2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by KOTRAX:
EVERYTHING SOUNDS GOOD GREG AND LIKE BILLY SAID WE ALL APPRECIATE THE HONESTY.

I PERSONALLY WOULDN'T LIKE TO SEE A THIRD TEAM IN THE HUNT AND THIS COMES FROM A PERSON WHO FINISHED SECOND IN POINTS IN THE 14 TEAMER AND DIDN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.


I KNOW IT IS STILL A LOW NUMBER THAT WILL MAKE IT BUT I WOULDN'T WANT TO "SATURATE" THE PLAYOFFS.


ALSO I STILL THINK SINCE THE NFFC MAIN EVENT SHOULD BE MOVED TO THE LATER START SINCE IT WILL BE YOUR "BIGGER" EVENT.


OTHER THAN THAT, THAT IS ALL I CAN THINK OF FOR NOW. Thanks Ormond. I appreciate the comments, but you're a perfect example of why I want to add a third league team to the Championship Round. If you finish second in your league in points, I think you are a worthwhile addition to the race for the grand prize. And 21.4% of all teams making the Championship Round really isn't "saturated." Or make that "SATURATED."

All good points and I'll consider all in making my final decision.

[KOTRAX]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
I hate the fact that others are losing money promoting other high stakes contests in order to claim market share.

F..k them. This is our event. WE created KDS together. WE created 3RR together. WE created a canyon of online satellites together. WE can start leagues..grude matches..whatever.I concur 100%. The ROI player got what they wanted, but they can't comprehend how damaging it is to the high stakes segment in the long run.

I sit on both sides of the fence. One day, and maybe that day is here now, you guys will wake up and realize that if these companies don't make a reasonable profit, they're not going to be around too long.

And that companies that enter the market with even worse profit margins can't grow because it takes CAPITAL to grow.

It's sad, but was oh so predictable a year ago that they would be screaming to their customers this year that they can't sustain business at these margins. Good luck to all of you that support this product, but don't be surprised the day they close there doors.

Signed,
Celebrating my 25th year in this business. [/QUOTE]I think we both can admit that we've seen this industry on the roller-coaster long enough to know that when one portion of the industry is hot everyone jumps in. And when it's no longer hot or when a few companies damage that area, then folks move on to the "next hot thing."

But that's life in business. I know the WCOFF and its participants didn't like me in 2004 when I chose to provide a new live event product and the companies who emerged in 2008 were just offering products that they felt were still underserved. More power to all of them who gained market share in Year One and are planning for Year Two.

Football is a players' paradise right now because the payout percentage is so good. No game operator made as much money as their champions in 2008, that's for sure!! And that's okay for the players because they don't need to worry about whether we make money or not. That's our job, not theirs. I'm just saying that I think we have an okay product here, we have five years of history to build on and I'm hopeful that our current participants stick with us for 2009, even if they still compete in all of these other events.

I'll admit that I enjoy our baseball event much more right now because it's a more stable marketplace. The fact that we're currently the only live high-stakes event in that market doesn't hurt, either. But I think football still has great promise for us and NBC Sports, and we're just hopeful that our customers stick with us as we try to grow beyond 300 teams per event. If we grow to the levels we all think we can with these events, then the grand prizes will be back near $100,000 and $50,000+ again. [/QUOTE]I THINK YOU ARE WRONG THERE GREG. I AM SURE I CAN SPEAK FOR THE WHOLE NFFC WHEN I SAY WE CARE IF YOU MAKE MONEY OR NOT.


IN A EVENT THAT I DON'T I'LL SPEAK FOR MYSELF. THIS IS YOUR JOB AND HOW YOU MAKE YOUR LIVING. YOU HAVE A FAMILY TO SUPPORT AND IF THE NFFC FAILS AND DON'T MAKE MONEY THAT EFFECTS YOU.


OUTSIDE OF THE FACT THAT GREAT RELATIONSHIPS COULD FOLD IF THE NFFC DIDN'T MAKE MONEY AND FOLD IT WOULD STINK FOR YOU AS WELL.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Sound Advice:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
I for one am HIGHLY against adding a guaranteed 3rd team to the playoffs...I am against that also.
The 3rd team that gets in should be the team with the second best record anyway. Not some team that had 2 good weeks and outscore him by 10 points, but lose 4 or 5 more games.
Do you really want to have that argument again?
6-7 or 5-8 teams do not belong in the playoffs.
"Playoffs" is an old Yiddish term that means "some teams are already out of it cause they blew chunks."
There is a very nice bracket for 5-8 teams.

NBC: I think moving the all-play weeks to bye weeks would (How do I put this nicely and with utmost respect?) be for the frickin' birds.

I'd keep the waivers the same as they were.
I'd rather them run at 5 like the year before last so I am free Friday nights.

I'd just remember that if God himself decides they ain't playin' in Houston, then they ain't playin' in Houston.
No special FA periods need to be created.
Dude, that's why they call him God.

Everything else sounds OK. [/QUOTE]As I said to Ormond, no problem on the disagreement about adding a third league team into the Championship Round. I'll post the difference between second place in total points in each league and third place shortly and see what folks think. I haven't done that yet and don't even know what the data states, but it's the best way to analyze this. Stay tuned.

I know you don't like the change in bye weeks, but everyone will know what weeks the "All Play" format is well before Draft Day and be able to plan accordingly, just like they did this year. I think we all learned this year that the "All Play" format is not an automatic win like we all expected for the top teams.

God Bless God. I agree on that last point.

[BillyWaz]

Greg,

Not sure if you read my post, but I was curious to the answer of this question....

"I didn't see any mention of the million dollar bonus. I assume that is still in play???"

Thanks!

[ January 19, 2009, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Greg,

Not sure if you read my post, but I was curious to the answer of this question....

"I didn't see any mention of the million dollar bonus. I assume that is still in play???"

Thanks! Well, obviously the reduction in the entry fee for the NFFC Primetime event makes it tough to do this. We will figure out some kind of bonus between the two events, but no, at this point, there is not a $1 million bonus for the two main events. As you know, it was an expense I ate last year separate from the 75% payout plan and it's possible I'll do it again this year. But the prize won't be the same because the cost is just too high with the revenue we'll be taking in at $1300 per team and $750 per team.

We must create a carrot that gives folks incentive to join both events and I have an idea on what I want to do, but I can't spend $20,000+ on that carrot again. It was too expensive, even for Bugs Bunny.

[ultimatefs]

Originally posted by Sound Advice:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
I for one am HIGHLY against adding a guaranteed 3rd team to the playoffs...I am against that also.
The 3rd team that gets in should be the team with the second best record anyway. Not some team that had 2 good weeks and outscore him by 10 points, [/QUOTE]You keep saying this. Can you please post some data to support it?

All I see is that top teams score 135-150 many more weeks than do 3rd place teams.

Top 2 teams will do this 8-11 times... 3 and below will do it 6-9 times.

I really don't see where guys scoring 190+ two weeks is affecting anything. Those are still the teams scoring 135-150 more often w/o those huge weeks.

[ultimatefs]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
I hate the fact that others are losing money promoting other high stakes contests in order to claim market share.

F..k them. This is our event. WE created KDS together. WE created 3RR together. WE created a canyon of online satellites together. WE can start leagues..grude matches..whatever.I concur 100%. The ROI player got what they wanted, but they can't comprehend how damaging it is to the high stakes segment in the long run.

I sit on both sides of the fence. One day, and maybe that day is here now, you guys will wake up and realize that if these companies don't make a reasonable profit, they're not going to be around too long.

And that companies that enter the market with even worse profit margins can't grow because it takes CAPITAL to grow.

It's sad, but was oh so predictable a year ago that they would be screaming to their customers this year that they can't sustain business at these margins. Good luck to all of you that support this product, but don't be surprised the day they close there doors.

Signed,
Celebrating my 25th year in this business. [/QUOTE]I think we both can admit that we've seen this industry on the roller-coaster long enough to know that when one portion of the industry is hot everyone jumps in. And when it's no longer hot or when a few companies damage that area, then folks move on to the "next hot thing."

But that's life in business. I know the WCOFF and its participants didn't like me in 2004 when I chose to provide a new live event product and the companies who emerged in 2008 were just offering products that they felt were still underserved. More power to all of them who gained market share in Year One and are planning for Year Two.

Football is a players' paradise right now because the payout percentage is so good. No game operator made as much money as their champions in 2008, that's for sure!! And that's okay for the players because they don't need to worry about whether we make money or not. That's our job, not theirs. I'm just saying that I think we have an okay product here, we have five years of history to build on and I'm hopeful that our current participants stick with us for 2009, even if they still compete in all of these other events.

I'll admit that I enjoy our baseball event much more right now because it's a more stable marketplace. The fact that we're currently the only live high-stakes event in that market doesn't hurt, either. But I think football still has great promise for us and NBC Sports, and we're just hopeful that our customers stick with us as we try to grow beyond 300 teams per event. If we grow to the levels we all think we can with these events, then the grand prizes will be back near $100,000 and $50,000+ again. [/QUOTE]20-year roller coaster

Keep hammering on NBC to get this on TV and the numbers will be there!

[Ted's Cracked Head]

Greg,

I too applaud your honesty and think this economy is going to put a decent dent in the hi-stakes games. I don't know anyone who isn't concerned about their job or future right at this point.

I have no problem with the overall "guaranteed" prize being reduced if that is what most folks want. I personally prefer to have the Championship round worth more than the individual league payouts but either way I am fine with it. I still play in these big challenges for a shot at big money.

I like the $2000 concept for both leagues and too would rather the 12 teamer draft first on Saturday. I think the lower fee for the 12 teamer may be enticing to a lot of fence-riders. Hook them for that product and they will play in both next year.

The FAAB deadlines: I wouldn't mind a Saturday deadline for weeks 1-9 and two periods on the weeks with Thursday games. The later in the week, the better.

Third team to the Champ Round - I have no problem with that as it just may keep teams playing harder longer in the NFFC challenge but in the 12 teamer I think 2 is fine. Again, either way is fine with me.

Dennis, I have no problem with a 6-7 team making the Championship Round if they are one of the higher scoring teams in the challenge.

Good work Greg and you know I will do what I can to help in any way possible. Just say the word.

[weber7777]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Normally we have all of our plans set in stone by the first week of January, but the state of the economy and the state of the fantasy football industry has us taking our time this year. Our two-event format needs a little tweaking if we are going to continue that way going forward and it starts with the price for each event. We've heard from enough of you that offering two $1,300 entry fee leagues will make it tough for you to play both this year, so we're still analyzing the NFFC Primetime now and should have more details soon.

Here are the changes we are looking to make in 2009 and I'm looking for your feedback on each of them. Please feel free to post your thoughts here and we'll nail this down shortly.

1. NFFC Classic will remain at $1,300 per team and we will keep the same league prizes and all of the overall prizes with the exception of one. We based last year's prizes on 392 teams and finished with 308 teams. This year we will base the guaranteed overall prize pool on 322 teams, which means there is $28,000 less to put towards the overall prize pool.

As a result, we will be knocking down the overall prize from $100,000 to $75,000. One prize will be affected, but we are still paying out over 75% and if we grow beyond 322 teams all of the additional prize money will be put right back into the overall grand prize. For those of you who love the 14-team format and want to see this survive and grow, hopefully you'll understand that we can do this together and reach $100,000 again if we can get more leagues each year. I don't want to affect the league prizes or the other overall prizes, so making this one change keeps the guarantee level manageable for us and allows us to grow this together.

2. We will be adding all third place finishers in each league to reach the Championship Round. This year we had 48 teams in the NFFC Classic Championship Round counting the wild card teams and if we had allowed third place teams into the Championship Round it would have been 66. The NFL has proven that any team can win it all once it gets to the playoffs and there's no reason for us not to go the same route. Adding more teams will make finishing third in your league more worthwhile and more profitable, will keep teams fighting longer each year, and will give more teams a shot at the $75,000 grand prize. Only 21.4% of all teams are still making the Championship Round in this new format, which is still a select few.

3. We will consider adding a third team to the year-end league playoff round if the team that finished second in that league in total points is knocked to third place. In other words, if one team finishes first in Total Points and the h2h champ didn't finish first or second in Total Points, then three teams will compete for the remaining $2,500. More details on this will come soon as I'm still working on this one.

4. FAAB Deadlines: There are three options for everyone to consider: 1) Just leave FAAB on Friday night for all weeks, including those in Weeks 10-13 where there are early games; or 2) Keep Friday night FAAB deadline on Friday all year and allow a Wednesday FAAB pickup in Weeks 10-13 ONLY for teams playing in the early games; or 3) Keep the setup we have now with Friday deadlines for FAAB in Weeks 1-9 and Wednesday FAAB deadlines for Weeks 10-13. Those would be the only players you could pick up with the Wednesday deadline. So in essence, you could have two FAAB periods during Weeks 10-13.

5. We'll need to write language into our rules allowing the commissioner to make an executive decision with free agent pickups before kickoff if the NFL ever cancels another game after our Friday night FAAB deadline. We can work on that together.

We do not have the NFFC Primetime figured out yet, but we are definitely looking for feedback on that one. Remember, we had 252 teams last year and based our prize money on 390 teams at $1300 each. We can't do that again this year.

Here's a thought: $750 per team for the NFFC Primetime while basing the prizes on 300 teams. We could offer $2,000 plus no co-manager fees for any team that will do both main events and keep the same percentage of payouts for league prizes. Under this scenario, the grand prize would be only $40,000, but we'd add to that total for every league after 25.

It's tough to make it all work at $750 per team and still cover all expenses for live events and still create the type of overall prize structure everyone has come to know and expect from us. But this does allow for the doubleheader, allows us to grow both 12-team and 14-team formats and gives our participants more games to play once they've already paid for travel to the live events.

I would consider adding third place teams to the Championship Round in the NFFC Primetime as well, which means 25% of all teams would have a shot at the grand prize. The one change would be the choice of the "All Play format in the 12-team leagues as I'd seriously consider scheduling the "All Play" formats during Weeks 4 and 10 when the NFL had six teams each week on byes.

There would be $4,400 available in league prizes under this format. Prizes could be $2,750, $1,250, $400 or something of that variation. Overall prize pool would have about $59,000 to play with, which would leave us something like $40,000 for first, $10,000 for second, $5,000 for third, $1,000 for fourth, and $700 free entries for 5th through 8th.

All NFFC Primetime free entries won in 2008 are still worth $1,300 in prizes and can be used for this main event with the remaining funds used for any other event or contest.

I'd love to offer both at $1,300 again, but the time doesn't seem right for that now.

Anyway, I'd love to see some feedback and see if there's a way we can start from here and grow both events together. Personally, I still like the two-event format and in Las Vegas I could see us even offering "Draft and Go" games throughout the weekend. The space is there and the die-hard players are there, so why not offer drafts throughout the weekend? There's more we can do, but hopefully folks will realize that we need to be smart with our guaranteed prize payouts and build this again. In 2004, we shot for 308 teams and had league payouts of $7,500 each. Now we have league payouts of $8,750 and thus we'll keep that level intact and grow the grand prize together.

Thanks for all your support through the years and let's make 2009 even better than 2008 together.