NFL Lockout Thread

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:36 am

Brandt's full analysis of today's hearings are posted on his web site:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/App ... lysis.html

Football's day in court has ended. The Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals kept the arguments and the schedule tight and stayed within the prescribed guidelines of a half hour each. Here are my thoughts:

The Light Switch

Paul Clement -- the attorney arguing for the Owners -- hammered home the point that this dispute has been and continues to be a labor dispute, not an antitrust litigation. He maintained the Owners' position that has not changed since March 11th: this union cannot and did not decertify within hours from engaging in a collective bargaining session on that day. Clement brought home the key language from his brief, which is that the Players can't "flip the light switch" and play "Gotcha!" in going from labor to antitrust instantaneously.

Ted Olson -- the attorney arguing for the Players -- continued to advance the Players' argument that the Players are not and do not have to be a union and that no one can force a group of employees to be a union.
The two judges that have been favoring the Owners in the stay rulings -- Judges Colloton and Benton -- appeared to be empathetic to the Owners' argument. They asked many questions to Olson about the phrase "sufficiently distant in time and circumstances" that has been used in prior cases. The argument from the Owners is that the labor exemption for the Owners -- protecting them from antitrust law -- is lasting at least through now. Judge Benton tried to get Clement pinned down on a timeframe as to how long that would be; Clement, when pressed, said at least six months.

Extraneous Antitrust suits

Clement expressed the Owners' clear annoyance that this matter has turned into an antitrust matter. He referred to the "labor tool" that the Owners have -- a lockout -- as the best way to encourage bargaining and an eventual CBA.

Olson reasserted the point that the union is dead and the Players made a clear choice. The Players chose to forego the protections from labor law to avail themselves of the advantages of antitrust law.

Norris-LaGuardia

Clement spent most of his time expanding on the Owners' consistent argument that this Act clearly prevents injunctions being granted "arising out of labor disputes."

Although the Owners' interpretation of the Act is certainly broad, I thought Olson did not address that interpretation as much as I expected. In their brief, the Players talked about how the Owners' had ignored the judicial interpretation of 80 years since its passing and also the interpretation of the 1st, 7th and 9th Circuits. Olson never made those arguments today, which was surprising for those arguments were so important in the brief.

Overall impressions

Just as the questioning of the Owners was more strident and aggressive by Judge Nelson in the lower court hearing, the converse was true today in the Eighth Circuit. The two judges who had sided with the Owners in the stay ruling seemed to be consistent in their questioning of Olson. The judge who sided with the Players -- Judge Bye -- was silent throughout except for closing remarks.

The show of support by more than 20 NFL players -- including Cullen Jenkins, whose contract I negotiated four years ago and is now a free agent -- was impressive and notable, although I don't think it will sway any of the judges.

If pressed to give an edge based on their presentations today, I would give it to Clement. He was able to make his arguments more expansively and expressively, primarily due to being interrupted less by the questioning.

We wait for a decision "in due course" and hope the sides heed Judge's Bye's closing remarks that the Court "wouldn't be hurt" if the parties settled this dispute themselves. Neither would any of us.

[ June 03, 2011, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]

kentucky · Post by **kentucky** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:22 am

The courts have a lot more to do than deal with a labor dispute between billionaires and millionaires. Bottom line, they're going to have to sit down and negotiate. That's all these judges want them to do. It's like Congress dealing with steroids in baseball. Keep the Judicial system out of this, figure it out and lets move on.

Simple enough?

SS · Post by SS » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:16 pm

Sounds good Bill. I really have got to the point where I don't care about the daily updates. When it happens it will happen, whether we have a season or no season. We will all find out soon...

SS

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:39 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
This is all great news. I'm feeling the positive vibe as well!!!!

As for the NBA......I could give two _ _ _ _ _ !

The NBA is a joke. A bunch of guys playing one on one street ball, and no one plays defense. I can't stomach to watch it. I'm feeling it too Billy. Let's hope the two sides keep it moving forward and reach an agreement.

Billy is a 24/7/365 NFL guy. We all know that!!!

No MLB. No NBA. Definitely no NHL!!

But unfortunately Billy, there was TOO MUCH defense in Game 1 of the NBA Finals. I hope to see more offense in Game 2. I'll definitely be watching. [/QUOTE]I still dabble in fantasy baseball (will most likely get back in NFBC next year) but watching the games is rough.

I would 100% play fantasy hockey before fantasy basketball.

Death, taxes, and BillyWaz ever playing fantasy basketball.

I will agree that they SOMETIMES play defense in the NBA playoffs, but just far too many prima donnas, and half ass effort for my taste.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:30 am

Okay, enough about the lockout for a second. Here's where the real passion is located. In Appleton, Wisconsin yesterday, more than 8,000 fans packed a minor league stadium for a Packers' charity SOFTBALL GAME. Heck, I waited too long to buy tickets and found out on Saturday the game was sold out. I couldn't believe it. Anyway, it was a great reunion for the Packers' players, Aaron Rodgers hit two home runs, it was a beautiful day and everyone was excited about the upcoming season. it doesn't get much better than that. Now we just need a season. Check it out:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/123204908.html

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:49 am

Peter King believes the next 30 days are critical in terms of ending the lockout:

The next month is crucial in the labor tussle. I wrote an essay for "Scorecard'' in SI that'll be out in a couple of days. It's about the importance of the owners and players getting something done (or making significant progress toward a deal) in the next three to four weeks -- before a three-judge panel rules whether the owners can continue to lock out the players. No spoilers here, but suffice it to say there are legitimate reasons for both sides to give a little, particularly with the ominous warning from one of the judges hearing oral arguments in the Eighth Circuit, Kermit Bye, that a ruling from the bench could be something neither side is going to like.

My hope is that both sides return to their secret lair and continue the bargaining that was begun last week in Chicago. It's a great idea. It's also an idea that needs to stay underground. There's a reason a gag order is a good idea sometimes. It prevents angry people from spoiling a chance at real momentum. There was no need, for instance, for the league's attorney, Paul Clement, to say Friday after the hearing in St. Louis that continued negotiations mean the union's decertification is a sham.

"How does that build any kind of trust?'' asked a players association spokesman. "Their lawyers risks crippling the process with remarks like that.''

Whether Clement speaks the truth is one matter; the point is, when the two sides are getting somewhere, why lob a grenade?

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/A951DD/sp ... t=hp_wr_a2

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:22 am

Just trying to keep you informed:

ESPN Radio's Dan Davis following Plaxico Burress story update: "Meanwhile the league is busy shooting itself in the foot."

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:29 am

Very interesting data from latest Turnkey Polls: 65% surveyed believe the NFL won't miss any games this season, while 60% say the NBA will miss games this season. Most NFL fans say they will be back whenever the NFL settles. See the link below:

http://turnkeyse.com/tsp/polls-sports-5-11.html

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:58 pm

There's renewed hope again with the owners and players meeting again today in New York. This session is with the federal mediator and is supposed to last a couple of days, so this is a good sign that the same participants have picked up where they left off last week. Let's keep our fingers, toes and everything else crossed this week and hope for the best. Kudos to NFL.com, which broke the story:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... _headlines

The NFL and players resumed talks on Tuesday, according to sources, in an attempt to build off last week's secret talks in suburban Chicago, and work toward a resolution to end the three-month-old lockout.

The location of this set of talks remains unknown. The NFL declined comment on the matter.

Last week's meeting lasted three days, running into Friday's hearing at the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis, on the NFL's appeal of a lockout-lifting injunction granted to the players by a district court. Following that set of talks, the league and players put out a joint statement.

"The parties met pursuant to court mediation," the statement said. "Owners and players were engaged in confidential discussions before Chief Magistrate Judge Boylan. The court has ordered continued confidentiality of the mediation sessions."

Both sides in this week's negotiating sessions are using the same cast of characters as last week, a source with knowledge of the situation told NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora.

Owners Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys), Robert Kraft (New England Patriots), Jerry Richardson (Carolina Panthers), Art Rooney (Pittsburgh Steelers) and John Mara (New York Giants) -- all members of the NFL's labor committee -- were in attendance last week, as were active players Mike Vrabel, Brian Dawkins, Tony Richardson and Jeff Saturday, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith and NFLPA president Kevin Mawae.

The set up of the talks is scheduled to be the same as well, taking place over several days as both sides try to build momentum from one sessions to the next and find some consistency with the dynamics of the negotiations.

These talks were unexpected after Boylan publicly cancelled the court-ordered mediation set to begin on Tuesday. Sources indicate Boylan moved to cancel this week's mediation in the interest of confidentiality.

When asked about the next meeting during an appearance at a military base in Fort Bragg, N.C., last Friday, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said, "We will be meeting again." Goodell declined to comment on when, but did strike an optimistic tone.

"I think it's fair to say anytime you have dialogue directly, that's going to lead to progress," he told reporters. "I think we need more of that. As you've heard me say many times, I think this is going to be solved through bargaining, not through litigation. So that (Chicago meeting) was a positive sign for us."

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:00 pm

From wire services:

NEW YORK -- The NFL and its players have again held secret talks, this time Tuesday at a New York City hotel, a source told ESPN.

Commissioner Roger Goodell, NFL Players Association head DeMaurice Smith and select owners and players were present at the meeting Tuesday, a source familiar with the talks said.

Chief Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan was also in attendance, according to the source.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league has no comment on the meeting, first reported by the NFL Network.