Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Just an FYI: Frank's suggestion of doing FAAB on Wednesday for just the Thursday players can be done technically on our end with some caveats, while also running FAAB on Friday for the rest of the available players (other 30 teams).
We haven't discussed this in great detail internally, but Frank's idea is in play. An important consideration that hasn't been mentioned yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBiKHqeF ... re=related
2012 Thursday Games
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Greg Ambrosius
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2012 Thursday Games
Originally posted by King of Queens:
Access to all players after the conclusion of the previous week's games
***versus***
Better information available to make your pickups
***versus***
Achieving both objectives, with the inconvenience of 2 pickups
I believe that's it in a nutshell Leave it to you to simplify the discussion. Thanks.
Access to all players after the conclusion of the previous week's games
***versus***
Better information available to make your pickups
***versus***
Achieving both objectives, with the inconvenience of 2 pickups
I believe that's it in a nutshell Leave it to you to simplify the discussion. Thanks.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
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2012 Thursday Games
Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
Access to all players after the conclusion of the previous week's games
***versus***
Better information available to make your pickups
***versus***
Achieving both objectives, with the inconvenience of 2 pickups
I believe that's it in a nutshell That be it!!!! [/QUOTE]Obviously this thread is not representative of
the entire NFFC, but I still find it interesting that so many players -- especially the old-timers -- cannot come to a consensus on what should happen here.
In 8+ years of the NFFC, this might be a first. [/QUOTE]Leave it to you to HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!
Agreed, I've never seen an NFFC debate with absolutely no consensus whatsoever. And Tom and I aren't even on the same page with this one.
As I stated earlier, this is a VERY CRITICAL decision for us as a game operator. We want to make the right decision that sticks for the NFFC every year going forward. The NFL has brought this upon us; we certainly didn't ask for Thursday through Monday games for 16 straight weeks. So how do we best handle this sticky situation now for owners who may have only 1 NFFC team or for owners who have multiple teams.
And let's be honest here: Most of you have multiple NFFC teams. Whether that's a Classic and a $125 satellite team, or a Classic and a Primetime or both Mains and a satellite, very few have only ONE TEAM. So let's not say we're making a decision for the people who own 20+ teams; anyone with 2 or more teams has extra work if we go to two FAAB periods. So let's keep the conversation in that context: Most of you have multiple fantasy football teams in our contest and other contests.
So now what???
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
Access to all players after the conclusion of the previous week's games
***versus***
Better information available to make your pickups
***versus***
Achieving both objectives, with the inconvenience of 2 pickups
I believe that's it in a nutshell That be it!!!! [/QUOTE]Obviously this thread is not representative of
the entire NFFC, but I still find it interesting that so many players -- especially the old-timers -- cannot come to a consensus on what should happen here.
In 8+ years of the NFFC, this might be a first. [/QUOTE]Leave it to you to HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!
Agreed, I've never seen an NFFC debate with absolutely no consensus whatsoever. And Tom and I aren't even on the same page with this one.As I stated earlier, this is a VERY CRITICAL decision for us as a game operator. We want to make the right decision that sticks for the NFFC every year going forward. The NFL has brought this upon us; we certainly didn't ask for Thursday through Monday games for 16 straight weeks. So how do we best handle this sticky situation now for owners who may have only 1 NFFC team or for owners who have multiple teams.
And let's be honest here: Most of you have multiple NFFC teams. Whether that's a Classic and a $125 satellite team, or a Classic and a Primetime or both Mains and a satellite, very few have only ONE TEAM. So let's not say we're making a decision for the people who own 20+ teams; anyone with 2 or more teams has extra work if we go to two FAAB periods. So let's keep the conversation in that context: Most of you have multiple fantasy football teams in our contest and other contests.
So now what???
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
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2012 Thursday Games
Originally posted by Glenneration X:
If I'm not a 20-teamer, I'm damn close. Still, I don't get the reluctance, even venom, towards two waiver periods.
I played WCOFF and they had two waiver periods and honestly I did not find it to be that much more work. All the preparation for FAAB was done for the Wednesday waiver period. Anyone decent was picked on Wednesday. All that was left in waivers by Friday were players that nobody wanted or they would have also been picked up on Wednesday. In each league I was in, the Friday pickups typically consisted of one or two pickups per league for teams that had late injury news.
The slightly, and I stress slightly, more work was more than compensated by the ability to manage my teams in a way that took bad luck or late injury further out of the equation. If I'm investing $1K+ for a team, and if multiplied by 20, 20K total or more, I want that control, that ability to reduce luck. I'm sorry I just don't get why you wouldn't want to avoid the luck factor in a game which already has much too much of it with so much invested.
Considering that slight amount of extra work is further reduced by Frank's proposal, if achievable I'm totally for that option. Honestly, I am interested in this discussion. WCOFF apparently had two waiver wire periods before their demise and if I recall people wondered why we never went that way. I'm surprised that we're not hearing more from those people who experienced that process. Was it a better system or not? Just asking for input on this one.
If I'm not a 20-teamer, I'm damn close. Still, I don't get the reluctance, even venom, towards two waiver periods.
I played WCOFF and they had two waiver periods and honestly I did not find it to be that much more work. All the preparation for FAAB was done for the Wednesday waiver period. Anyone decent was picked on Wednesday. All that was left in waivers by Friday were players that nobody wanted or they would have also been picked up on Wednesday. In each league I was in, the Friday pickups typically consisted of one or two pickups per league for teams that had late injury news.
The slightly, and I stress slightly, more work was more than compensated by the ability to manage my teams in a way that took bad luck or late injury further out of the equation. If I'm investing $1K+ for a team, and if multiplied by 20, 20K total or more, I want that control, that ability to reduce luck. I'm sorry I just don't get why you wouldn't want to avoid the luck factor in a game which already has much too much of it with so much invested.
Considering that slight amount of extra work is further reduced by Frank's proposal, if achievable I'm totally for that option. Honestly, I am interested in this discussion. WCOFF apparently had two waiver wire periods before their demise and if I recall people wondered why we never went that way. I'm surprised that we're not hearing more from those people who experienced that process. Was it a better system or not? Just asking for input on this one.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Coyote Streakers
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2012 Thursday Games
This is my opinion and it may mean nothing but I actually think a Wed waiver benefits the more astute owners who are on top of their game because they can read the tea leaves better than the average player. I may be wrong but that's how I feel. To me once all the information is main stream it sort of defeats the purpose because everyone can access it.
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The Franchise
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2012 Thursday Games
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
If I'm not a 20-teamer, I'm damn close. Still, I don't get the reluctance, even venom, towards two waiver periods.
I played WCOFF and they had two waiver periods and honestly I did not find it to be that much more work. All the preparation for FAAB was done for the Wednesday waiver period. Anyone decent was picked on Wednesday. All that was left in waivers by Friday were players that nobody wanted or they would have also been picked up on Wednesday. In each league I was in, the Friday pickups typically consisted of one or two pickups per league for teams that had late injury news.
The slightly, and I stress slightly, more work was more than compensated by the ability to manage my teams in a way that took bad luck or late injury further out of the equation. If I'm investing $1K+ for a team, and if multiplied by 20, 20K total or more, I want that control, that ability to reduce luck. I'm sorry I just don't get why you wouldn't want to avoid the luck factor in a game which already has much too much of it with so much invested.
Considering that slight amount of extra work is further reduced by Frank's proposal, if achievable I'm totally for that option. Honestly, I am interested in this discussion. WCOFF apparently had two waiver wire periods before their demise and if I recall people wondered why we never went that way. I'm surprised that we're not hearing more from those people who experienced that process. Was it a better system or not? Just asking for input on this one. [/QUOTE]I found it to be more work Greg. No matter if most of the "good" players were taken in Wednesday's faab, I still felt like I needed to go through Friday's faab very thoroughly just because the option was there and didn't want to half azz it. That meant that now I'm in full faab mode for 2 nights out of the week instead of one. No matter how you slice it or how many players I picked up on Wednesday, I still felt the need to review Friday's faab very closely.
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
If I'm not a 20-teamer, I'm damn close. Still, I don't get the reluctance, even venom, towards two waiver periods.
I played WCOFF and they had two waiver periods and honestly I did not find it to be that much more work. All the preparation for FAAB was done for the Wednesday waiver period. Anyone decent was picked on Wednesday. All that was left in waivers by Friday were players that nobody wanted or they would have also been picked up on Wednesday. In each league I was in, the Friday pickups typically consisted of one or two pickups per league for teams that had late injury news.
The slightly, and I stress slightly, more work was more than compensated by the ability to manage my teams in a way that took bad luck or late injury further out of the equation. If I'm investing $1K+ for a team, and if multiplied by 20, 20K total or more, I want that control, that ability to reduce luck. I'm sorry I just don't get why you wouldn't want to avoid the luck factor in a game which already has much too much of it with so much invested.
Considering that slight amount of extra work is further reduced by Frank's proposal, if achievable I'm totally for that option. Honestly, I am interested in this discussion. WCOFF apparently had two waiver wire periods before their demise and if I recall people wondered why we never went that way. I'm surprised that we're not hearing more from those people who experienced that process. Was it a better system or not? Just asking for input on this one. [/QUOTE]I found it to be more work Greg. No matter if most of the "good" players were taken in Wednesday's faab, I still felt like I needed to go through Friday's faab very thoroughly just because the option was there and didn't want to half azz it. That meant that now I'm in full faab mode for 2 nights out of the week instead of one. No matter how you slice it or how many players I picked up on Wednesday, I still felt the need to review Friday's faab very closely.
Winning isn't everything, but the will to win is.
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The Franchise
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2012 Thursday Games
Originally posted by Coyote Streakers:
This is my opinion and it may mean nothing but I actually think a Wed waiver benefits the more astute owners who are on top of their game because they can read the tea leaves better than the average player. I may be wrong but that's how I feel. To me once all the information is main stream it sort of defeats the purpose because everyone can access it. I agree with Mike.
And also going back to all my teams, I never really found myself looking for a replacement for my injured player. I usually had that option on the team already. Whether it was a WR, RB or TE. To me a kicker is a dime a dozen. If he has a hang nail I just assume cut him and pickup another kicker and not take the chance that he might miss the game.
Other than that I already had a pretty good idea who I wanted to pickup by Tuesday. All Friday FAAB did was allow for news to get out and drive up the price on the player/s that I was already targeting. This is also part of the reason I don't see a big deal with Wednesday FAAB vs. Friday FAAB. All your doing is waiting for more sites to report what most already know and in turn driving up the price on the key pickups for that particular week.
This is my opinion and it may mean nothing but I actually think a Wed waiver benefits the more astute owners who are on top of their game because they can read the tea leaves better than the average player. I may be wrong but that's how I feel. To me once all the information is main stream it sort of defeats the purpose because everyone can access it. I agree with Mike.
And also going back to all my teams, I never really found myself looking for a replacement for my injured player. I usually had that option on the team already. Whether it was a WR, RB or TE. To me a kicker is a dime a dozen. If he has a hang nail I just assume cut him and pickup another kicker and not take the chance that he might miss the game.
Other than that I already had a pretty good idea who I wanted to pickup by Tuesday. All Friday FAAB did was allow for news to get out and drive up the price on the player/s that I was already targeting. This is also part of the reason I don't see a big deal with Wednesday FAAB vs. Friday FAAB. All your doing is waiting for more sites to report what most already know and in turn driving up the price on the key pickups for that particular week.
Winning isn't everything, but the will to win is.
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Jersey Dawg
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2012 Thursday Games
The more I read and the more I think about it, 2 WW periods a week probably does solve all the issues.
I can't think of one reason why a WW on Weds night with only Thurs night players available is even part of the discussion. If there is a RB or WW or any player worth a bid playing Thursday everyone and his brother will bid on that player if they can't bid on onyone but Thursday players.
I guess I just changed my vote to 2 full WW's per week.
Nelson and the other great players will have to live with me getting some extra info on Friday, but by then they will have already scooped up the good/sneaky players Weds.
Pete
I can't think of one reason why a WW on Weds night with only Thurs night players available is even part of the discussion. If there is a RB or WW or any player worth a bid playing Thursday everyone and his brother will bid on that player if they can't bid on onyone but Thursday players.
I guess I just changed my vote to 2 full WW's per week.
Nelson and the other great players will have to live with me getting some extra info on Friday, but by then they will have already scooped up the good/sneaky players Weds.
Pete
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Glenneration X
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2012 Thursday Games
Originally posted by The Franchise:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
If I'm not a 20-teamer, I'm damn close. Still, I don't get the reluctance, even venom, towards two waiver periods.
I played WCOFF and they had two waiver periods and honestly I did not find it to be that much more work. All the preparation for FAAB was done for the Wednesday waiver period. Anyone decent was picked on Wednesday. All that was left in waivers by Friday were players that nobody wanted or they would have also been picked up on Wednesday. In each league I was in, the Friday pickups typically consisted of one or two pickups per league for teams that had late injury news.
The slightly, and I stress slightly, more work was more than compensated by the ability to manage my teams in a way that took bad luck or late injury further out of the equation. If I'm investing $1K+ for a team, and if multiplied by 20, 20K total or more, I want that control, that ability to reduce luck. I'm sorry I just don't get why you wouldn't want to avoid the luck factor in a game which already has much too much of it with so much invested.
Considering that slight amount of extra work is further reduced by Frank's proposal, if achievable I'm totally for that option. Honestly, I am interested in this discussion. WCOFF apparently had two waiver wire periods before their demise and if I recall people wondered why we never went that way. I'm surprised that we're not hearing more from those people who experienced that process. Was it a better system or not? Just asking for input on this one. [/QUOTE]I found it to be more work Greg. No matter if most of the "good" players were taken in Wednesday's faab, I still felt like I needed to go through Friday's faab very thoroughly just because the option was there and didn't want to half azz it. That meant that now I'm in full faab mode for 2 nights out of the week instead of one. No matter how you slice it or how many players I picked up on Wednesday, I still felt the need to review Friday's faab very closely. [/QUOTE]I can't stress enough how much I disagree with this statement. If it's more work, then it is due to the personal choice of each individual to put that upon themselves. Why? Because the additional work is absolutely unnecessary.
If a player has done their due diligence for a Wednesday FAAB, they've already identified which available players they wanted for each of their teams. They would have already placed a primary or contingency bid on them or would have already decided to pass on the player. If the players dropped from the Wednesday FAAB are not eligible to be picked up on Friday, there would be no additional players in the waiver pool. All that would be left would be players that have already been determined by each individual player of not being worthy of a bid for his or her team on Wednesday. Why would you anyone need to perform another thorough review? Why would anyone even need to even look at the pool again on Friday? The only reason would be due to a change in a specific team's circumstances due to a surprise inactive or late injury, which is what the whole point of having the second waiver period is in the first place.
Anyone who is doing a 2nd thorough review of the FAAB pool on Friday when the player pool is exactly the same is just doing it for no reason other than they feel compelled to do it. It's called OCD. Kidding aside, I don't believe that the only recourse to make moves when late injury or inactives news breaks should be suppressed because of a reluctance towards even having an option to do additional work that doesn't have to be done anyway.
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
If I'm not a 20-teamer, I'm damn close. Still, I don't get the reluctance, even venom, towards two waiver periods.
I played WCOFF and they had two waiver periods and honestly I did not find it to be that much more work. All the preparation for FAAB was done for the Wednesday waiver period. Anyone decent was picked on Wednesday. All that was left in waivers by Friday were players that nobody wanted or they would have also been picked up on Wednesday. In each league I was in, the Friday pickups typically consisted of one or two pickups per league for teams that had late injury news.
The slightly, and I stress slightly, more work was more than compensated by the ability to manage my teams in a way that took bad luck or late injury further out of the equation. If I'm investing $1K+ for a team, and if multiplied by 20, 20K total or more, I want that control, that ability to reduce luck. I'm sorry I just don't get why you wouldn't want to avoid the luck factor in a game which already has much too much of it with so much invested.
Considering that slight amount of extra work is further reduced by Frank's proposal, if achievable I'm totally for that option. Honestly, I am interested in this discussion. WCOFF apparently had two waiver wire periods before their demise and if I recall people wondered why we never went that way. I'm surprised that we're not hearing more from those people who experienced that process. Was it a better system or not? Just asking for input on this one. [/QUOTE]I found it to be more work Greg. No matter if most of the "good" players were taken in Wednesday's faab, I still felt like I needed to go through Friday's faab very thoroughly just because the option was there and didn't want to half azz it. That meant that now I'm in full faab mode for 2 nights out of the week instead of one. No matter how you slice it or how many players I picked up on Wednesday, I still felt the need to review Friday's faab very closely. [/QUOTE]I can't stress enough how much I disagree with this statement. If it's more work, then it is due to the personal choice of each individual to put that upon themselves. Why? Because the additional work is absolutely unnecessary.
If a player has done their due diligence for a Wednesday FAAB, they've already identified which available players they wanted for each of their teams. They would have already placed a primary or contingency bid on them or would have already decided to pass on the player. If the players dropped from the Wednesday FAAB are not eligible to be picked up on Friday, there would be no additional players in the waiver pool. All that would be left would be players that have already been determined by each individual player of not being worthy of a bid for his or her team on Wednesday. Why would you anyone need to perform another thorough review? Why would anyone even need to even look at the pool again on Friday? The only reason would be due to a change in a specific team's circumstances due to a surprise inactive or late injury, which is what the whole point of having the second waiver period is in the first place.
Anyone who is doing a 2nd thorough review of the FAAB pool on Friday when the player pool is exactly the same is just doing it for no reason other than they feel compelled to do it. It's called OCD. Kidding aside, I don't believe that the only recourse to make moves when late injury or inactives news breaks should be suppressed because of a reluctance towards even having an option to do additional work that doesn't have to be done anyway.
2012 Thursday Games
Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
How would they differ? I don't think a majority with few teams would want two waiver periods either. I know I sure wouldn't. I think some would, but not most. I would want it to be once on Thursday so I could bid on all players. As for getting it right for the future of the game, I agree 100 percent. Very important decision, which is why I will be very vocal about the solution for the good of the game. Dreams,
The vast majority of owners and ff players I have talked to have no problem at all with two waiver periods. The majority of guys I know ENJOY the waiver period process and see it as a fun part of the game. A strategic part of the game and not something burdensome or inconvenient.
Most people I know want to have the most possible information before making their FAAB bids. The earlier in the week we have to do it the more guess work is involved. As the weeks go on we get a better sense of who is playing and who is out and obviously there are those practice injuries that happen Thursday or Friday.
The people (at least that I have noticed) who seem to have a problem with this are the smaller group who can afford many teams run teams almost like investments and online trading. For them, it may be extra work.
That was the only point I was making. I haven't see many fantasy players who play in 5 or less leagues have a problem with 2 waiver periods, especially those who enjoy the waiver period as a mini draft/auction that takes place each week.
How would they differ? I don't think a majority with few teams would want two waiver periods either. I know I sure wouldn't. I think some would, but not most. I would want it to be once on Thursday so I could bid on all players. As for getting it right for the future of the game, I agree 100 percent. Very important decision, which is why I will be very vocal about the solution for the good of the game. Dreams,
The vast majority of owners and ff players I have talked to have no problem at all with two waiver periods. The majority of guys I know ENJOY the waiver period process and see it as a fun part of the game. A strategic part of the game and not something burdensome or inconvenient.
Most people I know want to have the most possible information before making their FAAB bids. The earlier in the week we have to do it the more guess work is involved. As the weeks go on we get a better sense of who is playing and who is out and obviously there are those practice injuries that happen Thursday or Friday.
The people (at least that I have noticed) who seem to have a problem with this are the smaller group who can afford many teams run teams almost like investments and online trading. For them, it may be extra work.
That was the only point I was making. I haven't see many fantasy players who play in 5 or less leagues have a problem with 2 waiver periods, especially those who enjoy the waiver period as a mini draft/auction that takes place each week.