Weber,
Since some auctions are 12 teamers and some are 14 teamers, you have more weeks in the regular season in one league than the other. I suggest we just add all 16 weeks' starting points at $50 each for the first season.
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
*Ranked #1 Average Fantasy Football Player in the Nation 2004-2013
"Fantasy sports are all about LUCK. Except when I win."
"Fantasy sports are all about LUCK. Except when I win."
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
I have to admit I see people regularly talk about how much "harder" the 14 team event is as compared to the 12 team event. What does that mean? Why is it harder? You still have to identify the players who will produce and field the best lineup. To me it is the same challenge regardless of whether it is a 12 or 14 team league. Sure the talent is spread out more in the 14 team league but does that really make it harder or does that take a little more of the luck out of the equation (which to me makes the 14 team league easier).
Maybe I am missing something.
I am all for the 14 team league going second on draft day.
Greg,
I threw out some ideas and asked some questions. Was I nuts?
-Can we as players help grow sponsorship support that may add to prize funds?
-In a down economy might it be worth at least discussing how interested fantasy players might be in drafting in a less expensive venue given that vast majority of these guys are at the event more for a hardcore high stakes fantasy competition than they are to sight see and be a tourist.
-I can speak from experience that in Vegas about 10 years ago casino properties PAID our bowling event $100,000 just to host the event knowing it would lead to 500+ bowlers (most of which are into gambling just like fantasy players are) being at their gaming property for the event. That money dried up as Vegas exploded and occupancy numbers were so high the properties did not need the bowling events to fill the hotel. I am not saying 100K is available again but in this down economy (that is hurting Vegas) there might be opportunity given the gaming habits of fantasy sports enthusiasts.
Just throwing out ideas.
[ January 21, 2009, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: Renman ]
Maybe I am missing something.
I am all for the 14 team league going second on draft day.
Greg,
I threw out some ideas and asked some questions. Was I nuts?
-Can we as players help grow sponsorship support that may add to prize funds?
-In a down economy might it be worth at least discussing how interested fantasy players might be in drafting in a less expensive venue given that vast majority of these guys are at the event more for a hardcore high stakes fantasy competition than they are to sight see and be a tourist.
-I can speak from experience that in Vegas about 10 years ago casino properties PAID our bowling event $100,000 just to host the event knowing it would lead to 500+ bowlers (most of which are into gambling just like fantasy players are) being at their gaming property for the event. That money dried up as Vegas exploded and occupancy numbers were so high the properties did not need the bowling events to fill the hotel. I am not saying 100K is available again but in this down economy (that is hurting Vegas) there might be opportunity given the gaming habits of fantasy sports enthusiasts.
Just throwing out ideas.
[ January 21, 2009, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: Renman ]
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
Gk,
As basic as that point is you are right. I didn't think about it from that respect. I also understand the mainstream fantasy player might be more comfortable with a 12 team league.
As basic as that point is you are right. I didn't think about it from that respect. I also understand the mainstream fantasy player might be more comfortable with a 12 team league.
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36393
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
James, I appreciate the ideas, but trust me we are working on sponsorship possibilities every day. If you have a contact that will lead to a sponsor being part of what we're trying to do here with NBC Sports/Rotoworld.com, send them my way. Trust me, I worked with NBC and a separate ad agency last year and we did everything we could to make that work and at the end of the day it's still very tough to get a national company to attach themselves to a niche fantasy product. But that is the one area that is needed to make final numbers work for anyone in this space.
When we started the NFFC and NFBC, MVP Sports saw the value of our audience and gladly became a sponsor of our live events and the WCOFF as well. They realized that this was a target demographic they wanted to reach. It's bizarre that only offshore gambling companies realized this. Now it's our task to convince mainstream companies that this is a special demographic, but without more eyeballs and reach from a partner like NBC/Rotoworld.com they'll never consider an event this small.
Our biggest expense of the live drafts is Manhattan and it will be a site we will review for 2010. It's an expense we take on outside of the prize money, so trust me, internally every expense is being discussed. That includes the Sheraton in New York.
Las Vegas hotels are hurting right now, but they still don't give space away. In March after baseball, we will again meet with the Harrah's and MGM reps to see what is available for 2010 for both of our events and hopefully get an even better deal than we have now at the Flamingo.
We're not screaming poverty here, just looking at the guarantees in a down economy and trying to come up with the best model that is fair for the players and sensible from our side. We'll figure that out and make an announcement soon. It won't agree with everyone, but hopefully it will work for enough people to make our sixth season of the NFFC a good one.
When we started the NFFC and NFBC, MVP Sports saw the value of our audience and gladly became a sponsor of our live events and the WCOFF as well. They realized that this was a target demographic they wanted to reach. It's bizarre that only offshore gambling companies realized this. Now it's our task to convince mainstream companies that this is a special demographic, but without more eyeballs and reach from a partner like NBC/Rotoworld.com they'll never consider an event this small.
Our biggest expense of the live drafts is Manhattan and it will be a site we will review for 2010. It's an expense we take on outside of the prize money, so trust me, internally every expense is being discussed. That includes the Sheraton in New York.
Las Vegas hotels are hurting right now, but they still don't give space away. In March after baseball, we will again meet with the Harrah's and MGM reps to see what is available for 2010 for both of our events and hopefully get an even better deal than we have now at the Flamingo.
We're not screaming poverty here, just looking at the guarantees in a down economy and trying to come up with the best model that is fair for the players and sensible from our side. We'll figure that out and make an announcement soon. It won't agree with everyone, but hopefully it will work for enough people to make our sixth season of the NFFC a good one.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36393
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
Originally posted by GK:
...really, SNAKE does not see much support by the diehards nor the masses here on the three teams in the playoffs idea so why not simply ditch it?...thanks much...SNAKE A great sample size of opinions Glenn. Yeah, I'll go with the three posts here. Thanks. Sheesh.
Sometimes you have to make a gut call and go with it. I remember a lot of folks saying that KDS and 3RR were too quirky and would hurt the NFFC. Sometimes you make tough decisions that you feel convinced are good for the long-term viability of the product and hope you're right. If I decide to make this part of the NFFC, I'll use the same logic I did when we instituted 3RR and KDS and go with my gut feeling. That decision hasn't been made yet, but I sure know which way I'm leaning.
...really, SNAKE does not see much support by the diehards nor the masses here on the three teams in the playoffs idea so why not simply ditch it?...thanks much...SNAKE A great sample size of opinions Glenn. Yeah, I'll go with the three posts here. Thanks. Sheesh.
Sometimes you have to make a gut call and go with it. I remember a lot of folks saying that KDS and 3RR were too quirky and would hurt the NFFC. Sometimes you make tough decisions that you feel convinced are good for the long-term viability of the product and hope you're right. If I decide to make this part of the NFFC, I'll use the same logic I did when we instituted 3RR and KDS and go with my gut feeling. That decision hasn't been made yet, but I sure know which way I'm leaning.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36393
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
Originally posted by Blue_Foot:
Greg,
Thanks for the opportunity to pitch our two cents!
1. I love the 3 teams from each league make the chase idea!
2. 2K for two events....I am undecided about this. 2K is my limit and that has to include airfare and hotel. Maybe I can save a little money at the tables!
3. I would like to see two free agent periods each week. Wednesday and Friday. These days are part of the fun and it would really make all of us consider our drops on Wednesday...that guy could be playing against you on Sunday if picked up on Friday.
4. I like the added option of an overall auction league contest winner for the optional cost of $50. Couldn't this concept be applied to the other satallite leagues as well? A surcharge could be added as a sidepot for those who want to chase a bigger payoff.
Cheers! Thanks for the opinions Wayne. Some will like the addition of a third place team to the Championship Round and others will disagree. Again, this year there would have been 18 more teams in the Championship Round, going from 15.6% of all teams to 21.4%. I don't see that as a major "flooding" of extra teams, but I'm sure some will disagree.
Do both main events online this year and your 2K is covered!!
We'll see on the other two. Stay well this off-season.
Greg,
Thanks for the opportunity to pitch our two cents!
1. I love the 3 teams from each league make the chase idea!
2. 2K for two events....I am undecided about this. 2K is my limit and that has to include airfare and hotel. Maybe I can save a little money at the tables!
3. I would like to see two free agent periods each week. Wednesday and Friday. These days are part of the fun and it would really make all of us consider our drops on Wednesday...that guy could be playing against you on Sunday if picked up on Friday.
4. I like the added option of an overall auction league contest winner for the optional cost of $50. Couldn't this concept be applied to the other satallite leagues as well? A surcharge could be added as a sidepot for those who want to chase a bigger payoff.
Cheers! Thanks for the opinions Wayne. Some will like the addition of a third place team to the Championship Round and others will disagree. Again, this year there would have been 18 more teams in the Championship Round, going from 15.6% of all teams to 21.4%. I don't see that as a major "flooding" of extra teams, but I'm sure some will disagree.
Do both main events online this year and your 2K is covered!!
We'll see on the other two. Stay well this off-season.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36393
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
Originally posted by Hard heads:
I don't have any answers or bright ideas because unfortunately the bad economy is a bad economy and will put a beating on high stakes events just like it is small businesses, big businesses, Las Vegas and everyone. The 14 team event while unique and inviting to the diehard player, I think in the end will hurt because the average Joe looking at playing for the grand prize is not comfortable with anything other then the 12 team event. Using the 14 team event is not going to grow your business in these times. I think you can have a grand prize that is less then WCOFF and still make it this tantalizing. Make it $1,500 entry fee for a 14 team league. Make the league prizes the big deal with a chance to beat 13 others and win 10,000 then have a chance to beat the top 2 or 3 others for an additional 25,000 or something like that. Make league prizes 10, 5 and 3k and give people a chance to get a return on the league first and then go for a nicer chunk of change for beating the rest in a playoff round. Right now you pay 2,000 in WCOFF and only win money if you win your league and then have to be #1 of 100+ teams to win the grand prize. Odds are slim, but give me a chance to turn 1500 into 10K and I am in so fast you will see my head spin. I know I am probably in the minority, but in trying times, I would think most people are looking for a better return on investment rather then a lottery shot at the big prize. I truly think if you advertised $10,000 league prizes you could get 30+ leagues easily! As is now, with less of a carrot at the end and no increase in league prizes I can say Mike and I will probably be on the outside looking in and I hate to say that. Not trying to a downer, but being brutally honest at times like this is the best for us all in my opinion.
I appreciate all you guys do and you run a class event and I hope you can find that way to grow the business, but at this time in our economy I can't see it happening, especially with a lower prize structure. Thanks Craig. I think our niche is the 14-team format and now the Draft Day Doubleheader on Labor Day weekend. I really have no desire to be the biggest football event; I'd just really like to sell out both of our events in the 300+ team range and run a first-rate contest for people in all parts of the country. The 14-team format is a great test of skills and I'd have no problem continuing to be in the 300-400 team range for the main event with growth in our online ventures. I think our participants like the "winnable" format of 1:308 or so and hopefully even in a down economy our die-hards will return, especially if we keep the grand prize at $100,000.
I'd love to have the biggest league prizes possible, but then you'd have no overall prize. None. And I think when all is said and done, the $100,000 carrot is the prize most are chasing. If they just want an 8x league prize, our $1,000 Satellite League is there for them.
Again, I appreciate all of the input and I can understand if you and Mike can't work it out this year as the 14-teamer is a rough format. But hopefully the economy will show some light in the next eight months and hopefully the doubleheader at $2K looks better once you find yourself in the driver's seat for $20,000 in the NFBC Super League!! Good luck in baseball and we'll talk this all over beers in Las Vegas during March Madness.
I don't have any answers or bright ideas because unfortunately the bad economy is a bad economy and will put a beating on high stakes events just like it is small businesses, big businesses, Las Vegas and everyone. The 14 team event while unique and inviting to the diehard player, I think in the end will hurt because the average Joe looking at playing for the grand prize is not comfortable with anything other then the 12 team event. Using the 14 team event is not going to grow your business in these times. I think you can have a grand prize that is less then WCOFF and still make it this tantalizing. Make it $1,500 entry fee for a 14 team league. Make the league prizes the big deal with a chance to beat 13 others and win 10,000 then have a chance to beat the top 2 or 3 others for an additional 25,000 or something like that. Make league prizes 10, 5 and 3k and give people a chance to get a return on the league first and then go for a nicer chunk of change for beating the rest in a playoff round. Right now you pay 2,000 in WCOFF and only win money if you win your league and then have to be #1 of 100+ teams to win the grand prize. Odds are slim, but give me a chance to turn 1500 into 10K and I am in so fast you will see my head spin. I know I am probably in the minority, but in trying times, I would think most people are looking for a better return on investment rather then a lottery shot at the big prize. I truly think if you advertised $10,000 league prizes you could get 30+ leagues easily! As is now, with less of a carrot at the end and no increase in league prizes I can say Mike and I will probably be on the outside looking in and I hate to say that. Not trying to a downer, but being brutally honest at times like this is the best for us all in my opinion.
I appreciate all you guys do and you run a class event and I hope you can find that way to grow the business, but at this time in our economy I can't see it happening, especially with a lower prize structure. Thanks Craig. I think our niche is the 14-team format and now the Draft Day Doubleheader on Labor Day weekend. I really have no desire to be the biggest football event; I'd just really like to sell out both of our events in the 300+ team range and run a first-rate contest for people in all parts of the country. The 14-team format is a great test of skills and I'd have no problem continuing to be in the 300-400 team range for the main event with growth in our online ventures. I think our participants like the "winnable" format of 1:308 or so and hopefully even in a down economy our die-hards will return, especially if we keep the grand prize at $100,000.
I'd love to have the biggest league prizes possible, but then you'd have no overall prize. None. And I think when all is said and done, the $100,000 carrot is the prize most are chasing. If they just want an 8x league prize, our $1,000 Satellite League is there for them.
Again, I appreciate all of the input and I can understand if you and Mike can't work it out this year as the 14-teamer is a rough format. But hopefully the economy will show some light in the next eight months and hopefully the doubleheader at $2K looks better once you find yourself in the driver's seat for $20,000 in the NFBC Super League!!
Good luck in baseball and we'll talk this all over beers in Las Vegas during March Madness.Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
Originally posted by GK:
quote:Originally posted by Renman:
I have to admit I see people regularly talk about how much "harder" the 14 team event is as compared to the 12 team event. What does that mean? Why is it harder? You still have to identify the players who will produce and field the best lineup. To me it is the same challenge regardless of whether it is a 12 or 14 team league. Sure the talent is spread out more in the 14 team league but does that really make it harder or does that take a little more of the luck out of the equation (which to me makes the 14 team league easier).
Maybe I am missing something. ...RELATIVELY speaking you are correct however it's a simple numbers game as the odds of winning are higher therefore making it more difficult (1 in 14 as opposed to 1 in 12)...SNAKE [/QUOTE]Agreed Glenn.
Also, the talent obviously thins out quicker and requires you to have more strategy on how you will assemble your team.
If you think of it as 8 or 10 team leagues every team would be loaded with good players, 12 more diluted, 14 even more so, etc.
I can only imagine what a 16 teamer would be like!
quote:Originally posted by Renman:
I have to admit I see people regularly talk about how much "harder" the 14 team event is as compared to the 12 team event. What does that mean? Why is it harder? You still have to identify the players who will produce and field the best lineup. To me it is the same challenge regardless of whether it is a 12 or 14 team league. Sure the talent is spread out more in the 14 team league but does that really make it harder or does that take a little more of the luck out of the equation (which to me makes the 14 team league easier).
Maybe I am missing something. ...RELATIVELY speaking you are correct however it's a simple numbers game as the odds of winning are higher therefore making it more difficult (1 in 14 as opposed to 1 in 12)...SNAKE [/QUOTE]Agreed Glenn.
Also, the talent obviously thins out quicker and requires you to have more strategy on how you will assemble your team.
If you think of it as 8 or 10 team leagues every team would be loaded with good players, 12 more diluted, 14 even more so, etc.
I can only imagine what a 16 teamer would be like!
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Hard heads
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:00 pm
2009 NFFC Plans...For Now!
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Hard heads:
I don't have any answers or bright ideas because unfortunately the bad economy is a bad economy and will put a beating on high stakes events just like it is small businesses, big businesses, Las Vegas and everyone. The 14 team event while unique and inviting to the diehard player, I think in the end will hurt because the average Joe looking at playing for the grand prize is not comfortable with anything other then the 12 team event. Using the 14 team event is not going to grow your business in these times. I think you can have a grand prize that is less then WCOFF and still make it this tantalizing. Make it $1,500 entry fee for a 14 team league. Make the league prizes the big deal with a chance to beat 13 others and win 10,000 then have a chance to beat the top 2 or 3 others for an additional 25,000 or something like that. Make league prizes 10, 5 and 3k and give people a chance to get a return on the league first and then go for a nicer chunk of change for beating the rest in a playoff round. Right now you pay 2,000 in WCOFF and only win money if you win your league and then have to be #1 of 100+ teams to win the grand prize. Odds are slim, but give me a chance to turn 1500 into 10K and I am in so fast you will see my head spin. I know I am probably in the minority, but in trying times, I would think most people are looking for a better return on investment rather then a lottery shot at the big prize. I truly think if you advertised $10,000 league prizes you could get 30+ leagues easily! As is now, with less of a carrot at the end and no increase in league prizes I can say Mike and I will probably be on the outside looking in and I hate to say that. Not trying to a downer, but being brutally honest at times like this is the best for us all in my opinion.
I appreciate all you guys do and you run a class event and I hope you can find that way to grow the business, but at this time in our economy I can't see it happening, especially with a lower prize structure. I'd love to have the biggest league prizes possible, but then you'd have no overall prize. None. And I think when all is said and done, the $100,000 carrot is the prize most are chasing. If they just want an 8x league prize, our $1,000 Satellite League is there for them. [/QUOTE]I think that may be the biggest issue in growing the Main Event(which I think is still a goal whether you only want 300-400) is that there are a lot of people, my friends I have tried to recruit myself that don't want to invest $1,300 to cash a grand prize that is going to award one lucky Joe or Jill $100,000. That is why the Satellites, Supers, Ultimates etc have become more appealing at the moment with a larger immediate return on investment available. Anyway, I understand you are in a rough spot and do appreciate your honesty and I think the largest league payouts can be done with a Grand prize still in effect can be done, but I am probably wrong since I don't know the expenses that come into play. I do wish you luck and hope that Mike and can continue in this event. Had an idea and thought I would share it. See you in March!
quote:Originally posted by Hard heads:
I don't have any answers or bright ideas because unfortunately the bad economy is a bad economy and will put a beating on high stakes events just like it is small businesses, big businesses, Las Vegas and everyone. The 14 team event while unique and inviting to the diehard player, I think in the end will hurt because the average Joe looking at playing for the grand prize is not comfortable with anything other then the 12 team event. Using the 14 team event is not going to grow your business in these times. I think you can have a grand prize that is less then WCOFF and still make it this tantalizing. Make it $1,500 entry fee for a 14 team league. Make the league prizes the big deal with a chance to beat 13 others and win 10,000 then have a chance to beat the top 2 or 3 others for an additional 25,000 or something like that. Make league prizes 10, 5 and 3k and give people a chance to get a return on the league first and then go for a nicer chunk of change for beating the rest in a playoff round. Right now you pay 2,000 in WCOFF and only win money if you win your league and then have to be #1 of 100+ teams to win the grand prize. Odds are slim, but give me a chance to turn 1500 into 10K and I am in so fast you will see my head spin. I know I am probably in the minority, but in trying times, I would think most people are looking for a better return on investment rather then a lottery shot at the big prize. I truly think if you advertised $10,000 league prizes you could get 30+ leagues easily! As is now, with less of a carrot at the end and no increase in league prizes I can say Mike and I will probably be on the outside looking in and I hate to say that. Not trying to a downer, but being brutally honest at times like this is the best for us all in my opinion.
I appreciate all you guys do and you run a class event and I hope you can find that way to grow the business, but at this time in our economy I can't see it happening, especially with a lower prize structure. I'd love to have the biggest league prizes possible, but then you'd have no overall prize. None. And I think when all is said and done, the $100,000 carrot is the prize most are chasing. If they just want an 8x league prize, our $1,000 Satellite League is there for them. [/QUOTE]I think that may be the biggest issue in growing the Main Event(which I think is still a goal whether you only want 300-400) is that there are a lot of people, my friends I have tried to recruit myself that don't want to invest $1,300 to cash a grand prize that is going to award one lucky Joe or Jill $100,000. That is why the Satellites, Supers, Ultimates etc have become more appealing at the moment with a larger immediate return on investment available. Anyway, I understand you are in a rough spot and do appreciate your honesty and I think the largest league payouts can be done with a Grand prize still in effect can be done, but I am probably wrong since I don't know the expenses that come into play. I do wish you luck and hope that Mike and can continue in this event. Had an idea and thought I would share it. See you in March!