What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:33 am

4D, I just don't believe anyone is taking signups there. I do believe the Registration page with dates and times and events were set up previously by RT Sports for that contest and they may be functional, but I do not believe anyone can enter their cc information. If someone signs up and pays by check, then that customer is really out of touch with that contest. But I just don't believe the system is allowing anyone to sign up and pay for a 2011 event before all 2010 winners are paid.

Without a stat service, you can't run a game. No, you can't run high-stakes pay games on a competing site like Yahoo. You need to be contracted to do that.

If anyone has paid for a league there in the last month and money has been received and deposited, then that person should speak up and post here. Otherwise, insinuating that they have taken money when there are no facts to prove that is irresponsible. Again, if someone knows that has been done then speak up because that's not right. Everyone knows what is going on there for 2011 and it's not right. But again I'll state, I don't believe any signups can be taken there now for 2011. It's not being allowed online from what I know.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:47 am

Greg, there does appear to be signups on that page and the total amount of signups have increased over the course of the 24 hours since the registration page went live.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:54 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
Greg, there does appear to be signups on that page and the total amount of signups have increased over the course of the 24 hours since the registration page went live. Well, if that's the case Glenn then all of us can only speculate why or how that happened because there certainly isn't any new announcement being posted. I will say no more about this situation other than it's extremely unusual and unbelievable. Consumers should know better and both parties involved with that site should know better or explain why this would happen before others are paid in full or at least an announced plan is put in place. Very strange and I'll ask around.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:55 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
Greg, there does appear to be signups on that page and the total amount of signups have increased over the course of the 24 hours since the registration page went live. If this is true that speaks to my belief that a lot of their participants do not know what is going on. As Frank said, discussion about that event's failure to pay prize winners and another event's failure to pay prize winners has been grossly under-discussed in the industry outside of a few message boards. This is by far the No. 1 issue confronting the industry at this time and it's my belief that not enough people know about it. The players need to be aware of whatever dangers are out there and I'm not sure enough of them know what has transpired in the past eight months.

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:00 am

I'd guess that only 10-20% of those who play HSFF actually frequent the message boards???

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:12 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
I'd guess that only 10-20% of those who play HSFF actually frequent the message boards??? I think that's a pretty accurate estimate, Mike. It's always viewed as a minority number, regardless of your overall participation level. Unless an attempt has been made to update all of the participants and keep them continually updated with the event's status, then it stands to reason there are a large number of people who are not aware what is going on.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:14 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
Greg, there does appear to be signups on that page and the total amount of signups have increased over the course of the 24 hours since the registration page went live. If this is true that speaks to my belief that a lot of their participants do not know what is going on. As Frank said, discussion about that event's failure to pay prize winners and another event's failure to pay prize winners has been grossly under-discussed in the industry outside of a few message boards. This is by far the No. 1 issue confronting the industry at this time and it's my belief that not enough people know about it. The players need to be aware of whatever dangers are out there and I'm not sure enough of them know what has transpired in the past eight months. [/QUOTE]Tom, there's another dynamic in play that you and Greg are overlooking.

Many players at the WCOFF have money on account. Rather than just let it sit there, uncertain if they'll actually see that money in the form of payment, many may choose to roll it over into contests giving hope to the fact that the contest may move forward and survive another day until funding or a buyer can be found. It's either that and keep your money "solvent" or the contest goes under and the money is lost forever.

I'm not saying that is what's happening, but it's certainly a viable possibility.

Chi_Town_FEW · Post by **Chi_Town_FEW** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:24 am

I would take this as a positive sign. It looks like to me if they can get enough signups in the next 5-10 days the "investors" might be inclined to go forward. If not I think all money will be refunded for these signups. If they are taking signups there has to be a plan. I have not participated over there but I dont think they owners are criminals. Bad, bad, bad, at running a business, but not criminals. They were the biggest game in town so I feel they cant just walk away on what is owed past winners. They will pay if they have the money, they just dont have the money. The only way to get that is to move forward with a plan to repay previous winners, maybe over the course of a few years if the company remains viable and has a product going forward. I feel everyone gets paid only if there is a WCOFF in 2014 and beyond. They will have a plan to pay everyone and be profitable with a lot more transparency going forward. The how a business gone bad comes back. That is what I feel they are trying to do. I am from the outside looking in, no emotional investment on my part. They need to make money to make everyone whole. I hope they can. Good luck all.

P.S. Maybe what Glenn said, but that would not be encouraging because that is not new revenue.

[ August 14, 2011, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Chi_Town_FEW ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:39 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
Greg, there does appear to be signups on that page and the total amount of signups have increased over the course of the 24 hours since the registration page went live. If this is true that speaks to my belief that a lot of their participants do not know what is going on. As Frank said, discussion about that event's failure to pay prize winners and another event's failure to pay prize winners has been grossly under-discussed in the industry outside of a few message boards. This is by far the No. 1 issue confronting the industry at this time and it's my belief that not enough people know about it. The players need to be aware of whatever dangers are out there and I'm not sure enough of them know what has transpired in the past eight months. [/QUOTE]Tom, there's another dynamic in play that you and Greg are overlooking.

Many players at the WCOFF have money on account. Rather than just let it sit there, uncertain if they'll actually see that money in the form of payment, many may choose to roll it over into contests giving hope to the fact that the contest may move forward and survive another day until funding or a buyer can be found. It's either that and keep your money "solvent" or the contest goes under and the money is lost forever.

I'm not saying that is what's happening, but it's certainly a viable possibility. [/QUOTE]Glenn, even if you roll over "owed money" to play, where is the prize money coming from?? So it's owed from a pool where apparently there isn't any money left. I can think of many comparisons, but it seems like borrowing from a bank with no money. Again, I'm not sure what is happening or who is signing up, but I'm just surprised someone turned on the switch yesterday if that's what you're saying because it seemed to be disabled since early July.

As for investors needing to see positive posts on the boards or action in signups, sorry, that's not the answer. Investors need to see the books and know whether they can pay what is owed to players and creditors and how fast it will take to pay that off and turn a profit on the current business. It's that easy. How big is the prize pool with additional expenses, will the original investors sell for a loss on their initial investment and how much profit can be made in Year 1 and future years to pay back your investment.

Unfortunately, as we learned last week, there are multiple owners involved on both sides and nothing gets done quickly that way. It's also late in the game for 2011 and very tough to accomplish everything that was done in the past. This isn't just about generating a profit on the live events, the side events are the ones that bring in new customers and generate profits.

It's incredible that NOTHING is being offered to the players on the status of this event or prize payouts. I know someone cares, so why not just update everyone daily? It makes no sense and gets frustrating by the day for everyone involved. Crazy.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:42 am

Glenn, I understand the rollover aspect. Personally, it seems as if the rollovers are a big reason why the situation has unraveled so badly. But I do understand that a lot of people there have rollovers and are hoping the event will go forward so they can use those rollovers in 2011.

Of course, there are significant issues with that approach as well. Among them:

1. Even if the event goes forward, if all past prize winners haven't been paid you run a significant risk of playing for nothing in 2011.

2. The rollover aspect does not address my concern that many participants are not even aware what's going on and thus have signed up or have begun signing up again - assuming registration was turned back on.

If it was me, I wouldn't want to play for dead money. If I had a rollover, I would demand to be paid in full or else I would participate in another contest or not play at all in 2011.

Bottom line, though, is I find it rather unfathomable that an event would attempt to go forward when it hasn't paid all past prize winners. It doesn't matter to me who the owners are. Until all past prize winners have been paid, I do not believe an event should continue and as a long-time fantasy player there is absolutely no way I would ever participate in an event that hadn't paid past prize winners. Again, I consider that far too risky a proposition. It would involve blind faith and given what has transpired in this industry this year alone with two events not paying prize winners, I would not want to put a single penny of my money on something merely with the hope that I might get paid in the future. I want guarantees.

Seems to me there are only two events in this industry right now who can make that guarantee. Play one or the other or play both but if you are serious about playing a great game and want the security of being paid should you win prize money at season's end, I don't see another legitimate option available.

[ August 14, 2011, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]