure to bear in support of his legitimate bargaining position,' " the attorneys wrote.

Also on Monday, the NHL filed a brief in support of the NFL. Labor strife caused the hockey league to cancel its 2004-05 season and the current collective bargaining agreement expires in 2012.

"While the facts and circumstances may differ as between our league and the NFL, the issues presented on this appeal are of central importance to the NHL and to all participants in collective bargaining relationships in the United States," NHL attorneys wrote.

Copyright 2011 by The Associated Press

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue May 10, 2011 2:52 am

It takes far less time for juries to deliberate over murder trials than it's taking the courts to figure out the best way for all of these very rich people to split up millions of dollars.

Am I the only one who thinks there's something wrong with that?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 10, 2011 2:59 am

I'll admit that I think the owners have caused all of this to happen. I'm not for or against either side; I hate them both right now.

But the owners opted out of this agreement two years early. They created the TV contracts so that they'd get paid by the networks with or without football this year. And they continue to insist on this extra $1 billion for themselves from the total revenue to build new stadiums, which just isn't going to happen.

Their statement here on irreparable harm is downright silly. Don't they get that the irreparable harm to the players is financial, not physical. C'mon, this is weak:

But the NFL said Monday that the judge "failed entirely to consider the serious, immediate and irreparable harm the injunction posed to the NFL" and "vastly overstated both the harm to the [players] and the nature of that harm."

The owners argued that players do not suffer because the lockout applies equally to everyone.

"Because there are no practices or other organized football activities conducted during a lockout, no player suffers a risk of career-threatening injury or physical wear and tear," attorneys wrote.

And I don't understand how the owners can say that the lifting of the injunction allows big-market teams to sign all of the top free agents. If this lockout is lifted, both sides could easily agree to play 2011 under last year's rules and continue negotiating for a new agreement that starts with the 2012 season. This isn't that hard and plans were already in place to make that happen before the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals reinstated the lockout. Let's either get to the negotiating table ASAP or have the courts lift the lockout so that this season can be played under last year's rules. If I recall, last year was a record-breaking season and I trust this year will be too if something can get resolved soon.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:01 am

The more of this "behind the scenes" stuff I read, the less interested I become in professional sports. I hope the NBA is paying attention as well, because they're in even more trouble than the NFL.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:06 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
It takes far less time for juries to deliberate over murder trials than it's taking the courts to figure out the best way for all of these very rich people to split up millions of dollars.

Am I the only one who thinks there's something wrong with that? It's BILLIONS of dollars. And it's GREEEEEEEEEEED. This fight symbolizes the greed of our country today. While much of the country fights to avoid natural disasters and economic disasters, the HAVES fight in court over their billions. It's sickening and it's very reminiscent of the 1981 MLB strike. This is very, very reminiscent of the popularity of that sport at that time and of the tough economic times of our country, yet the owners and players didn't care one bit. Their greed interrupted that season and lasted for seven weeks of the summer. Shame on all of us for being here again.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:07 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:
The more of this "behind the scenes" stuff I read, the less interested I become in professional sports. I hope the NBA is paying attention as well, because they're in even more trouble than the NFL. Glenn, I'm a huge NBA fan as you know but that's a sport that needs something major to happen with a new CBA. It can't continue as status quo because that league is so messed up. There isn't a level playing field and more and more star players are trying to force their way onto "Super Teams" that threaten to make 80-90% of the league irrelevant. I would hate to lose an NBA season but I'd be willing to sacrifice one in order for that league to get a CBA similar to what the NFL has had.

What infuriates me about the NFL situation is the league isn't broke. It is thriving. REALLY thriving. These people are trying to figure out how to split up BILLIONS of dollars. That's the insanity of it all. They have taken a perfectly set up system and they're screwing it all to hell because of greed. That's what this all boils down to. The rich want to get richer and instead of being partners (which is what made the NFL great to begin with), they are selfishly pursuing their own greed and ruining this great game.

Makes me sick.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:19 am

If you want a good history lesson on sports strikes, click here:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/41968930/10_Game ... es?slide=1

And if you think the NFL owners don't hold their ground on strikes, make sure you check out the 1982 and 1987 history lessons. They interrupted almost half of the 1982 NFL season to get what they wanted and they used replacement players in 1987 to force their will on the players. I have no doubt the owners' resolve will go into the season if they really believe strongly in their position. The issues aren't over free agency this time, just splitting the pie better in their favor, so this shouldn't wipe out games, but you never know.

I'm getting more sick the more I read on this subject.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:41 am

Amazing how some things never change...

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:56 am

Just change the signature on that deflated football Glenn from Pete Rozelle to Roger Goodell. That could be a picture of Goodell's legacy too: Deflating the once-vibrant sport of pro football.