NFL Lockout Thread

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed May 25, 2011 3:37 am

Brandt says the same two things I did after the appeals court made its ruling:

1. That the NFLPA's Plan B -- if the players lose on appeal -- is a willingness to move from litigation to negotiation and make a deal.

2. That the NFL -- if it wins on appeal -- uses the leverage of an indefinite lockout fairly and reasonably with its most important partner, the players, for a deal that will define their relationship for years to come. As the NFL has found out, no one wins with a one-sided agreement.

Honestly, one or both of these points should be happening now. The second the appeals court made its ruling these points should have gone into action on both sides. There's no reason to wait until June 3. The fact both sides are more than happy to wait until then tells me that we're not any closer to common sense prevailing in this mess.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed May 25, 2011 4:02 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Brandt says the same two things I did after the appeals court made its ruling:

1. That the NFLPA's Plan B -- if the players lose on appeal -- is a willingness to move from litigation to negotiation and make a deal.

2. That the NFL -- if it wins on appeal -- uses the leverage of an indefinite lockout fairly and reasonably with its most important partner, the players, for a deal that will define their relationship for years to come. As the NFL has found out, no one wins with a one-sided agreement.

Honestly, one or both of these points should be happening now. The second the appeals court made its ruling these points should have gone into action on both sides. There's no reason to wait until June 3. The fact both sides are more than happy to wait until then tells me that we're not any closer to common sense prevailing in this mess. If you want that to happen Tom then you better talk to the leaders of the players to make a counter-offer. The owners made an updated offer to their last offer when the two sides met in Minneapolis for mediation. It was uncharacteristic for an ownership group to counter their last offer to get things moving. If the players didn't like that last offer, fine, but then come back with a counter-offer by early June. It's on the players now to move the needle if they really want a deal and to not wait until July for the court rulings. Move now NFLPA, show some leadership and make a counter-offer. NOTHING gets done until the players make the next move because the owners won't make a second counter-offer to their last proposal. THE PLAYERS MUST ACT NEXT WITH A NEW OFFER. That's the next move.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed May 25, 2011 4:08 am

According to the players, the updated offer was worse than the one offered in March. If that's true, then the owners didn't seek to negotiate fairly but rather in an attempt to use their newfound strength to gain more leverage. That's not surprising, especially since I believe they have all the power here now, but it is unfortunate and it ignores the second point I believe needs to occur to get a deal done. I don't think the players want to move away from litigation yet and I don't believe the owners are willing to use their leverage to reasonably negotiate.

So here we sit until June 3 when either one side decides to be proactive or we find out when the next appeal date will be.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed May 25, 2011 4:19 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
According to the players, the updated offer was worse than the one offered in March. If that's true, then the owners didn't seek to negotiate fairly but rather in an attempt to use their newfound strength to gain more leverage. That's not surprising, especially since I believe they have all the power here now, but it is unfortunate and it ignores the second point I believe needs to occur to get a deal done. I don't think the players want to move away from litigation yet and I don't believe the owners are willing to use their leverage to reasonably negotiate.

So here we sit until June 3 when either one side decides to be proactive or we find out when the next appeal date will be. Balderdash!!! If it was a worse offer we would have seen the worst parts in the press. And if that was the case, then the NFLPA should counter those worst parts and let the press and fans know what they've been asked to give up. Play it out in the press players right now and put pressure on the owners WITH A COUNTER OFFER. Nothing happens without a new offer from the players. And it's bad strategy to wait until July to make that next offer. It's time to get down and dirty in the negotiating room and be ready with a working plan no matter what the courts say next.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed May 25, 2011 4:23 am

I can only go by what is being reported. Kevin Mawae said the offer was worse then the March proposal. Maybe he's full of it. Maybe the owners are. Personally, I think both sides are and that's why I'm tired of hearing people talk about what they want to do instead of actually going out and getting it done.

Both sides appear content to wait until June 3. That's the sad part of this whole thing. So here we sit, losing more valuable time that could be utilized to get a new CBA done and get the NFL back in business.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed May 25, 2011 7:55 am

Commissioner Roger Goodell said after the owners' meetings in Indianapolis that they can see the fans' disinterest with the lockout in the financial metrics they use for their teams. Good, let's keep showing him and the players are disinterest until they get a deal done. Here's the wrapup report from ESPN.com:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6587648

INDIANAPOLIS -- The NFL is seeing the early signs of cracks in fan loyalty.

Ten weeks into the owners' lockout of the players, Commissioner Roger Goodell noted Wednesday the negative effect the labor dispute is having on pro football.

"Clearly it has had an impact on the fans," Goodell said as the owners completed their spring meetings. "We see it in various metrics. There's been a noticeable change, TV ratings were down on the draft roughly 4 million people. NFL.com traffic (is down), we see that."

Ticket sales also are down.

"Fans want certainty," Goodell added. "We can't underestimate that the fans are going through challenges just in the general economy."

That certainty isn't likely to come soon. Both sides have a date in 8th U.S. District Court on June 3 for hearings on the league's appeal to uphold the lockout. A decision probably won't come for several weeks, and while another set of mediation sessions is scheduled to start June 7, not much is expected from those discussions while the appeal is being considered.

The owners' meetings included lengthy talks about the labor dispute, but no deadlines have been set -- yet -- for the opening of training camps, which usually happens in late July. That drop-dead date "obviously is coming," Goodell said, barring a collective bargaining agreement.

"We've made it clear that (revenue loss) is current and will continue to accelerate and impact on the ability of ownership to make an offer (the players) find attractive," he said.

Owners were presented the full range of plans for opening weekend, from the first game on Thursday night at Lambeau Field to commemorations of the Sept. 11 attacks on the first full Sunday of games. Those dates are not in jeopardy yet, but the longer the impasse, the more in danger they would become, particularly with the league's marketing partners, sponsors and advertisers who must commit dollars to those events well in advance.

"We're not at an Armageddon date," Eric Grubman, executive vice president of business operations for the NFL, told The Associated Press. "We're not staring that in the face this week."

Several teams already have begun to consider adjusting where they hold training camp. Fifteen teams trained last summer at complexes other than their in-season facilities, and some have deadlines as early as July 1 to decide whether to return to those locales or hold a truncated training camp at home.

"If it dragged on or there was a shorter camp, something like that might not be inconceivable," Colts owner Jim Irsay said. The Colts training camp is held about an hour from Indianapolis at Anderson University.

One day after canceling the rookie symposium scheduled for June 26 in Canton, Ohio -- the first NFL event victimized by the lockout -- Goodell reiterated the league's intent to play a full schedule this season. He recognized the need not only for some sort of training camps but also for a free agency signing period once a new CBA is reached.

"The uncertainty is something we have to consider in getting players ready to play, and we have talked about different concepts," he said.

A portion of these meetings was spent on adopting rules amendments for player safety. The league also announced a policy of "club accountability" for teams whose players repeatedly are fined for flagrant hits.

Punishments for the teams will be financial, but also could include further discipline by Goodell, including stripping of draft picks, for repeat offenders -- something Goodell said he has "not contemplated yet."

That announcement brought a strong reaction from two Pittsburgh Steelers linebackers: LaMarr Woodley and the oft-fined James Harrison.

"Thoughts on "the steelers rule"??? lol im sorry that im not sorry we hit 2 hard," Woodley tweeted.

Harrison's tweet was: "I'm absolutely sure now after this last rule change that the people making the rules at the NFL are idiots."

Local reporters, concerned about next February's Super Bowl at Lucas Oil Stadium, asked several owners and Goodell whether the title game is in danger.

"You're going to have the Super Bowl here, I'm confident of that," Giants owner John Mara said.

"We're approaching 2011," Goodell added, "as we would any other season."

Copyright 2011 by The Associated Press

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed May 25, 2011 10:48 am

Coaches side with players in labor dispute. From the Associated Press:

MINNEAPOLIS -- The NFL Coaches Association is backing the players in their legal fight to end the owner-imposed lockout.

The association filed a brief with the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Wednesday. It says the lockout is inflicting irreparable harm on coaches who rely on summer minicamps and workouts to get on the same page with players heading into the season. It says newly hired coaches are being particularly harmed.

No individual coaches are identified in the brief.

The NFL says it was not surprised by the filing because the coaches' association shares an office with the NFL Players Association in Washington.

The 8th Circuit has set a June 3 hearing to hear arguments on whether the lockout is legal.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Thu May 26, 2011 8:48 am

Drew Brees speaks out - rather well in my opinion.

"I can point to about five different things to prove to you that they were ready to lock us out. They opted out of the last year of the [CBA] deal; they hired Bob Batterman [who oversaw a lockout of NHL players]. They tried to take the American Needle case to the Supreme Court to basically give them an antitrust exemption or single-entity status, but were defeated 9-0; they established new TV deals to pay them in the event of a lockout, but we were able to put a freeze on that money because they did not negotiate in good faith and broke the law. And they had an internal NFL document that was leaked -- a decision tree -- that said smack dab in the middle of it 'financial needs in a lockout.' That was in 2008, OK? So you're telling me that they had no plans to lock us out and really wanted to get a deal done? I don't think so."

Brees was just getting started.

"Their philosophy was, We're going to give you a very subpar deal, a slap-in-the-face deal, and hope that you'll accept it because hopefully we've intimidated you enough into thinking that this is a take-it-or-leave-it deal, and you're just going to succumb to the pressure," he said. "Well, guess what. We're a lot more informed and educated than in the past, and we're much better businessmen than you think and we're going to stand up for what is right and what is fair. Fifty-fifty is fair. It's been fair for the last 20 years and I think the game has done pretty well over the last 20 years. I think franchise values have gone up at a pretty good rate over the last 20 years. So you can't sit here and tell me that the system is broken."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... index.html

[ May 26, 2011, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Old School · Post by **Old School** » Thu May 26, 2011 4:46 pm

Drew Brees should shut his mouth. Anyone that says the owners looked at Gene Upshaws death as an opportunity to stick to the players is just an ass who's worried about his own humongous salary.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri May 27, 2011 2:47 am

Roger Goodell spun his BS through another season-ticket holder teleconference, this time telling Tennessee Titan fans basically the same thing. If he really knows this can be solved through negotiations, then it's time for him to lead his band of owners to the leaders of the players and get this done. Here's the replay of yesterday's conference call:

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell defended the lockout to some unhappy Tennessee Titans fans and said that the league does not have a "drop dead date" to end the impasse.

"We're going to work to try to get this done and try to avoid having lost anything more of the NFL than we've already lost," the commissioner said.

Goodell held his latest conference call with season ticket holders Thursday, this time spending about 36 minutes on the telephone with Titans fans. They asked Goodell about whether the 2011 will be wiped out, an 18-game schedule, expansion to Los Angeles and how ticket prices are set.

Most of the fans the commissioner heard from were not happy about the situation.

Lee from Joelton wanted to know why NFL owners won't open their books up to the players, John from Lafayette asked how far apart owners and players really are, and Phillip from Nashville had no question but warned the commissioner upset fans will take their anger out on the NFL.

"Get everybody to sit down and stay until they work out some agreement and get this thing behind them before the NFL loses all credibility," said Phillip, who shares eight season tickets with his son.

William from San Ramon, Calif., flies to Nashville for three games a season, and he reminded Goodell of Major League Baseball's struggles to regain fans after a strike wiped out the 1994 World Series.

"It's like Rome's a great empire, so's the NFL. But if it's not supported by the fans, it won't be a great empire," William said.

Goodell calmly answered each question, defending the lockout as a tool to force negotiations. He said he understands fans' frustration and anger directed at the NFL.

"I think all of us will bear the responsibility for it if we're not able to come up with solutions," Goodell said.

The commissioner also defended owners not opening the books, saying that won't not solve the issue. Goodell said players have the league's revenue "down to a penny" and know costs are rising faster than revenues. He said NFL economics have changed dramatically over the last 10 to 15 years.

"These are serious issues that need to be addressed, and this is the time to do it and not kick the can down the street here," Goodell said.

"The owners have been responsive to putting a fair proposal on the table. We now need the players to engage rather than litigate and to get back to trying to solve the problems, which as you point out are at the core economic issues."

Goodell also said the NFL intends to play the full season. But he noted the league had to cancel its annual rookie symposium for June earlier this week with the start of training camps dangerously close.

"We don't have a drop dead date," Goodell said.

When a man asked where he could find an objective breakdown of the differences between owners and players, Goodell pointed him toward the websites for the league and the NFL Players Association's website.

The commissioner said negotiations, not lawsuits, will settle this labor dispute.

"There are obviously issues that we disagree on, but there are certainly solutions to those disagreements. I think it's going to come down to everyone realizing we're better off working together to find solutions than fighting," Goodell said. "That's in the best interest of growing the game and will be in the best interest of all parties going forward."

Copyright 2011 by The Associated Press