Originally posted by GK:
quote:Originally posted by Hard heads:
quoted from RC Techies
"3. If you have to reduce prizes, make it the grand prize. I would seriously have to reconsider my position on playing if the league prizes are reduced."
Couldn't agree with you more John! I quit playing the WCOFF because I felt the league payouts were too low. When you have 12 $1,700 entries for a total of $20,400 and you pay the league $10,000 and take $10,400 for the overall prize I feel something is wrong. Now I have also noticed that the money allocated from NFFC and NBC are similarly skewed and if league prizes were lowered I would have a hard time justifying playing high stakes fantasy games anymore. Looking at NFFC you have 14 teams at 1,300 a pop for 18,200 and you payout 8,750 to each league and 9,450 to the overall contest. Now I know those numbers are inexact due to expenses, etc, but in my opinion I would much rather play for bigger league prizes since my main goal when entering any league is to beat my league mates first and foremost and then try for the big prize as an after thought. I realize the number of entrants for each event will change things, but bottom line is I would be much more interested in bigger league payouts, then larger overall prizes. ...don't downplay the significance of the "expenses, etc." portion of your post here as that's the total outflow which is minused from the total inflow...a business is in the business of turning a profit you realize, right?...ISHO what's most important is how competitive the NFFC is in their % payouts relative to their peers...SNAKE [/QUOTE]Who is downplaying the siginificance of expenses Glenn? I own a business and fully understand the the idea is to turn a profit. I broke down the expenses to point out that I want more money to go to league payouts if I had a choice like Greg mentioned to either or lower payouts or raise payouts in the league or overall structure. As for your last line the NFFC needs to be competitive in respect to their peers, why do you think I am here and not there? I see the value in being here and I also see that Greg and Tom and everyone involved in running this contest are in it to grow it and make us the customer happier. When breaking down the numbers I left out the "events fee" WCOFF charges that covers their cost of food, space rental etc. I also left out the rooms they make you pay for to cover the requirement by the casino they are renting room from. In an effort to keep this event growing and the customers happy Greg and Tom have left these out and that kind sir is why I chose this event over WCOFF. I feel comfortable in saying that the NFFC/NBC Championship is more concerned with the customer and growing the business at their expense then WCOFF is. So, long story short I fully understand the business model and what it takes to make it profitable, but most importantly successful. Without knowing Krauses expenses of running the event nobody could ever know how fair they are and so we tend to generalize how fair our payouts are. I, however took the time to crunch the numbers when making my choice and felt very confident and very happy in choosing this event over the event with the bigger payout and longer track record. Hopefully that tells you how much I downplay the idea of how they do business.
HH
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
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Hard heads
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:00 pm
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
I also agree with more for winning your league then making the overall prize bigger.Also would like more prizes [money] for 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th for the two leagues combined.This year i put up 2600 dollars for both leagues and come in 2nd overall and get nothing.I may never have a year like this again and needs to be fixed.Also for myself and many others i wish the nbc would be lowered maybe 700 to 1000 then i could also do the main satelitte and keep my costs for all three at 2600 or less.Maybe a small discount for the owners who play all three and something for the three leagues combined.That would be a true champion.I also like the 3rd place winner getting in the big dance.I will be using my winnings from football this year in the nffc for baseball and will need a winning season in baseball to play all three events.I realize baseball is still going on when football starts but you will have an idea by then if you are cashing something.Im just happy im playing baseball this year because of my football ,because without it i would have been in big trouble.The economy is bad and not getting better.
I just have to win to play [no pressure]
I just have to win to play [no pressure]
NFBC (NY) auction league champion!
Bad(ass)Angels
He who steps to me in 2005, you better realize you dont have enough jive..... TURKEY!
Bad(ass)Angels
He who steps to me in 2005, you better realize you dont have enough jive..... TURKEY!
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
That is good stuff Eddie, and I think many are with you in the fact that money is tight right now. This is why I really think the online championship should be the 14 team variety as no one has that out there. If people have limited funds (which many do), they need to make choices, and there are MANY more 12 team choices, but only ONE high stakes 14 team event.
I really like your idea of combining a winner from the NFFC, NBC, and Online. The only catch is that there will be people with multiple teams in the online, and that could pose a problem. Otherwise, I like the thinking.
P.S. I too am taking a satellite I won and using it for a baseball main team. Unlike you however, I am a severe underdog on the bases, but I am studying and going to try my best to be competitive.
Back to the Forecaster!
I really like your idea of combining a winner from the NFFC, NBC, and Online. The only catch is that there will be people with multiple teams in the online, and that could pose a problem. Otherwise, I like the thinking.
P.S. I too am taking a satellite I won and using it for a baseball main team. Unlike you however, I am a severe underdog on the bases, but I am studying and going to try my best to be competitive.
Back to the Forecaster!
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
- ok for me, i like both events, but 1300 for each is tough especially for those doing draft masters and auction.
- for both events, i really think the league should consider taking 2 top records and 2 top point goers put them in 4 team playoff and let them battle it out. (im not trying to get off topic here).
- i agree with expanding teams for main event playoffs but just get the number of teams you want in and choose them strictly based on point totals after 13 weeks. period. the automatic bid shouldn't be the case. the main event money should be for those who are the top point getters in the leagues as a whole.
ok, the only other thing i really want or 2 things.. is an end of season auction tournament. have everyone who takes part in auction league no matter the entry fee, contribute a little extra and take the top point getters after 13 weeks and put them in end of season tournament for grand prize.. orsomething to that effect. i'd love to stick with NFFC on every event, but the only thing the wcoff has over them in mmy mind is their 1000 auction tournament..
also, Greg, would like to get one keeper league set up..
For another location, i say scratch New York and go with AC. just better.. NY is tough, thesame guys would come to AC and there is more to do.
Definitely onliine event would be great.!
good job this year.. no matter what you guys do im in..
- for both events, i really think the league should consider taking 2 top records and 2 top point goers put them in 4 team playoff and let them battle it out. (im not trying to get off topic here).
- i agree with expanding teams for main event playoffs but just get the number of teams you want in and choose them strictly based on point totals after 13 weeks. period. the automatic bid shouldn't be the case. the main event money should be for those who are the top point getters in the leagues as a whole.
ok, the only other thing i really want or 2 things.. is an end of season auction tournament. have everyone who takes part in auction league no matter the entry fee, contribute a little extra and take the top point getters after 13 weeks and put them in end of season tournament for grand prize.. orsomething to that effect. i'd love to stick with NFFC on every event, but the only thing the wcoff has over them in mmy mind is their 1000 auction tournament..
also, Greg, would like to get one keeper league set up..
For another location, i say scratch New York and go with AC. just better.. NY is tough, thesame guys would come to AC and there is more to do.
Definitely onliine event would be great.!
good job this year.. no matter what you guys do im in..
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
i hate to keep harping on this but with 14 team leagues, i have no issues just taking 60 or so of thetop teams in points after 13 weeks and putting them in main event..
but let the ind leagues have at least 4 or 6 teams battle it out for money in the league over the 13-16 week ending.
just like the auction leagues do.
you reward thetop teams who score most points by putting them in main event and keep everyone interested in ind. leagues. people are going to go into these leagues if they have a good shot at money.. main events is very tough..
it really just seems like the logical way of doing things...
but let the ind leagues have at least 4 or 6 teams battle it out for money in the league over the 13-16 week ending.
just like the auction leagues do.
you reward thetop teams who score most points by putting them in main event and keep everyone interested in ind. leagues. people are going to go into these leagues if they have a good shot at money.. main events is very tough..
it really just seems like the logical way of doing things...
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
you know for 1st time i looked at FFPC league, im not comparing Greg, just looking at what other leagues offer in rules..
they have it right in terms of playoffs. just what i said above.
give top 2 teams automatic bid into main event,
then have a 4 team playoff or similar for 1, 2 and 3rd place. out of those winners take some wild cards for remainder of championshipfiled.. but you get indivi. league involvement and the best teams in main event..
i just think thats the way to go.
they have it right in terms of playoffs. just what i said above.
give top 2 teams automatic bid into main event,
then have a 4 team playoff or similar for 1, 2 and 3rd place. out of those winners take some wild cards for remainder of championshipfiled.. but you get indivi. league involvement and the best teams in main event..
i just think thats the way to go.
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
I see lots of good suggestions, among them and/or some of them modified, I would agree with or suggest :
Lower the 12-teamer to a $650 entry with a $50k overall, that keeps it consistent with what you do in auction leagues with the 1300/650 options. This is plenty of incentive as a side show to the 14-team main event, and it also may provide a step-function for newer players to be introduced to the appeal of live events at a more palatable first-year cost.
As to the bonus, I agree with others that it would be better spent as a reward for the top few players in combined standings between the two live contests. (In better times with more industry growth I like the $mill bonus, but given constrained growth, better to give it back to players than pay an insurance company for a longshot).
As for a fourth city - scrap it for 2009! Can you breakeven on 2-3 leagues? I doubt you would lose many of those players who now have the online option in addition to choosing to travel to another city. Wait for a more conducive environment to expand to a fourth city, I don't think any 4th will be worth your while this year.
Adding a third team to the championship round, excellent idea. I also agree with weber above that league prize money should be more along the lines of the auction leagues with at least a 4-team playoff determining the lge champ rather than the point leader thru 13 weeks.
[ December 29, 2008, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
Lower the 12-teamer to a $650 entry with a $50k overall, that keeps it consistent with what you do in auction leagues with the 1300/650 options. This is plenty of incentive as a side show to the 14-team main event, and it also may provide a step-function for newer players to be introduced to the appeal of live events at a more palatable first-year cost.
As to the bonus, I agree with others that it would be better spent as a reward for the top few players in combined standings between the two live contests. (In better times with more industry growth I like the $mill bonus, but given constrained growth, better to give it back to players than pay an insurance company for a longshot).
As for a fourth city - scrap it for 2009! Can you breakeven on 2-3 leagues? I doubt you would lose many of those players who now have the online option in addition to choosing to travel to another city. Wait for a more conducive environment to expand to a fourth city, I don't think any 4th will be worth your while this year.
Adding a third team to the championship round, excellent idea. I also agree with weber above that league prize money should be more along the lines of the auction leagues with at least a 4-team playoff determining the lge champ rather than the point leader thru 13 weeks.
[ December 29, 2008, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Continuing ...
I agree with Waz on the merits of the online contest being a 14-teamer.
I also think the standalone satellites will continue to slip going forward as we FF players have had a taste of the online championships for a slight bump in cost. The DC format is a different story - those are great as standalones - but I think the regular satellite lges will continue to be marginalized such that I would shift all online efforts to: 1) a 14-tm online championship, and 2) DC format leagues.
I agree with Waz on the merits of the online contest being a 14-teamer.
I also think the standalone satellites will continue to slip going forward as we FF players have had a taste of the online championships for a slight bump in cost. The DC format is a different story - those are great as standalones - but I think the regular satellite lges will continue to be marginalized such that I would shift all online efforts to: 1) a 14-tm online championship, and 2) DC format leagues.
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Originally posted by bald is beautiful:
I will give you a detailed response to all your questions later, but in the couple of minutes I have right now I must say this - any plans of profitable expansion, whether by an on-line championship, increased participation in the NBC 12 teamer, etc., is, in my opinion, a pipe dream.
Our economy is going to go through further massive pain this year. Almost everyone I talk to in all industries is feeling the pain, and it is not going to get better soon.
Now perhaps I'm wrong and the people who play these contests have more disposable income than I think. But I doubt I'm wrong, especially considering the contraction you saw this year in the football leagues. Add in the additional competition, and your slice of the market gets further attacked. bald - you are correct, the hit to disposable income is reaching across virtually every group in the economy. This is unlike any recession the US has experienced since fantasy football was invented. 2009 will be tough and even 2010 could be tough.
On the competitive front, good news for the NFFC is that this will slow or extinguish the pace of growth in new contests - if you're not established yet, good luck trying to enter the market over the next 2 years.
I will give you a detailed response to all your questions later, but in the couple of minutes I have right now I must say this - any plans of profitable expansion, whether by an on-line championship, increased participation in the NBC 12 teamer, etc., is, in my opinion, a pipe dream.
Our economy is going to go through further massive pain this year. Almost everyone I talk to in all industries is feeling the pain, and it is not going to get better soon.
Now perhaps I'm wrong and the people who play these contests have more disposable income than I think. But I doubt I'm wrong, especially considering the contraction you saw this year in the football leagues. Add in the additional competition, and your slice of the market gets further attacked. bald - you are correct, the hit to disposable income is reaching across virtually every group in the economy. This is unlike any recession the US has experienced since fantasy football was invented. 2009 will be tough and even 2010 could be tough.
On the competitive front, good news for the NFFC is that this will slow or extinguish the pace of growth in new contests - if you're not established yet, good luck trying to enter the market over the next 2 years.
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Continuing ...
I agree with Waz on the merits of the online contest being a 14-teamer.
I also think the standalone satellites will continue to slip going forward as we FF players have had a taste of the online championships for a slight bump in cost. The DC format is a different story - those are great as standalones - but I think the regular satellite lges will continue to be marginalized such that I would shift all online efforts to: 1) a 14-tm online championship, and 2) DC format leagues. Agree 100% KJ.
Forget the single satellites (maybe keep some 12 teamers) and roll with the online event. Most established 14 team players would buy 2 or 3 (or more), and this is a GREAT way to introduce newbies to the contest. The DC's are unique in themselves and should continue to thrive.
I personally would like to see more Auction DC's this year.
Continuing ...
I agree with Waz on the merits of the online contest being a 14-teamer.
I also think the standalone satellites will continue to slip going forward as we FF players have had a taste of the online championships for a slight bump in cost. The DC format is a different story - those are great as standalones - but I think the regular satellite lges will continue to be marginalized such that I would shift all online efforts to: 1) a 14-tm online championship, and 2) DC format leagues. Agree 100% KJ.
Forget the single satellites (maybe keep some 12 teamers) and roll with the online event. Most established 14 team players would buy 2 or 3 (or more), and this is a GREAT way to introduce newbies to the contest. The DC's are unique in themselves and should continue to thrive.
I personally would like to see more Auction DC's this year.