Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
-
Tom Kessenich
- Posts: 30094
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
Awarding return TDs to the individual players is something that I find interesting. Let's see what Greg thinks but if we did that would you be in favor of only giving the TD to the player or awarding TDs to both the player and the team (that's how we do it in my Main League, for example).
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
-
ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
Originally posted by renman:
felix,
Great point. Which defense played a better game Monday night? The Cards or Bears?
Cards -14
Bears - 23
Maybe more influence should be put on how the actual defense performs? Is there a way to eliminate when a team gives up points through its offense and not defense? Do we give points to yards allowed rather the points allowed? Who knows? LOL. this is always a fun debate.
The team that doesn't have the ball is on defense according to the way NFL has always done it's official stats.
If Arz was to tackle the guy returning the recovery, that player would get cerdited with a def play.
If Chi recovers a fumble, and in the return, fumbles back, ARZ D gets a fumble recovery according to NFL.
felix,
Great point. Which defense played a better game Monday night? The Cards or Bears?
Cards -14
Bears - 23
Maybe more influence should be put on how the actual defense performs? Is there a way to eliminate when a team gives up points through its offense and not defense? Do we give points to yards allowed rather the points allowed? Who knows? LOL. this is always a fun debate.
The team that doesn't have the ball is on defense according to the way NFL has always done it's official stats.
If Arz was to tackle the guy returning the recovery, that player would get cerdited with a def play.
If Chi recovers a fumble, and in the return, fumbles back, ARZ D gets a fumble recovery according to NFL.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Awarding return TDs to the individual players is something that I find interesting. Let's see what Greg thinks but if we did that would you be in favor of only giving the TD to the player or awarding TDs to both the player and the team (that's how we do it in my Main League, for example). Defense/Special Teams is really what we are drafting when we draft a team defense, not just the defense. I prefer it that way.
Awarding return TDs to the individual players is something that I find interesting. Let's see what Greg thinks but if we did that would you be in favor of only giving the TD to the player or awarding TDs to both the player and the team (that's how we do it in my Main League, for example). Defense/Special Teams is really what we are drafting when we draft a team defense, not just the defense. I prefer it that way.
-
ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
Originally posted by SNAKE:
...ok, so then...by the same logic, when Joey Harrington hits Chris Chambers square in the numbers only to see the ball bounce off his chest and into the waiting hands of a NY Jet cornerback, the interception should not be charged to Joey H. but to CC instead, right?..right?...where do you draw the line then?...SNAKE not sure if you were responding to my post, but it looks like you were.
NFL logic says that's the QB.
But your scenario is why I give QB's a mulligan INT in my game.
...ok, so then...by the same logic, when Joey Harrington hits Chris Chambers square in the numbers only to see the ball bounce off his chest and into the waiting hands of a NY Jet cornerback, the interception should not be charged to Joey H. but to CC instead, right?..right?...where do you draw the line then?...SNAKE not sure if you were responding to my post, but it looks like you were.
NFL logic says that's the QB.
But your scenario is why I give QB's a mulligan INT in my game.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
Originally posted by SNAKE:
...ok, so then...by the same logic, when Joey Harrington hits Chris Chambers square in the numbers only to see the ball bounce off his chest and into the waiting hands of a NY Jet cornerback, the interception should not be charged to Joey H. but to CC instead, right?..right?...where do you draw the line then?...SNAKE I feel the pain on that one SNake, as there are MANY instances when the QB isn't at fault on a pick.
However, this is obviously a SUBJECTIVE call, as what you consider "in the numbers", I may consider "thrown behind him", etc.
Gotta go with the stats on this one.
To add to this, I like the idea of kick/punt returners receiving the 6 for a TD or punt return AND the defense/special teams. If you had Steve Smith AND Carolina, and he took a punt back to the house, that would be 12 points.
Sure would make Dante Hall get picked in a bunch of leagues!
...ok, so then...by the same logic, when Joey Harrington hits Chris Chambers square in the numbers only to see the ball bounce off his chest and into the waiting hands of a NY Jet cornerback, the interception should not be charged to Joey H. but to CC instead, right?..right?...where do you draw the line then?...SNAKE I feel the pain on that one SNake, as there are MANY instances when the QB isn't at fault on a pick.
However, this is obviously a SUBJECTIVE call, as what you consider "in the numbers", I may consider "thrown behind him", etc.
Gotta go with the stats on this one.
To add to this, I like the idea of kick/punt returners receiving the 6 for a TD or punt return AND the defense/special teams. If you had Steve Smith AND Carolina, and he took a punt back to the house, that would be 12 points.
Sure would make Dante Hall get picked in a bunch of leagues!
Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
The answer to the topic is "no" the defense/special team setup is not fair for 2 reasons.
First, I believe negative points should be implemented for allowing large points given up. (ex. 24-29=-1, 30-34=-2, 35+=-4) Just as a QB is penalized for throwing an INT.
Second, I lost in week 3 because my Bills Defense gave up 28 points against the Jets although 14 of them came from the Bills Offense turning the ball over for TD's. So, essentially I lost a huge game (in the ultimate league) because the Offense of the team whose Defense I have blew it. That should not have an impact on the defense.
Fix these 2 issues and you will have a much better product.
First, I believe negative points should be implemented for allowing large points given up. (ex. 24-29=-1, 30-34=-2, 35+=-4) Just as a QB is penalized for throwing an INT.
Second, I lost in week 3 because my Bills Defense gave up 28 points against the Jets although 14 of them came from the Bills Offense turning the ball over for TD's. So, essentially I lost a huge game (in the ultimate league) because the Offense of the team whose Defense I have blew it. That should not have an impact on the defense.
Fix these 2 issues and you will have a much better product.
-
sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
Yes...it is fair.
Everyone knew the scoring before the draft.
Everyone had a chance to draft CHI DEF from the 6th round on in most cases.
Everyone can only play one DEF.
How unfair can this be?
~Lance
Everyone knew the scoring before the draft.
Everyone had a chance to draft CHI DEF from the 6th round on in most cases.
Everyone can only play one DEF.
How unfair can this be?
~Lance
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
-
sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
Originally posted by SNAKE:
DEF's being the single greatest positional factor in deciding FF games is just wrong ISHO...sorry (for you Greg)...SNAKE The Chicago DEF is the single greatest reason why CHI is undefeated...why not give them credit???
They are an amazing DEF team this year.
~Lance
DEF's being the single greatest positional factor in deciding FF games is just wrong ISHO...sorry (for you Greg)...SNAKE The Chicago DEF is the single greatest reason why CHI is undefeated...why not give them credit???
They are an amazing DEF team this year.
~Lance
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
-
Sound Advice
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:00 pm
Defensive Scoring Points: Are They Fair
Greg,
I'm not sure you understood my point.
"Please give the def LESS points!!!
You added way too many last year.
I believe the idea was that shutouts were rare and deserved more than they were getting.
NO ONE wanted defenses to decide all the outcomes.
It was a great idea, but the implications were horrible.
Defenses now decide WAY too many games.
I don't think anyone wanted the team def to decide half the close games.
Subtract some of those points for next year please.
If you add more def points it will become:
"I play in the NFFC, you know the one that drafts defenses in the first round. lol."
I'd go for 1 per block, but points need to be taken away overall. Maybe take out the punt/kickoff return td, and lessen the points structure, so that overall the def get less points than they do now."
That is my opinion pure and simple.
The part about the Chi defense was a separate point to show just how lucky those 18 points were.
I wasn't suggesting giving less than the 12 they got for basically nothing. You could certainly not give 6 to the defense for the punt return.
I also feel like you missed my point that EVERYONE probably thought the points should go up last year. Snake included.
But we were all wrong. Way too many points are given to the defense now that we see it implemented.
Too many close games are decided by defense.
It was great and very proactive of you to make that change last year. I now see that we were all wrong asking for it. It changed the game in negative ways no one figured into the equation.
I'm not sure you understood my point.
"Please give the def LESS points!!!
You added way too many last year.
I believe the idea was that shutouts were rare and deserved more than they were getting.
NO ONE wanted defenses to decide all the outcomes.
It was a great idea, but the implications were horrible.
Defenses now decide WAY too many games.
I don't think anyone wanted the team def to decide half the close games.
Subtract some of those points for next year please.
If you add more def points it will become:
"I play in the NFFC, you know the one that drafts defenses in the first round. lol."
I'd go for 1 per block, but points need to be taken away overall. Maybe take out the punt/kickoff return td, and lessen the points structure, so that overall the def get less points than they do now."
That is my opinion pure and simple.
The part about the Chi defense was a separate point to show just how lucky those 18 points were.
I wasn't suggesting giving less than the 12 they got for basically nothing. You could certainly not give 6 to the defense for the punt return.
I also feel like you missed my point that EVERYONE probably thought the points should go up last year. Snake included.
But we were all wrong. Way too many points are given to the defense now that we see it implemented.
Too many close games are decided by defense.
It was great and very proactive of you to make that change last year. I now see that we were all wrong asking for it. It changed the game in negative ways no one figured into the equation.