Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Dyv
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by Dyv » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:56 am

Originally posted by Nag':
While I'm certainly not qualified to get into a tax debate, I will tell you that deducting league fees and expenses against your winnings is a very "grey" area, as described by some CPA's. My CPA likes to use the term "creative" when something's not totally legit. So while he deducted everything I spend (fees, travel, computer, internet, etc) against my $5000 League Prize in WCOFF last year, I wouldn't be surprised if future FF winners will be getting a very unpleasant letter from the IRS questioning these practices.

My "40%" figure may be slightly exaggerated for some people, but that's a rough number I use for myself for any excess income, so I apologize. But even if you want to be an optimist and use Dyv's numbers, the return on your investment in a BEST CASE scenario is 5/1 while the odds of winning are 14/1. To the who find those odds appealing, I can only say....good luck (emphasis on LUCK) Nag, at a bare minimum there isn't a good tax advisor in the country who would advise against writing off the cost of getting in the contest to win the money. The IRS standard is essentially 'if it took those costs to make that income you can deduct it (if it's not exempted in some other previous ruling or code, blah blah)' - without the entrance fee AND your attendance at the live draft, you could not have possibly received the compensation. Hard to argue against that.

I don't mind you possibly exaggerating and I'm not saying there aren't some people in these contests with high enough tax brackets to make your numbers realistic, but those people aren't probably worried about the tax impact so much as the thrill of playing ;)

I think it comes down to how you rate yourself as a player - and THAT is a fair question for all of us.

Dyv
The Wonderful thing about Dyv's is I'm the only one!

Nag'
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by Nag' » Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:13 am

Unfortunately, it's not that simple since the government and the IRS is not yet fully convinced that FF winnings fall under earned income and not under gambling income. That's why there's a "grey" area I mentioned. But that's a subject for another debate.

As for the "thrill of playing", that's why we have the NFFC, WCOFF and other high stakes contests, not to mention our own local/internet leagues. But if I'm going to INVEST $5000, which is 4-5 times the typical high-stakes entry fee, it no longer becomes strictly for the thrill of playing (at least - it shouldn't). 5/1 payout, 14/1 odds of winning. That's what I see. And I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm SO much better than the other 13 owners that I can overcome those poor odds, even if it might be true.
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David Wooderson
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by David Wooderson » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:59 am

You guys really should become the next Hannity and Colmes.

TamuScarecrow
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by TamuScarecrow » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:14 am

By the time the league starts next year we may be paying a 16% national sales tax and no federal income tax and not have to worry about it. You blue-state guys need to mellow a bit. If I were you, Nag, I'd start worrying about Hillary versus Rudy in 2008. Then you'll really have to work on calculating odds to make a decision that counts. This is a hobby to me and I hate it when people try to turn it into a business decision.
2005 NY/CHI League Champ
2006 CHI#2 3rd Place
2006 Auction Reg Season Champ
2007 TAM#2 2nd Place
2007 Auction Reg Season Champ
2009 LV#5 League Champ
2010 Auction Reg Season Champ
2011 LV#3 2nd Place
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lichtman
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by lichtman » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:28 am

If you are worried about gambling winnings and grey areas, i would like to suggest a very simple solution: get a broom and go to your local OTB/racetrack/jai alai fronton and sweep up as many losing tickets as you can. Then deduct the "losses" from those tickets against your winnings, saving the losing tickets for a poential audit.
Hello. My name is Lee Scoresby. I come from Texas, like flying hot-air balloons, being eaten by talking polar bears and fantasy football.

Nag'
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by Nag' » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:46 am

TamuScarecrow, here's a FYI: as I'm writing this post, I'm staring at exactly 8 photos/letters from George W. hanging on the wall of my office, thanking me & my family for our support.
And if you consider spending $5000 (or even just a couple of thousand) NOT a business decision, we have plenty of opportunities here in NYC for investors like yourselves. Should I schedule FedEx to pickup your check?
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Nag'
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by Nag' » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:50 am

Originally posted by I Cojones:
If you are worried about gambling winnings and grey areas, i would like to suggest a very simple solution: get a broom and go to your local OTB/racetrack/jai alai fronton and sweep up as many losing tickets as you can. Then deduct the "losses" from those tickets against your winnings, saving the losing tickets for a poential audit. When/if you win the $100G in this contest (or even a lesser amount), be sure to follow your advice and claim those OTB tickets as offsetting losses against it and let me know how the IRS like it.
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Dyv
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by Dyv » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:51 am

Originally posted by David Wooderson:
You guys really should become the next Hannity and Colmes. hehehe

The Wonderful thing about Dyv's is I'm the only one!

JerseyPaul
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by JerseyPaul » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:16 am

Reported on a 1099-G = Gambling
Reported on a 1099-M = Other Income

As you'll get a 1099-M, expenses incurred in generating the income are appropriate, and should be reported on a Schedule C.

TamuScarecrow
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Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Post by TamuScarecrow » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:52 am

And if you consider spending $5000 (or even just a couple of thousand) NOT a business decision, we have plenty of opportunities here in NYC for investors like yourselves. Should I schedule FedEx to pickup your check?$5000 doesn't go far in NYC. Taxes are too high and the cost of living and weather both suck. That's why I've met and played golf with tons of New Yorkers down here as this is where they are all migrating. You'll probably have the whole place to yourself by 2010. Fact is, some people can afford their hobbies and some can't. I CAN.

TamuScarecrow, here's a FYI: as I'm writing this post, I'm staring at exactly 8 photos/letters from George W. hanging on the wall of my office, thanking me & my family for our support.I wasn't calling out the blue state guys for their politics, Nag. Just going by what I see here on the MB's that most of the NY guys are uptight and view everything as a business decision. If this isn't fun, Nag, why do it? I don't know how old you are but I'll be 50 on New Year's Eve so let me give you the same advice my mom gave me. You're going to be in debt all of your life so learn to enjoy it.
2005 NY/CHI League Champ
2006 CHI#2 3rd Place
2006 Auction Reg Season Champ
2007 TAM#2 2nd Place
2007 Auction Reg Season Champ
2009 LV#5 League Champ
2010 Auction Reg Season Champ
2011 LV#3 2nd Place
2012 LV Classic League Champ

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