Having input in draft slot selection

Route Collectors · Post by **Route Collectors** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:30 pm

Thanks for all the examples, but it still doesn't completely answer my question. Sure there are always gonna be ways around a seemingly airtight boundary. I'm sure they had many pow wows before building Alcatraz as well.

Aren't those who gravitate toward collusion going to do so no matter what?

Again, I was looking for an example that couldn't already happen. We knew our draft position about 5-6 days before the actual draft happened.

I'll bet the combined brain power on this thread could figure out a way to form the same collusion next year. Think it can't happen?

Actually NNOY - GG's idea didn't bring up the thought of collusion. I believe that thought originated with your initial post. Just setting the facts straight.

Finally - I'd hate to think of how dismal life would be if we refused to try something new everytime there was a possibility of someone getting hurt. (Thank you Wright Bros.)

I think the opposing views have some credibility, but I also think the concerns could be ironed out in time. Next year is a long time away.

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:32 pm

Special screen, brilliant.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:34 pm

Originally posted by UFS:
Only what slot??..... you might have the ticket there. Not bad for a high school education. The Ivy league grads must have been asleep at the wheel.

Originally posted by UFS:
I have to give you credit. I get new ideas all the time presented to me. You have not done what 99% of others do. You kept looking for the solution instead taking it personally when given an opposing view. You have to weigh the pros and cons on any suggestion. What's worth doing, is worth doing right. Since you have experience running leagues and seem to be the devil's advocate on this....in your opinion, will doing the blind bidding process before you know what league you are in remove the perception of collusion? interested in your thoughts. obviously this seems like a popular idea. even if your data suggests that draft slots are created equal, why not give the consumer the choice?

Route Collectors · Post by **Route Collectors** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:45 pm

One last point, then I must leave this thread to the more brilliant minds.

Which league was it that Culpepper dropped to 26th or so?

I'll take my chances on collusion if someone can devise a plan that eliminates stupidity!!!!!!!

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:49 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by UFS:
Only what slot??..... you might have the ticket there. Not bad for a high school education. The Ivy league grads must have been asleep at the wheel.

Originally posted by UFS:
I have to give you credit. I get new ideas all the time presented to me. You have not done what 99% of others do. You kept looking for the solution instead taking it personally when given an opposing view. You have to weigh the pros and cons on any suggestion. What's worth doing, is worth doing right. Since you have experience running leagues and seem to be the devil's advocate on this....in your opinion, will doing the blind bidding process before you know what league you are in remove the perception of collusion? interested in your thoughts. obviously this seems like a popular idea. even if your data suggests that draft slots are created equal, why not give the consumer the choice? [/QUOTE]Ivy leagues and doing well at fantasy football is an oxymoron.

I actually like the idea knowing what I know. Each draft slot is different. There is a best strategy for each slot. I've seen them used over and over again by owners in my service.

About 5 years ago, 7-8 1st rounders went down. Look at this year already. Anyone wasting their FAAB on a draft slot is foolish IMO. More power to them.

Look at #8 this year. 4 in the top 30. In LV drafts, this was the only spot I thought did very well in every draft. I'm not surprised at all to see this one up there. These owners generally have to take the best player available no matter what. There's really no room for error, like at the ends, when you can have a better shot at guessing who might fall back to you next round.

I'm not against the blind bid, but the next question is, how exactly do you admin it? How do you break ties.

off the top of my head, you would have to get blind bids, then randomly draw leagues, then open up the bids. Can it work anyway else?

lichtman · Post by **lichtman** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:58 pm

I would be interested in seeing someone do a mock draft where the 1,2 & 3 spots collude. Given the variance that I saw from draft to draft in NY, I doubt that anyone would notice any difference.

Looking at the drafts for all of the NFFC leagues, the following players were picked in the #3 spot and the #1 spot on the way back in the 2nd round:

1. Chad Johnson 1. Hines Ward
2. Thomas Jones 2. Hines Ward
3. Q Griffin 3. Thomas Jones
4. T. Henry 4. Hines Ward
5. Culpepper 5. Curt Martin
6. Curtis Martin 6. Lee Suggs
7. Chris Brown 7. Duce Staley
8. Duce Staley 8. T. Owens
9. Stephen Davis 9. Q Griffin
10. McNabb 10. D. Staley
11. Lee Suggs 11. Hines Ward
12. Culpepper 12. D. Mason
13. K. Jones 13. Torry Holt
14. Chris Brown 14. Hines Ward
15. Matt Hasselbeck 15. Curt Martin
16. Chad Johnson 16. Steph Davis

Given that there are a few names that appear a few times on both lists, I think it is fair to say that getting a 26th pick player with the 28th pick is hardly a guarantee of any consistent advantage. And as we go deeper into the draft, those picks would be nearly impossible to distinguish.

So, given that you would have to potentially approach two random people with you shady idea, and given that you would really have to communicate during the draft in order to maximize any perceived advantage, I don't really think this is even conceivable.

Also, given the randomness of who is in your league, I don't think the gekko concept increases the likelihood of this happening -- I think it is equally possible (and equally unlikely) in the current format.

I still don't think it is a great idea, though. Maybe if you did it with real dollars instead of FAAB dollars and added the money into the pot..........

skipman · Post by **skipman** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:01 pm

Two points,

1. Indy, It was my team that picked up Culpepper from the #3 slot.

2. NNoy, I would expect that a larger cranium like yours would be able to look at a map and figure out that West Virginia may be closer to Central Indiana than Odenton. I would also expect you to realize that central Indiana is not an improvement over West Virginia.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:02 pm

Originally posted by UFS:
I'm not against the blind bid, but the next question is, how exactly do you admin it? How do you break ties.

off the top of my head, you would have to get blind bids, then randomly draw leagues, then open up the bids. Can it work anyway else? why can't KP draw leagues ahead of time...just don't publish it. Owners would then log into STATS (not knowing what leagues they are in) and make their bids.

ties would have to be broken randomly. not sure how many ties there would be.

the blind bidding process does place a little more work on the part of KP and STATS, but it could well be worth it. think about the marketing...first high stakes event to let each owner have some input in their draft selection. innovative event...setting the trend for other events to follow. Adds a layer of strategy and excitement to the game that has not been there before. people like me who use crappy draft position as a crutch won't be able to use that excuse anymore.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:04 pm

Originally posted by I Cojones:
I still don't think it is a great idea, though. tell me why. i'll convince you.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:08 pm

Originally posted by UFS:
Again, it's the perception that matters most to the game operator. didn't an owner draft buckhalter and shipp? doesn't that impact the integrity of the event (much like collusion does)? do you think that other owners in that league just got an advantage over the rest of us in the overall scheme? a small advantage, but still an advantage.

[ September 28, 2004, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]