poor sports

[got heeem]

could be colluion with another owner . who knows cut these guys and his partner with a lot of faab gets the guys to push his team over the top .if we would not have made a big stink about this and not brought it to you .they could have did this .jmo

[BLACKHAND]

I VOTE DEATH PENALTY .DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THIS .

[Greg Ambrosius]

The decision is final, Mike and there's no need for the eye roll. If you and others disagree with our decision that's fine. It's not the first time and I doubt it will be the last time we do something you and others may not agree with. Greg and I evaluated the situation, we took measures that are clearly stated in our rules and responded accordingly.

As far as how we would handle it in the future should something similar occur again, if you disagree with how we handled it here feel free to post your suggestions. I would like to believe all of you know that we'll obviously consider all suggestions to make our games better. Hopefully after nine years of doing this we've proven that to all of you by now.

Tom,

Can you explain your rationale for not putting his whole team back? While I understand that you and Greg don't manage people's teams for them and they are, within reason, free to make their own moves, isn't the spirit of that rule really more about you not getting involved in a player or few being dropped here and there? In this case, in one single week, the waiver pool will be injected with 13 players who were just last week on someone's roster, as well as 13 players removed from the pool in one week. Don't you see that as a whole different case - one that truly should warrant just putting his whole team back?

Mike, obviously the players received via FAAB this week in this satellite league had competing bids as well, so by just putting all of these players back it wouldn't be fair as well. Why wouldn't the runnerup bidders ask to get those players instead? Why should everyone now see the winning and runnerup bids for each of these players? There are many considerations to be made here. What happened was that one owner -- and again, this is the first time I've ever seen this done in any league and no matter what this owner says it doesn't seem like a smart thing to do -- legally picked up 20 players via free agency. He cut 20 players and we've decided that 7 should be pulled from the free agent pool. So this league has 7 fewer available players than other satellite leagues.

We had the option to reverse the moves, but again there were other bids for those players. We made this decision before looking up the records of his remaining three opponents. We posted that because it showed that h2h wasn't going to be affected for the league title. We have NEVER dealt with more than 1 questionable cut from any team in any given week, so this is testing us on all parameters. We likely could be criticized if we reversed all of the moves -- again, the secondary bidders would have a legitimate gripe -- and criticized for what we did.

I understand the criticism on US by those who want to dispute what we decided, but no matter what we did in a crazy situation like this there was no way to win. We will watch this owner and every owner the rest of the way to make sure people don't do it to screw things up again. Will we make the exact same decision if it happens again? Well, quite possibly, but every situation is unique. And this is the MOST UNIQUE cut EVER and we did what we felt was best in this league. Right or wrong, I understand why some/many would disagree no matter what we decided.

[Greg Ambrosius]

so what you are saying is that if i'm in a league with billy and i am out of it the last week of the year and he is tied for 1st place and i did this and started all jag players it is ok and i can run my team as i please. i would not want to win like that( or billy) nor do i approve of that. in year two of the nffc i was in that situation with my friend johnny ( ri workhorse ) and it was understood that i was going to do my best to knock him out. nothing personal , just business. without integrity there is no nffc. as i said before , we as a group must prevent this again and set something up to prevent this again.

And you played it right Frank. And 99.9% of the people in the NFFC would play it right, too. Let's all agree what this guy did last night has NEVER been seen before and again we'll deal with each situation as we see fit. I'm sure that NOBODY wins when someone cuts their whole roster, right? THAT we can agree on.

[Sandman62]

Mike, obviously the players received via FAAB this week in this satellite league had competing bids as well, so by just putting all of these players back it wouldn't be fair as well. Why wouldn't the runnerup bidders ask to get those players instead? Why should everyone now see the winning and runnerup bids for each of these players?

Actually, not true. He bid $25 on each of the 20 players he acquired, and not one of them had a competing bid.

I think you're sticking a bit too close to your precedent on not interfering with teams here. But in this case, with you admitting how extreme a case it is, shouldn't common sense prevail?

[got heeem]

i say for next season since there is a thread for rules. is to have a rule that if this is done again a player forfits ALL HIS TEAMS IN ALL LEAGUES . seems like a way to make sure this NEVER happens again . what if one of his last 3 games were against the top teams . would a slap on the wrist be enough .i was very pissed when i looked at the faab pick ups this morning and still haven't let it go .all leagues are important to everyone in them if their $150 sat or main event they should all be treated as such .not that well it's only a $150 sat .we are all customers most good and have class and play as such .some penalty should be brought down .

[Money]

If the guy is a straight up player, possibly he got caught up in a weak moment. A simple apology to those in his league and the assurance that he was mistaken and it won't happen again. Everybody has a bad day once in a while.

No excuse for this, admit you're wrong, say it's never happened before and you won't do it again. We're a forgiving group when we admit our mistakes.

[got heeem]

I VOTE DEATH PENALTY .DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THIS .

can i be the guy with the bat i'm mad enough .

[Greg Ambrosius]

i say for next season since there is a thread for rules. is to have a rule that if this is done again a player forfits ALL HIS TEAMS IN ALL LEAGUES . seems like a way to make sure this NEVER happens again . what if one of his last 3 games were against the top teams . would a slap on the wrist be enough .i was very pissed when i looked at the faab pick ups this morning and still haven't let it go .all leagues are important to everyone in them if their $150 sat or main event they should all be treated as such .not that well it's only a $150 sat .we are all customers most good and have class and play as such .some penalty should be brought down .

Nobody is saying "Oh good, it's just a $150 Satellite League." We're saying the moves were done legally and we removed the top free agents to avoid the total points race by being affected anymore than possible. He can't affect the h2h winner in this league, although, yes the free agents being taken by this team could hurt others when they look for pickups in Weeks 12 and 13.

I sure hope nobody tries this again. If we put in our rules every possible scenario -- I mean, is cutting 5 top players too many (yes), 7, 10, a whole team? -- our rules would be gigantic. Does any other league make such a distinction in their rules?? No, because nobody has ever dealt with this again. Should we have No Cut Lists? Again, would that have prevented him from cutting players 8-20? No. So we would have allowed some cuts, but not others?

I'm not sure there is a safeguard for anyone who cuts all 20 players, but we're watching all moves like we always do and then we act immediately. Again, I don't expect EVERYONE to say we acted perfectly, but no matter what we did the league owners were going to be affected and we would have been criticized either way. There was no winning answer for this ownership move. Heck, it was even worse than what the Florida Marlins did.

[Sandman62]

If the guy is a straight up player, possibly he got caught up in a weak moment. A simple apology to those in his league and the assurance that he was mistaken and it won't happen again. Everybody has a bad day once in a while.

No excuse for this, admit you're wrong, say it's never happened before and you won't do it again. We're a forgiving group when we admit our mistakes.

How's this for his "apology" on the league message board?

Hey HOT SEAT, I didn't hear any complaining about your free pass last week when you played against a team who dressed injured players and bye-week players. Am I playing anyone with a chance to win it all in the next three weeks? Didn't think so. My moves are a reflection of my frustration with fantasy football and maybe even my sense of humour (dropping Peyton Manning for Mark Sanchez? Even you had to laugh at that). As a paying customer it's my right to adjust my team as I see fit, and a Manning-for-Sanchez swap was the most fun I've had on this site all year. And I agree with you, moves like that wouldn't be funny if I was screwing someone else over down the road, but since I'm not there really isn't any harm in it. They do not impact this league at all because the players I dropped are ineligible for free-agency and none of the teams I still have to face have any chance of winning. If I was still facing any of the top teams I would not have made these moves because then it might have mattered in the standings and I would have deserved to be called a punk for screwing someone else over. And if I was a punk, I would report guys like you and Debutantes for slander and harassment but I won't do that because I'm an alright guy, even to people who call me punk and other nasty things from behind their keyboards. Next time you want to badmouth someone for something, try understanding the situation first. Either that or you could just keep thinking you've got it all figured out.

Nick DeRuiter

Full disclosure, here was my reply:

If you had nearly as much intellect as you do childish frustration, you'd have been able to determine that it may not just be your top 7 dropped players that can affect the league. Yes, Tom put those back. But the other 13 are now all hitting the waiver pool in one week, and you also took 13 from the pool all in one week.

Now, most of the players you picked up don't matter, and ditto for most of the ones you dropped. But certainly SOME may matter. And if you had an ounce of integrity and had finished what you started like a man, then in all likelihood, you would never drop more than a few players at a time. If you can't see the difference, well, like I said, then you're just not too bright. Either that, or you're just the selfish prick you come across as doing stuff like this.

I'm so glad I raised a son who would never stoop to this garbage. The world needs more honest people with integrity. You're obviously not among them - loser!