Dyv-
good to see your aroused again!
reflections of a 1st year player in NFFC
-
CC's Desperados
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reflections of a 1st year player in NFFC
Dyv,
First, passer rating is a major stat that is often used to judge the success of a QB. It is one of the options available to use in fantasy scoring in the 2 leagues I run. The WR catches from the back-up QB is not a stat that is kept track of and is not offered as a option for fantasy scoring. I am justing expressing surprise that you are comparing the statistcial relevance of these two stats.
A D that gives up 40 points and wins is more impressive than a D that gives up 18 and loses? Not sure I agree with that but you make an interesting point. To support your idea maybe there could be a 2 point bonus for the D of the team that wins the game.
In my leagues we do not count the points against the D if a team scores a TD on a turnover by the offense (an option available in the league set-up) We did not think it made sense to count points against the D and special team when they were not even on the field. As I wrote that I just started to wonder if you are going to accuse me of being analytically riduculous and too anal to go to the trouble to set up a league where points given up by the offense do not count against the D.
I never said anything to you that was even close to a personal attack. I just said our views were different.
Look, I am ok with someone reading my post and disagreeing and I am glad you took the time to respond. I am surprised at how strongly you are against my minor suggestions and your comment about analytic ridiculousness and the "stop being so anal comment" were much too personal.
I agree with you about needing to find the right balance in the number of stats you use for scoring. As you said in your first post, my suggestions were minor. As an example, this year I added 1/2 point for a forced fumble for the D. Doing that does not create any more work for the league owners. Just gives a small reward for a D that is good at forcing fumbles. I thought it was a very important stat that was worthy of being included in our scoring.
You may have mis-spoke in your last paragraph. The week 2 scenario was not ugly for everyone. Probably only 5 to 10 percent of the owners had to take a 0 becuase of the game being canceled. So, probably over 90 percent of the owners benefited from what happened.
I want to finish by clarifying what is the main thing on my mind right now. My original point when I began this thread was the following: I have really enjoyed my first year here and was was impressed with many of the rules that were big improvements over the 2 leagues I run and other leagues I have been part of in the past. I mentioned 3 rules that I have enjoyed in other leagues that we do not use here. I am surprised at how strong your views are against by suggestions.
But, no problem! Espressing our views is what the message boards are for.
Bill Carson
First, passer rating is a major stat that is often used to judge the success of a QB. It is one of the options available to use in fantasy scoring in the 2 leagues I run. The WR catches from the back-up QB is not a stat that is kept track of and is not offered as a option for fantasy scoring. I am justing expressing surprise that you are comparing the statistcial relevance of these two stats.
A D that gives up 40 points and wins is more impressive than a D that gives up 18 and loses? Not sure I agree with that but you make an interesting point. To support your idea maybe there could be a 2 point bonus for the D of the team that wins the game.
In my leagues we do not count the points against the D if a team scores a TD on a turnover by the offense (an option available in the league set-up) We did not think it made sense to count points against the D and special team when they were not even on the field. As I wrote that I just started to wonder if you are going to accuse me of being analytically riduculous and too anal to go to the trouble to set up a league where points given up by the offense do not count against the D.
I never said anything to you that was even close to a personal attack. I just said our views were different.
Look, I am ok with someone reading my post and disagreeing and I am glad you took the time to respond. I am surprised at how strongly you are against my minor suggestions and your comment about analytic ridiculousness and the "stop being so anal comment" were much too personal.
I agree with you about needing to find the right balance in the number of stats you use for scoring. As you said in your first post, my suggestions were minor. As an example, this year I added 1/2 point for a forced fumble for the D. Doing that does not create any more work for the league owners. Just gives a small reward for a D that is good at forcing fumbles. I thought it was a very important stat that was worthy of being included in our scoring.
You may have mis-spoke in your last paragraph. The week 2 scenario was not ugly for everyone. Probably only 5 to 10 percent of the owners had to take a 0 becuase of the game being canceled. So, probably over 90 percent of the owners benefited from what happened.
I want to finish by clarifying what is the main thing on my mind right now. My original point when I began this thread was the following: I have really enjoyed my first year here and was was impressed with many of the rules that were big improvements over the 2 leagues I run and other leagues I have been part of in the past. I mentioned 3 rules that I have enjoyed in other leagues that we do not use here. I am surprised at how strong your views are against by suggestions.
But, no problem! Espressing our views is what the message boards are for.
Bill Carson
reflections of a 1st year player in NFFC
Hey Bill,
I don't mean to be personal, except that you indicated you were angry so I stated I was peeved. I was being tongue-in-cheek, to be perfectly honest - my sarcasm isn't as obvious as it could be in text, I'll try to use more smileys
Passer rating is not a major stat, I think that's silly. 99% of the people that watch football have no real understanding of how it's calculated.
I'm only strongly against what you propose because it adds layers of complication that run the risk of sapping the fun of analyzing players, making judgement calls about their relative health, choosing to work on specific matchups or historical data to make decisions... plotting, researching, balancing decisions of weather, home field, etc. etc.
To me, trying to explain why Kerry Collins might be a better play than Brett Favre because KColl takes care of the ball and is methodical in his dink and dunk routines is kinda sickening... bleh, reward that long handoff by noting his yardage and scoring from it but what boring football... /yawn... WING that pigskin!!!!
I have no problem with you proposing anything, heck - I've seen some ssssilly commentary on this board for years now and some brilliant stuff as well. It's a good group of people and the game is well run and well cared for.
I think we differ primarily on one key point, Sir Bill - it's that you feel adding statistics that are already in a box score causes no extra work for the individual owner. I very much disagree.
If you're going to add in forced fumbles, +2 pts for a Defense on a winning team, +.5 pts. for giving up less pts., +1 pt. for offensive performance in outdoor stadiums in bad weather situations or what have you - every single one of these factors needs to be digested, understood and forecasted... for the season (in advance of the draft) and during the season as the high level fantasy football player digests matchup information and makes weekly lineup decisions.
In some 10 team ESPN league everyone has somewhat of an all star roster and you don't have to think as much. In a deep and big league with once per week FA bidding you have to weigh a lot more factors as you get to your 7th player or your primary backup for week 8 when your starting WR is on a bye. Having more stats to breakdown and try to analyze is fun perhaps, but time consuming definitely. The more obscure, the more non traditional, the more 'deep' the stats go - the more time it takes.
Well, let me amend that... the more time it SHOULD take. If you have no consideration for any of that... there's a good chance you're donating and not winning
As for the week 2 comment - I actually didn't mis-speak... it was an ugly scenario to have to deal with. I wasn't affected at all, personally - neither myself nor my opponent had any issues. It was ugly from a competitive perspective, though. Who'd want to win because of that? bleh...
I look forward to jousting against you in a future match-up and if Greg & Tom decide to modify the scoring I'll still gladly play the best high stakes game around
Dyv
I don't mean to be personal, except that you indicated you were angry so I stated I was peeved. I was being tongue-in-cheek, to be perfectly honest - my sarcasm isn't as obvious as it could be in text, I'll try to use more smileys
Passer rating is not a major stat, I think that's silly. 99% of the people that watch football have no real understanding of how it's calculated.
I'm only strongly against what you propose because it adds layers of complication that run the risk of sapping the fun of analyzing players, making judgement calls about their relative health, choosing to work on specific matchups or historical data to make decisions... plotting, researching, balancing decisions of weather, home field, etc. etc.
To me, trying to explain why Kerry Collins might be a better play than Brett Favre because KColl takes care of the ball and is methodical in his dink and dunk routines is kinda sickening... bleh, reward that long handoff by noting his yardage and scoring from it but what boring football... /yawn... WING that pigskin!!!!
I have no problem with you proposing anything, heck - I've seen some ssssilly commentary on this board for years now and some brilliant stuff as well. It's a good group of people and the game is well run and well cared for.
I think we differ primarily on one key point, Sir Bill - it's that you feel adding statistics that are already in a box score causes no extra work for the individual owner. I very much disagree.
If you're going to add in forced fumbles, +2 pts for a Defense on a winning team, +.5 pts. for giving up less pts., +1 pt. for offensive performance in outdoor stadiums in bad weather situations or what have you - every single one of these factors needs to be digested, understood and forecasted... for the season (in advance of the draft) and during the season as the high level fantasy football player digests matchup information and makes weekly lineup decisions.
In some 10 team ESPN league everyone has somewhat of an all star roster and you don't have to think as much. In a deep and big league with once per week FA bidding you have to weigh a lot more factors as you get to your 7th player or your primary backup for week 8 when your starting WR is on a bye. Having more stats to breakdown and try to analyze is fun perhaps, but time consuming definitely. The more obscure, the more non traditional, the more 'deep' the stats go - the more time it takes.
Well, let me amend that... the more time it SHOULD take. If you have no consideration for any of that... there's a good chance you're donating and not winning
As for the week 2 comment - I actually didn't mis-speak... it was an ugly scenario to have to deal with. I wasn't affected at all, personally - neither myself nor my opponent had any issues. It was ugly from a competitive perspective, though. Who'd want to win because of that? bleh...
I look forward to jousting against you in a future match-up and if Greg & Tom decide to modify the scoring I'll still gladly play the best high stakes game around
Dyv
The Wonderful thing about Dyv's is I'm the only one!
reflections of a 1st year player in NFFC
Originally posted by CC's Desperados:
Dyv-
good to see your aroused again! let's say passionate and not aroused... you're cool, but not that cute
[ December 11, 2008, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Dyv ]
Dyv-
good to see your aroused again! let's say passionate and not aroused... you're cool, but not that cute
[ December 11, 2008, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Dyv ]
The Wonderful thing about Dyv's is I'm the only one!
reflections of a 1st year player in NFFC
Dyv,
I agree with your main point about not making the scoring system too complicated. But, a big reason why I like the leagues here is that there are a lot of rules that are more involved than most basic leagues throughout the country.
My first experience with fantasy football was about 5 years ago in the very basic CBSSportsline leagues. Here were their free agent rules:
no cost to pick up free agents
no limits
open from Wed morning until games start Sunday
each Wed. order resets so worst records pick 1st
If someone suggested to go to the current NFFC system some could say: that is too complicated to allocate money for free agents and takes too much time to figure that out each week.
I want to repeat that I understand where you are coming from. It is a fine line to determine what rules enhance the league a little and make it more challenging and interesting AND what rules do not make a league more challenging and interesting.
I also agree that I am much more analytical than most. Often, something that bothers me a lot seems perfectly fine to someone else (not just in fantasy football!).
Here is a good example. Last August I almost joined the WCOFF. I read the rules carefully and discovered this.
RB B gains 50 yards and loses 3 fumbles
RB C gains 50 yards and loses 0 fumbles
(they score the same)
Defense A gives up 500 yards and 45 points
Defense B gives up 175 yards and 12 points
(they score the same)
I was not comfortable joining a league with those rules. I want to use stats that reflect the success of a player or D as best you can. Im my opinion a RB who loses 3 fumbles should not score the same as another RB who does not fumble and has the same yardage.
I understand that most people are just wanting to have some fun and are not interested in anything that may make a league more complicated and time consuming.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my posts.
Bill
I agree with your main point about not making the scoring system too complicated. But, a big reason why I like the leagues here is that there are a lot of rules that are more involved than most basic leagues throughout the country.
My first experience with fantasy football was about 5 years ago in the very basic CBSSportsline leagues. Here were their free agent rules:
no cost to pick up free agents
no limits
open from Wed morning until games start Sunday
each Wed. order resets so worst records pick 1st
If someone suggested to go to the current NFFC system some could say: that is too complicated to allocate money for free agents and takes too much time to figure that out each week.
I want to repeat that I understand where you are coming from. It is a fine line to determine what rules enhance the league a little and make it more challenging and interesting AND what rules do not make a league more challenging and interesting.
I also agree that I am much more analytical than most. Often, something that bothers me a lot seems perfectly fine to someone else (not just in fantasy football!).
Here is a good example. Last August I almost joined the WCOFF. I read the rules carefully and discovered this.
RB B gains 50 yards and loses 3 fumbles
RB C gains 50 yards and loses 0 fumbles
(they score the same)
Defense A gives up 500 yards and 45 points
Defense B gives up 175 yards and 12 points
(they score the same)
I was not comfortable joining a league with those rules. I want to use stats that reflect the success of a player or D as best you can. Im my opinion a RB who loses 3 fumbles should not score the same as another RB who does not fumble and has the same yardage.
I understand that most people are just wanting to have some fun and are not interested in anything that may make a league more complicated and time consuming.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my posts.
Bill