I absolutely hate the idea of 6 of 12 teams making playoffs. Leave that for the home leagues (where I also hated it). Even having a playoff round 1 bye doesn't lessen the sting of having dominated your league for 13 weeks, only to have one bad week in the playoffs and be out of it, often losing to a much worse team.
I've already suggested this in past threads but will again here: consider creating a NEW NFFC league that is run just like WCOFF was (well, minus the lack of payouts ). But please don't ever change the current NFFC playoff format.
Playoff System Protest
Playoff System Protest
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Heck, Tom and I are both active on this thread and listening to the ideas. Jodicus is throwing out a new idea, one that honestly could be better than the one WCOFF had before. If you really are going to have h2h playoffs, doesn't it make more sense to still have a 13-week regular season and league playoffs after that rather than an 11-week regular season? I'm seeing some sense in his offering now compared to the other h2h playoff format.
[/QB]Thanks Greg and Tom for giving this some consideration! I would like to reemphasize that I am not suggesting abandoning the high-stakes point chase aspect of the contest. It is great and keeping the number of qualifiers to the chase at a reasonable number is what makes it work. I just don't think a playoff system has to disrupt the current system. If done right, it could be the best of both worlds! Top teams competing in a chase for the National Title (High-Stakes) while the top teams AND select other qualifiers (4 others) are competing for a league title (Low-Stakes). More fun AND more competition AND (hopefully) more money as those afraid of the long odds in the chase format see a separate avenue for more value (at least 14-weeks and in contention longer) and better late-season odds of making a playoff run and winning a modest league title prize.
Finally, please consider league trophies if you do not already give them out. These are great advertising opportunities. I have a lot of friends (OK, not a lot...LOL) who come over and see my CMFFL trophies (I have 7 of them) and ask where I got them. We end up talking fantasy football and they want to win one themselves. Unfortunately, we play in a highly competitive albeit low-stakes private league with no openings unless someone dies. But, a NFFC league trophy...now that, they could sign up and go for! I know that you have one big trophy, but do you award lesser ones to each league or are the individual leagues just about the money? Obviously, I have never one a NFFC league......yet!
Heck, Tom and I are both active on this thread and listening to the ideas. Jodicus is throwing out a new idea, one that honestly could be better than the one WCOFF had before. If you really are going to have h2h playoffs, doesn't it make more sense to still have a 13-week regular season and league playoffs after that rather than an 11-week regular season? I'm seeing some sense in his offering now compared to the other h2h playoff format.
[/QB]Thanks Greg and Tom for giving this some consideration! I would like to reemphasize that I am not suggesting abandoning the high-stakes point chase aspect of the contest. It is great and keeping the number of qualifiers to the chase at a reasonable number is what makes it work. I just don't think a playoff system has to disrupt the current system. If done right, it could be the best of both worlds! Top teams competing in a chase for the National Title (High-Stakes) while the top teams AND select other qualifiers (4 others) are competing for a league title (Low-Stakes). More fun AND more competition AND (hopefully) more money as those afraid of the long odds in the chase format see a separate avenue for more value (at least 14-weeks and in contention longer) and better late-season odds of making a playoff run and winning a modest league title prize.
Finally, please consider league trophies if you do not already give them out. These are great advertising opportunities. I have a lot of friends (OK, not a lot...LOL) who come over and see my CMFFL trophies (I have 7 of them) and ask where I got them. We end up talking fantasy football and they want to win one themselves. Unfortunately, we play in a highly competitive albeit low-stakes private league with no openings unless someone dies. But, a NFFC league trophy...now that, they could sign up and go for! I know that you have one big trophy, but do you award lesser ones to each league or are the individual leagues just about the money? Obviously, I have never one a NFFC league......yet!
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thegambler
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:00 pm
Playoff System Protest
Originally posted by felixflamingo:
Yeah but since they don't want to change why is that insulting to you? Not every post giving you feedback is a personal insult but you seem to take it is such.
Tom and Greg have to satisfy 300 Classic Owners and 500+ other owners in the various satellites and other contests. They have a format that does that as best it can.
You can't suggest a brand new format that suits you and not expect some, most or all of the other 800 owners to at least respond can you? dude, did you miss the post where i said i would be back whether they had a playoff or not? i never said i was even thinking of leaving until the shots started.
having a regular discussion is great and sometimes leads to good things but sometimes they take a turn for the other and it goes down hill, which it has for me. i still want to play here next year but i will definitely take a look around before i do.
and greg, the wcoff comment had nothing to do with you or the way the nffc is ran it had to do with the "vets" taking shots at people for having an opinion. like i said discussiong something is one thing but when it turns to what this thread is turning into its another.
Yeah but since they don't want to change why is that insulting to you? Not every post giving you feedback is a personal insult but you seem to take it is such.
Tom and Greg have to satisfy 300 Classic Owners and 500+ other owners in the various satellites and other contests. They have a format that does that as best it can.
You can't suggest a brand new format that suits you and not expect some, most or all of the other 800 owners to at least respond can you? dude, did you miss the post where i said i would be back whether they had a playoff or not? i never said i was even thinking of leaving until the shots started.
having a regular discussion is great and sometimes leads to good things but sometimes they take a turn for the other and it goes down hill, which it has for me. i still want to play here next year but i will definitely take a look around before i do.
and greg, the wcoff comment had nothing to do with you or the way the nffc is ran it had to do with the "vets" taking shots at people for having an opinion. like i said discussiong something is one thing but when it turns to what this thread is turning into its another.
Playoff System Protest
Originally posted by Sandman62:
But please don't ever change the current NFFC playoff format. [/QB]Sandman62,
I agree. Keep the points chase and limit the number who get into it. That is the NFFC format and it works. You could even keep the top two Points Chase qualifiers at the same prize level. But, a league playoff format could be taking place at the same time. And the winner of the league could get the third place prize. Look at it this way, you now have a shot at the 1st place money AND the currently allocated 3rd place money in your league. PLUS, you are still one of the few teams that have qualified for the NFFC National Championship after week 13!
I just don't see who loses with this option. You get to keep what you want and the very top team can even win a little "tax-offset" money...and I get a playoff system. What say you? Can it work?
But please don't ever change the current NFFC playoff format. [/QB]Sandman62,
I agree. Keep the points chase and limit the number who get into it. That is the NFFC format and it works. You could even keep the top two Points Chase qualifiers at the same prize level. But, a league playoff format could be taking place at the same time. And the winner of the league could get the third place prize. Look at it this way, you now have a shot at the 1st place money AND the currently allocated 3rd place money in your league. PLUS, you are still one of the few teams that have qualified for the NFFC National Championship after week 13!
I just don't see who loses with this option. You get to keep what you want and the very top team can even win a little "tax-offset" money...and I get a playoff system. What say you? Can it work?
Playoff System Protest
Who loses are the players who come in 1st or 2nd (12-team leagues), but would then get less money because some of it was allocated to a playoff system so that some 7-6 4th place team has a chance to win some money. No thanks!
Playoff System Protest
Originally posted by Sandman62:
Who loses are the players who come in 1st or 2nd (12-team leagues), but would then get less money because some of it was allocated to a playoff system so that some 7-6 4th place team has a chance to win some money. No thanks! Under my proposal, no money is reduced. You still get the same amount for qualifying for the chase after week 13. The diverted money comes from the third place award that would be up for grabs among the top six teams in that league. Understand what I am saying? I am not asking you to agree (although I am hoping that you are willing to consider it), I just want to make sure that you understand that my proposal is committed to the integrity of the current 1st and 2nd place qualifier system.
Now...if you want to say that you don't want to lose your hard earned (8-5) third place money to some crappy (7-6) fifth place team....well then, I don't know what to say...you must really hate the playoffs. Perhaps you are an old Buffalo Bills fan!
Cheers!
Who loses are the players who come in 1st or 2nd (12-team leagues), but would then get less money because some of it was allocated to a playoff system so that some 7-6 4th place team has a chance to win some money. No thanks! Under my proposal, no money is reduced. You still get the same amount for qualifying for the chase after week 13. The diverted money comes from the third place award that would be up for grabs among the top six teams in that league. Understand what I am saying? I am not asking you to agree (although I am hoping that you are willing to consider it), I just want to make sure that you understand that my proposal is committed to the integrity of the current 1st and 2nd place qualifier system.
Now...if you want to say that you don't want to lose your hard earned (8-5) third place money to some crappy (7-6) fifth place team....well then, I don't know what to say...you must really hate the playoffs. Perhaps you are an old Buffalo Bills fan!
Cheers!
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36410
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Playoff System Protest
Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by felixflamingo:
[qb] and greg, the wcoff comment had nothing to do with you or the way the nffc is ran it had to do with the "vets" taking shots at people for having an opinion. like i said discussiong something is one thing but when it turns to what this thread is turning into its another. [/QUOTE]I don't see the discussion turning into something negative. There have been good points made, just not the ones you wanted to hear!!
Honestly, this is a civil discussion. But you have to admit that changing how league winners get paid is a seismic shift and of course the discussion could get heated. This contest is 8 years old, so it's not like we're just changing everything because WCOFF members are now looking around. I trust those guys are savvy enough to know what works best and what doesn't work best. Heck, I would hope some of them would have an open mind and realize that 13 weeks is better than 11 and paying the BEST TEAMS the most money is always the best way to go.
Now, can we have a civil discussion about that without ruffling some feathers? Sure, and I think it's happening here. So far I see a good discussion on the matter. In fact, Blue Foot needs you!!! Don't abandon him now.
quote:Originally posted by felixflamingo:
[qb] and greg, the wcoff comment had nothing to do with you or the way the nffc is ran it had to do with the "vets" taking shots at people for having an opinion. like i said discussiong something is one thing but when it turns to what this thread is turning into its another. [/QUOTE]I don't see the discussion turning into something negative. There have been good points made, just not the ones you wanted to hear!!
Honestly, this is a civil discussion. But you have to admit that changing how league winners get paid is a seismic shift and of course the discussion could get heated. This contest is 8 years old, so it's not like we're just changing everything because WCOFF members are now looking around. I trust those guys are savvy enough to know what works best and what doesn't work best. Heck, I would hope some of them would have an open mind and realize that 13 weeks is better than 11 and paying the BEST TEAMS the most money is always the best way to go.Now, can we have a civil discussion about that without ruffling some feathers? Sure, and I think it's happening here. So far I see a good discussion on the matter. In fact, Blue Foot needs you!!! Don't abandon him now.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36410
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Playoff System Protest
Andy, one other point I'd like to make about the Primetime is that you can have most total points and best h2h record after 13 weeks and win both prizes for a total of $5,200. You don't need an extra round of playoffs to determine your team was the best in the league; you already proved that during 13 weeks of league action. Why is a playoff needed when 1 team has dominated the league in all facets?
In the past, around 60 percent of all NFFC leagues will be decided after Week 13 this way. One team dominated all year and gets the $5,200. Roughly 40 percent of leagues will have one team with best h2h record and one team with most total points. That's when we have the Week 14-16 league playoff for the remaining prize money.
I'm not sure how the WCOFF did it, but I'm not sure if other contests reward teams that win both h2h and total points in their league. I'm not sure why they wouldn't, but I don't think everyone does it this way. Again, our goal is to reward THE BEST TEAMS in each league and I'm just not convinced that a league playoff is needed when the best team in 60% of the leagues was determined after 13 weeks.
In the past, around 60 percent of all NFFC leagues will be decided after Week 13 this way. One team dominated all year and gets the $5,200. Roughly 40 percent of leagues will have one team with best h2h record and one team with most total points. That's when we have the Week 14-16 league playoff for the remaining prize money.
I'm not sure how the WCOFF did it, but I'm not sure if other contests reward teams that win both h2h and total points in their league. I'm not sure why they wouldn't, but I don't think everyone does it this way. Again, our goal is to reward THE BEST TEAMS in each league and I'm just not convinced that a league playoff is needed when the best team in 60% of the leagues was determined after 13 weeks.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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thegambler
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:00 pm
Playoff System Protest
just for you greg i will continue with the debate 
and grow some thincker skin.
i have never played in a league where they didn't have a playoff till this year and to be very honest, if the wcoff was still around i wouldn't be here right now.
most people dont' like change and it is pretty clear to see that the players here don't like change.
and grow some thincker skin.i have never played in a league where they didn't have a playoff till this year and to be very honest, if the wcoff was still around i wouldn't be here right now.
most people dont' like change and it is pretty clear to see that the players here don't like change.
Playoff System Protest
Greg,
So, if 13 is better than 11, is 14 better than 13?
14 would be the number of league games that my proposal could guarantee each participant.
The 13-week format would remain in tact.
The 3-week NFFC points race for the national title would remain unchanged.
6-team league playoffs would be for what is currently the 3rd place prize. A small amount of this prize could be allocated for a trophy. Perhaps a small prize could also be siphoned off for the consolation playoff bracket. But, I am getting too in the weeds regarding the money...your lane, not mine.
What do you think, Greg? Could a league playoff system for a modest prize that does not effect the points chase be good for the NFFC Prime Time? In marketing? In the spirit of competition?
Throw me a bone, Greg! I'm jazzed about this possibility!
So, if 13 is better than 11, is 14 better than 13?
14 would be the number of league games that my proposal could guarantee each participant.
The 13-week format would remain in tact.
The 3-week NFFC points race for the national title would remain unchanged.
6-team league playoffs would be for what is currently the 3rd place prize. A small amount of this prize could be allocated for a trophy. Perhaps a small prize could also be siphoned off for the consolation playoff bracket. But, I am getting too in the weeds regarding the money...your lane, not mine.
What do you think, Greg? Could a league playoff system for a modest prize that does not effect the points chase be good for the NFFC Prime Time? In marketing? In the spirit of competition?
Throw me a bone, Greg! I'm jazzed about this possibility!