Is it time for PPR across the board?

botherk · Post by **botherk** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:47 am

First, Greg, read my P.M.

Second, rule changes shouldn't have to be enacted when we see a changing of the guard at a position. Running backs have been running the show in FF for a long time. Lets see where this takes us without the rules change.
Next year, coaches may start to decide that RBBC isn't all they thought it would be and go back to the one (best) back approach.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:49 am

Originally posted by Just Russ:
quote:Originally posted by jimchristie:
Why would you make a rule that would put 1 position that much more dominant over another? Pretty stupid... That's why I'm advocating 1.5PPR for TEs!

Plus, I think some would argue that with more RBBCs, the rules as they are will make the WR the dominant position for years to come. [/QUOTE]I enjoy the debate over rules changes and trust me they come up every year after the draft.

As for 1.5 points per TE catch Russ, I think the beauty of the different contests is that they do offer different scoring systems and reasons for it. I thoroughly thought out when I created the NFFC rules why I thought running backs deserved only 0.5 points per reception as I felt the RBs were already heavily valued in fantasy football's scoring system. PPR was a great addition, but I chose to tweak it so that RBs didn't become even MORE valuable.

As for making tight ends more valuable, some folks like that and some contests offer that. Personally, I don't see the need for it. With the current scoring system, you have tough decisions on TEs the way it is. Tight ends will continue to have increased value going forward, with or without the extra half point.

This was the most balanced draft I can ever remember as far as where folks felt the value was at in the draft and the most balanced as far as WRs, RBs and the other positions going early. Something worked pretty good to give EVERYONE a fair shot at the grand prizes. None of the rules changes were "knee jerk" reactions and in fact over time we've proven that our "niche ideas" that some folks would make us so far out of the mainstream that nobody would understand our game are now being adapted in home leagues. Several of our facilitators out here in Las Vegas said their home leagues now use KDS/3RR and they love it.

Keep the debate going and everyone knows I'm not afraid to make rules changes to make the contests better. But to change the scoring just because we didn't have 12 RBs going in the first round is crazy. Remember, while everyone believes this is the Year of the WR, by season's end it could be anything. Maybe it's the Year of the QB and soon you'll be asking me to change passing TDs to 3 points because QBs are now too valuable.

Sheesh.

Gotta run. Thanks to everyone who did such a great job this weekend in all three cities and online. You're all the best and I think I can finally sit back and enjoy the season ahead. It's been a looooooooooooooooooooong final month, but I see the finish line ahead.

Be good.

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:53 am

I think the RBBC approach has a lot to do with necessity due to injuries. I could be very wrong, but I just don't see it going away.

And, IMO, RBs have dominated the fantasy landscape due to scoring rules/lineup rules.

We see that in other leagues where it's 2QB or 2RB/2WR. In those leagues the QB and RB are still king.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:56 am

Originally posted by Just Russ:
Greg, I know you typically reply to those posts that support your thinking and that fine as you are the boss. I think it continues to limit the discussion however. They say the best managers are the ones who surround themselves with people who have differing opinions and aren't afraid to voice them.

While an argument that it would inflate a Reggie Bush, for instance, it would also inflate a RB3 in a RBBC to someone you can actually use.

If the trend towards specialized RBs continues, we are going to see drafts where it's 70% WRs or more.

0.5PPR devalues most RBs in a RBBC as it makes:

the "starter" a guy who runs between the 20s devalued

the short yardage/GL back who only gets a few carries a game and is devalued

or the 3rd down/pass catching back who gets 3 carries for 12 yards and 5 catches for 45 yards and ends up with 9.2 points and is also devalued.

If you MUST keep 0.5PPR then I feel like you have to add a RB position and go 11 starters. This is the only way to add value to the position.

signed...the voice of unreason

Hah, I don't think anyone has ever stopped postingn their opinions because The Boss has jumped in to state why his rules are what they are. And if I supported every rule change -- like now adding 11 players -- we'd never have a contest anyone could recognize from year to year. Again, 0.5 points per reception for RBs wasn't just an idea I used to be different than WCOFF in 2004. I thought it through and at the time RBs were already more valuable than anyone else. I didn't see how the current rules made picks 11 and 12 as fair as 1 and 2 and continually tried to make that happen. Today I think we've done that.

And Glenn is completely right. Those at the top of the draft got off to incredible starts, although they need to find new stud WRs. And that happens every year. So let the games begin and let the rules suggestions continue. We have months and months to discuss the merits of changing RB scoring to what every other single contest does. So carry on with it. I'll jump in from time to time even if I am The Boss!!

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:56 am

I went RB-RB by the way.

With pick 9.

John

[ September 07, 2009, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Raiders ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:59 am

Originally posted by Raiders:
I went RB-RB by the way.

With pick 9.

John I knew there was a reason why I trusted your opinions.....

Zig when they zag.....here's to hoping someone who went RB/RB wins this year so the argument can change next year to making running back receptions 1/4PPR to resolve the imbalance.

Glenn

botherk · Post by **botherk** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:01 am

Originally posted by Just Russ:
I think the RBBC approach has a lot to do with necessity due to injuries. I could be very wrong, but I just don't see it going away.

And, IMO, RBs have dominated the fantasy landscape due to scoring rules/lineup rules.

We see that in other leagues where it's 2QB or 2RB/2WR. In those leagues the QB and RB are still king. So by giving rb's a full point, you would also like them to dominate here?
WR's are the soup d' jour, for sure, but isn't it a little soon to be giving rb's an extra half point per catch?

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:08 am

Greg, I understand your reasoning. And I'm not making my argument based on how this draft went. I'm basing it on an overall strategy and position equality.

We brag about the strategy involved in the 14 team event. I feel like this strategy will be greatly reduced when WRs and QBs dominate the first 2 rounds. If the trend continues, it will make the WRs/QBs and possibly TE more valuable than all but a few RBs.

I know that other events offer other scoring. I'm not trying to make this event like any other just for scoring reasons. I do think it makes sense to try to understand why other events do what they do, however!

Many of your current customers are playing in other and more recent events. Maybe they're doing this because they see even more strategy involved in those events? Maybe they like the other events scoring better? Maybe some of the money that is going to other events would stay here if some of their ideas were put to use?

I don't know. Noone does. I just think it would be in the best interest of this event to poll its participants with stuff like this to get a full understanding. Twenty people giving fedback on this board doesn't is too small of a sample size IMO.

Thanks for listening.

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:11 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:
quote:Originally posted by Just Russ:
I think the RBBC approach has a lot to do with necessity due to injuries. I could be very wrong, but I just don't see it going away.

And, IMO, RBs have dominated the fantasy landscape due to scoring rules/lineup rules.

We see that in other leagues where it's 2QB or 2RB/2WR. In those leagues the QB and RB are still king. So by giving rb's a full point, you would also like them to dominate here?
WR's are the soup d' jour, for sure, but isn't it a little soon to be giving rb's an extra half point per catch? [/QUOTE]I don't feel like giving 1PPR would alloe them to dominate here. I feel like it would make the 2 or 3 parts of a RBBC worth starting and competitive.

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:19 am

QUOTE]Hah, I don't think anyone has ever stopped postingn their opinions because The Boss has jumped in to state why his rules are what they are. [/QB][/quote]

How do you know this for sure? If I wasn't so hard headed, I would just stop posting on this as I know how you feel.

I'd be willing to bet others who rarely or never post do so because they feel it is a lost cause. They can read and see how it is and how it's going to be. And, it goes beyond just this discussion.

Maybe they still play here, maybe they don't.

$0.02