Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
I have to say that I like the 12 team format much better than the 14 team format. To be honest, with the economy as it is, if things do not improve I will "drop out" of the WCOFF and their "fees" for everything cost structure and only do the NBC Primetime if I could not afford both. However, I might have to do the reverse if the NBC Primetime drops to $700 with smaller league and overall prizes. For me, it is the customer service of Tom and Greg more than the 14-team format that keeps bringing me back to this event.
As for league prizes, I was fortunate enough in both baseball and football to win my leagues this season. In baseball I finished with a "free entry" for being 11th of 390 teams. It seemed the prize did not match the effort or accomplishment, but I was glad to get it none the less. In football, I finished the regular season as the top point scoring team and won another free entry. Cool beans, but I felt that payout could have been better as I beat out 252 teams over 13 weeks of the season. I got nothing for finihsing 12th overall in the playoffs.
I guess what I am saying here is that getting the $100K is great, but it only happens for one team. As such, I would prefer either higher league prizes or a better payoff for the remaining top 12 teams. Until you finish that high and get only a free entry to show for it (or nothing extra in football) you don't know how it feels. I did it twice this season and needed dream seasons to get even that in return.
Save the insurance money on the $1M bonus. Make it a new Malibu Hybrid or something else in the $20K range if you need a bonus prize. I don't see a huge reason for any kind of bonus.
The WCOFF is enticing people to buy 2 leagues with about a $450 discount if you buy 2 now. Maybe $1300 for each event or both for $2200 would be enough for many to do both. I would sign up for both at that price.
Pete Thanks for the feedback Pete. Your points are well taken. That being said, a few minutes before you made your post another good owner PM'ed me to say that we would be foolish to offer any grand prize under $100,000. It could be suicidal. And I understand that feeling as the grand prize is the carrot that eventually we all chase. If not, as Todd says, we'd all be doing satellite leagues where the 80% goes to the league prizes.
But something has to give if we all agree that next year could be tougher than this year and I'm trying to be realistic. I agree that our 12-team format does have good potential and reducing that entry fee makes it tougher to get a good return for those who just want to do that format. There's plenty to consider.
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36419
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
I have to say that I like the 12 team format much better than the 14 team format. To be honest, with the economy as it is, if things do not improve I will "drop out" of the WCOFF and their "fees" for everything cost structure and only do the NBC Primetime if I could not afford both. However, I might have to do the reverse if the NBC Primetime drops to $700 with smaller league and overall prizes. For me, it is the customer service of Tom and Greg more than the 14-team format that keeps bringing me back to this event.
As for league prizes, I was fortunate enough in both baseball and football to win my leagues this season. In baseball I finished with a "free entry" for being 11th of 390 teams. It seemed the prize did not match the effort or accomplishment, but I was glad to get it none the less. In football, I finished the regular season as the top point scoring team and won another free entry. Cool beans, but I felt that payout could have been better as I beat out 252 teams over 13 weeks of the season. I got nothing for finihsing 12th overall in the playoffs.
I guess what I am saying here is that getting the $100K is great, but it only happens for one team. As such, I would prefer either higher league prizes or a better payoff for the remaining top 12 teams. Until you finish that high and get only a free entry to show for it (or nothing extra in football) you don't know how it feels. I did it twice this season and needed dream seasons to get even that in return.
Save the insurance money on the $1M bonus. Make it a new Malibu Hybrid or something else in the $20K range if you need a bonus prize. I don't see a huge reason for any kind of bonus.
The WCOFF is enticing people to buy 2 leagues with about a $450 discount if you buy 2 now. Maybe $1300 for each event or both for $2200 would be enough for many to do both. I would sign up for both at that price.
Pete There are a lot of good points in this post. I have felt that it is important to give as many people a good taste in their mouth as possible to keep them coming back. I have regularly compared the NFFC to the major high stakes competitive bowling world that I come from. There are many similarities. The thing that fueled the "mega-buck" bowling events for a while was the massive first prize on top. Bowlers would pony up $1100 for a high stakes match play event where one guy would win $200,000. Over time bowlers started realizing only one guy took home the massive prize and 80-90% of the field lost money.
The events morphed and started providing all kinds of side ways to make money. In most bowling events you have a 1 in 4 ratio where one out of every 4 cash and get their money back. In the NFFC I am not sure what it is but have to believe it is hugely different. The key to these events (in bowling) was to have an alluring top prize mixed with a competition that allowed for as many people as possible to get a return on investment. I understand this is a challenge for Greg/Tom but is the thing that will determine how much growth and support the event gets over time.
I think some people can look at their NFFC experience.. and I bet many go back and review their draft.. and look at how hard it is to identify the RIGHT player in rounds 2, 3, 4 and beyond and then start thinking how hard it is to win their money back in the event. I am not an expert on how the NFFC generates money. I know from what Greg and Tom have outlined here I believe they have been pretty generous with payouts based on entries especially this year. I am not sure if the NFFC gets money from NBC or other sponsors that would/could contribute to the prize funds.
I am just saying that my main interest is always that this event grows and stays strong. If the setup is such that only a precious few make their money back it might hurt the product in the long run. I know I (like paul) had a season 2 years ago where I was the high scorer in my league but did not win h2h (before we changed the rules). I was the favorite to win the 100k going into the final day.. my team floundered and I finished 5th and got a free entry.
Overall I cashed for about $3500 and barely doubled my money. I was 5th out of a 375ish man field. Though that left a bad taste in my mouth I enjoy the event and competition so much I continue to come back. However I can see how others might sour on it. I think it is important to somehow keep the $100,000 but find ways to generate money toward the prize fun to make sure the lifeblood of the event (the fantasy players) get as much back as possible. This is why I wondered how much the NFFC would/could save having the NYC draft in a less expensive location than midtown Manhatten but in the same region (jersey or wherever). Convention center near Giants stadium, etc. I think the vast majority of fantasy guys care about the fantasy event and not about the glitz of NYC and would prefer the money saved be funneled back into the event.
Just throwing out ideas.
I have to say that I like the 12 team format much better than the 14 team format. To be honest, with the economy as it is, if things do not improve I will "drop out" of the WCOFF and their "fees" for everything cost structure and only do the NBC Primetime if I could not afford both. However, I might have to do the reverse if the NBC Primetime drops to $700 with smaller league and overall prizes. For me, it is the customer service of Tom and Greg more than the 14-team format that keeps bringing me back to this event.
As for league prizes, I was fortunate enough in both baseball and football to win my leagues this season. In baseball I finished with a "free entry" for being 11th of 390 teams. It seemed the prize did not match the effort or accomplishment, but I was glad to get it none the less. In football, I finished the regular season as the top point scoring team and won another free entry. Cool beans, but I felt that payout could have been better as I beat out 252 teams over 13 weeks of the season. I got nothing for finihsing 12th overall in the playoffs.
I guess what I am saying here is that getting the $100K is great, but it only happens for one team. As such, I would prefer either higher league prizes or a better payoff for the remaining top 12 teams. Until you finish that high and get only a free entry to show for it (or nothing extra in football) you don't know how it feels. I did it twice this season and needed dream seasons to get even that in return.
Save the insurance money on the $1M bonus. Make it a new Malibu Hybrid or something else in the $20K range if you need a bonus prize. I don't see a huge reason for any kind of bonus.
The WCOFF is enticing people to buy 2 leagues with about a $450 discount if you buy 2 now. Maybe $1300 for each event or both for $2200 would be enough for many to do both. I would sign up for both at that price.
Pete There are a lot of good points in this post. I have felt that it is important to give as many people a good taste in their mouth as possible to keep them coming back. I have regularly compared the NFFC to the major high stakes competitive bowling world that I come from. There are many similarities. The thing that fueled the "mega-buck" bowling events for a while was the massive first prize on top. Bowlers would pony up $1100 for a high stakes match play event where one guy would win $200,000. Over time bowlers started realizing only one guy took home the massive prize and 80-90% of the field lost money.
The events morphed and started providing all kinds of side ways to make money. In most bowling events you have a 1 in 4 ratio where one out of every 4 cash and get their money back. In the NFFC I am not sure what it is but have to believe it is hugely different. The key to these events (in bowling) was to have an alluring top prize mixed with a competition that allowed for as many people as possible to get a return on investment. I understand this is a challenge for Greg/Tom but is the thing that will determine how much growth and support the event gets over time.
I think some people can look at their NFFC experience.. and I bet many go back and review their draft.. and look at how hard it is to identify the RIGHT player in rounds 2, 3, 4 and beyond and then start thinking how hard it is to win their money back in the event. I am not an expert on how the NFFC generates money. I know from what Greg and Tom have outlined here I believe they have been pretty generous with payouts based on entries especially this year. I am not sure if the NFFC gets money from NBC or other sponsors that would/could contribute to the prize funds.
I am just saying that my main interest is always that this event grows and stays strong. If the setup is such that only a precious few make their money back it might hurt the product in the long run. I know I (like paul) had a season 2 years ago where I was the high scorer in my league but did not win h2h (before we changed the rules). I was the favorite to win the 100k going into the final day.. my team floundered and I finished 5th and got a free entry.
Overall I cashed for about $3500 and barely doubled my money. I was 5th out of a 375ish man field. Though that left a bad taste in my mouth I enjoy the event and competition so much I continue to come back. However I can see how others might sour on it. I think it is important to somehow keep the $100,000 but find ways to generate money toward the prize fun to make sure the lifeblood of the event (the fantasy players) get as much back as possible. This is why I wondered how much the NFFC would/could save having the NYC draft in a less expensive location than midtown Manhatten but in the same region (jersey or wherever). Convention center near Giants stadium, etc. I think the vast majority of fantasy guys care about the fantasy event and not about the glitz of NYC and would prefer the money saved be funneled back into the event.
Just throwing out ideas.
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Originally posted by TURBOUGH:
As you know, we need a playoff system. It expands the season for teams and people want there money's worth. I say take the top three teams at the end of week 13 and advance them to play for the big money but have a playoff system that runs through week 16 and if that means taking the top 6, then do it. People are paying too much money not to consider this. Yes! Absolutely! I will almost definately not play again in the NFFC Main or even the NFFC primetime without a playoff system. Taking the top teams into the NFFC Championship for 50,000 instead of 100,000 and distributing the money for league prizes is the way to go. The NFFC chamionship "chase" should be more about the trophy and title and a little less about a crapshoot payoff. Meanwhile the league prizes and payout structure should be expanded to allow more teams to be competitive longer, Having a six team playoff would make the investment more worthwhile. At least a few injuries at the beginning of the season could still be overcome and players could make a playoff push ala the NFL.
Please, please...install a 6 team playoff in each of the main event leagues!
As you know, we need a playoff system. It expands the season for teams and people want there money's worth. I say take the top three teams at the end of week 13 and advance them to play for the big money but have a playoff system that runs through week 16 and if that means taking the top 6, then do it. People are paying too much money not to consider this. Yes! Absolutely! I will almost definately not play again in the NFFC Main or even the NFFC primetime without a playoff system. Taking the top teams into the NFFC Championship for 50,000 instead of 100,000 and distributing the money for league prizes is the way to go. The NFFC chamionship "chase" should be more about the trophy and title and a little less about a crapshoot payoff. Meanwhile the league prizes and payout structure should be expanded to allow more teams to be competitive longer, Having a six team playoff would make the investment more worthwhile. At least a few injuries at the beginning of the season could still be overcome and players could make a playoff push ala the NFL.
Please, please...install a 6 team playoff in each of the main event leagues!
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Blue,
Now we walk the fine line between having a premier fantasy event that rewards the best of the best and turning it into your regular homeleague crap shoot. The "crap shoot" to me, happens when more people get into a playoff... especially if that playoff is H2H.
I would like to talk more about ways the NFFC can generate money that can be funneled into the prize funds.
Now we walk the fine line between having a premier fantasy event that rewards the best of the best and turning it into your regular homeleague crap shoot. The "crap shoot" to me, happens when more people get into a playoff... especially if that playoff is H2H.
I would like to talk more about ways the NFFC can generate money that can be funneled into the prize funds.
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Originally posted by Renman:
Blue,
Now we walk the fine line between having a premier fantasy event that rewards the best of the best and turning it into your regular homeleague crap shoot. The "crap shoot" to me, happens when more people get into a playoff... especially if that playoff is H2H.
I would like to talk more about ways the NFFC can generate money that can be funneled into the prize funds. How can you call it a crap shoot? That makes no sense. Right now its about who can avoid injuries and who can have a couple of high scoring weeks. Blue is right when he talks about injuries.
Blue,
Now we walk the fine line between having a premier fantasy event that rewards the best of the best and turning it into your regular homeleague crap shoot. The "crap shoot" to me, happens when more people get into a playoff... especially if that playoff is H2H.
I would like to talk more about ways the NFFC can generate money that can be funneled into the prize funds. How can you call it a crap shoot? That makes no sense. Right now its about who can avoid injuries and who can have a couple of high scoring weeks. Blue is right when he talks about injuries.
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Originally posted by Renman:
Blue,
Now we walk the fine line between having a premier fantasy event that rewards the best of the best and turning it into your regular homeleague crap shoot. The "crap shoot" to me, happens when more people get into a playoff... especially if that playoff is H2H.
I would like to talk more about ways the NFFC can generate money that can be funneled into the prize funds.
Blue,
Now we walk the fine line between having a premier fantasy event that rewards the best of the best and turning it into your regular homeleague crap shoot. The "crap shoot" to me, happens when more people get into a playoff... especially if that playoff is H2H.
I would like to talk more about ways the NFFC can generate money that can be funneled into the prize funds.
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Originally posted by TURBOUGH:
quote:Originally posted by Renman:
Blue,
Now we walk the fine line between having a premier fantasy event that rewards the best of the best and turning it into your regular homeleague crap shoot. The "crap shoot" to me, happens when more people get into a playoff... especially if that playoff is H2H.
I would like to talk more about ways the NFFC can generate money that can be funneled into the prize funds. How can you call it a crap shoot? That makes no sense. Right now its about who can avoid injuries and who can have a couple of high scoring weeks. Blue is right when he talks about injuries. [/QUOTE]Renman,
My position is that the "chase" format for deciding the champion is fine and should stay in place. But, it is too heavily weighted to justify playing in a league for so little return on the off chance that your team will have three good weeks at the end of the season. Plus not all leagues are equal, this impacts who gets in. So, I am saying, keep it, but reduce the money awarded to it.
Of course, a league playoff can become a crapshoot as well. And that is why the "chase" format would be uneffected (except for the addition of 3rd place teams and the reduced 1st place prize).
Are you really saying that you would not play for a 50K prize? If you have a good "chase", odds are that you will also be winning your league championship as well. This would narrow the winnings gap even more.
So, I just wanted to take the opportunity to state my position again and hope that I can persuade you to at least to consider it. I like playing in the NFFC main events. But, without a playoff, I am afraid I will be among those who will be "saving" some money next year. Greg would really need to hear from a lot of us to implement this change and those that oppose changes always have the inside track. So, a trip to Vegas is on the line for me in this debate...Comm'on man, be a Bro and give the idea a chance! LOL!
Take care and have a great New Year!
quote:Originally posted by Renman:
Blue,
Now we walk the fine line between having a premier fantasy event that rewards the best of the best and turning it into your regular homeleague crap shoot. The "crap shoot" to me, happens when more people get into a playoff... especially if that playoff is H2H.
I would like to talk more about ways the NFFC can generate money that can be funneled into the prize funds. How can you call it a crap shoot? That makes no sense. Right now its about who can avoid injuries and who can have a couple of high scoring weeks. Blue is right when he talks about injuries. [/QUOTE]Renman,
My position is that the "chase" format for deciding the champion is fine and should stay in place. But, it is too heavily weighted to justify playing in a league for so little return on the off chance that your team will have three good weeks at the end of the season. Plus not all leagues are equal, this impacts who gets in. So, I am saying, keep it, but reduce the money awarded to it.
Of course, a league playoff can become a crapshoot as well. And that is why the "chase" format would be uneffected (except for the addition of 3rd place teams and the reduced 1st place prize).
Are you really saying that you would not play for a 50K prize? If you have a good "chase", odds are that you will also be winning your league championship as well. This would narrow the winnings gap even more.
So, I just wanted to take the opportunity to state my position again and hope that I can persuade you to at least to consider it. I like playing in the NFFC main events. But, without a playoff, I am afraid I will be among those who will be "saving" some money next year. Greg would really need to hear from a lot of us to implement this change and those that oppose changes always have the inside track. So, a trip to Vegas is on the line for me in this debate...Comm'on man, be a Bro and give the idea a chance! LOL!
Take care and have a great New Year!
-
Jersey Dawg
- Posts: 816
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:00 pm
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
The league championship structure is perfect to me. After 13 LONG weeks, I like the idea of the team with the most points and the team with the best record securing good prize money and possibly playing for more if high points does not have best record. Expanding to 6 teams fighting for first after 13 weeks makes no sense and waters down the meaning of the regular season. This is not a hockey league.
Pete
Pete
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
The league championship structure is perfect to me. After 13 LONG weeks, I like the idea of the team with the most points and the team with the best record securing good prize money and possibly playing for more if high points does not have best record. Expanding to 6 teams fighting for first after 13 weeks makes no sense and waters down the meaning of the regular season. This is not a hockey league.
Pete The "chase" would remain uneffected (lets put the prize amount change on hold for the sake of argument).
The playoff would take place within the individual leagues.
The league championship structure is perfect to me. After 13 LONG weeks, I like the idea of the team with the most points and the team with the best record securing good prize money and possibly playing for more if high points does not have best record. Expanding to 6 teams fighting for first after 13 weeks makes no sense and waters down the meaning of the regular season. This is not a hockey league.
Pete The "chase" would remain uneffected (lets put the prize amount change on hold for the sake of argument).
The playoff would take place within the individual leagues.
NFFC Plans For 2009: Provide Some Feedback
Greg and Tom,
I've played Fantasy my whole life and this was my first year in this event the 12 team and next year im debating on joining both I like the fee to enter and the prize structure I dont see any needs of changing anything if anything changes major im going to be disappoined thanks again go dolphins wooooooo
I've played Fantasy my whole life and this was my first year in this event the 12 team and next year im debating on joining both I like the fee to enter and the prize structure I dont see any needs of changing anything if anything changes major im going to be disappoined thanks again go dolphins wooooooo