Analyzing NFFC Primetime Playoff Format

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:32 pm

An 11 week regular season is a deal breaker for me too, especially if I have other options.

TOMDOG · Post by **TOMDOG** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:37 pm

Victory points works for me as well,but it will truly take some education to the players.
If presented in a straightforward,simple manner,people will join and love it,i think,

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:18 am

An update from the FFPC/FBG league I'm in where I made the playoffs. The team which got the third seed in my league because of having the second-best record was ninth in total points. My team was second in points and is ahead of his by 40 points going into tonight (he has Brees and Colston and I have Sproles). Not trying to rip on his team but that distinction between record and points strikes me as a pretty strong example of a team which had some really good fortune each week in terms of matchups.

[ November 28, 2011, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:27 am

Originally posted by TOMDOG:
Victory points works for me as well,but it will truly take some education to the players.
If presented in a straightforward,simple manner,people will join and love it,i think, For a Main Event, this isn't the easiest example to explain, which is probably why nobody has done it yet. Add that to everything else we do that is considered niche (3RR and KDS), and it makes it tough to grow our Primetime event to the level we'd like. I'm not discounting the possibility of Victory Points, but I'm hearing from a lot of folks that keeping it simple is the best recipe for bringing in folks who want to fly to Las Vegas on the first weekend of the NFL season and win a major grand prize.

I think the one key is we agree on a 13-week regular season. I think we also agree that regular season h2h champs and total points champs need to be rewarded well after Week 13. Then the discussion brings us to how can we keep more teams active during the regular season and how we go about that. Or do we really need to worry about that?

It's a solid discussion and all good suggestions. Keep 'em coming and we'll look at everything. But realize that we can't do every new twist.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:37 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by TOMDOG:
Victory points works for me as well,but it will truly take some education to the players.
If presented in a straightforward,simple manner,people will join and love it,i think, For a Main Event, this isn't the easiest example to explain, which is probably why nobody has done it yet. Add that to everything else we do that is considered niche (3RR and KDS), and it makes it tough to grow our Primetime event to the level we'd like. [/QUOTE]I can totally see your point about the Primetime, but any possibility this is done JUST for the Classic?

After all, most of the "14 teamers" are diehards anyhow. At minimum maybe a satellite or two, or even a live event?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:50 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Greg, I know many of the hardcore players always argue for points above all. But the footballguys, FFPC and WCFF all have/had a larger H2H component and they've attracted big numbers to their contests. It's simple, familiar, and obviously appeals to a lot of players. So let me ask an easy question: Do you really believe all of these formats have grown because of the 11-week regular season and h2h league playoffs or because their grand prizes were the largest? Do you really believe people chose one event over another based on the playoff format or the grand prizes? When WCOFF and FFPC went head-to-head with basically the same rules and on the same weekend in the same city, did more people choose WCOFF over FFPC because of something other than the bigger ($200,000 more) grand prize??

Honestly, I think the grand prize is the attraction to a lot of folks, along with a history of paying on time and in full, a first class draft venue/event, and great customer service. I'm hopeful that if we step up next year in the 12-team format with a much bigger grand prize that folks will look at our contest much closer and join.

I think they can compare:

** 11 week regular season vs. 13 week regular season

** One team can win both the h2h prize and total points prize in a league; we reward domination

** Everyone competes in Weeks 12 and 13, not just four teams

Can we do things better to keep more teams active longer? Sure, and maybe allowing that third seed into the Championship Round would do that. Who wouldn't fight harder for third place with that at stake? That would be worth any monetary prize we could put on that placing. In a 12-team league if you're not fighting for third place with a seat in the finals on the line then there's nothing else we as game operators can do, don't you agree? Would it water down the Championship Round? I don't think so, but it's worth the discussion. It hasn't done that in the NFFC Classic, but I'd be interested in the debate.

I don't agree that the best evaluation of a third seed is h2h record. The data shows that luck had more to do with that than skill. As Tom stated in his FBG league, the second best h2h record was 9th in points...out of 12 teams!!! That team shouldn't make the playoffs. In the Primetime, 16 of 30 second best h2h records are lower than third in points and that format would have changed 13 of 30 playoff formats (kicking out the third best team in each league in points).

Anyway, it's all a good discussion and worthy of us evaluating things for 2012. We want to be bigger than ever and provide the very best league format. The goal is to improve every aspect of our game if at all possible while still being innovative with our game. Thanks for any help you can give there.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:57 am

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by TOMDOG:
Victory points works for me as well,but it will truly take some education to the players.
If presented in a straightforward,simple manner,people will join and love it,i think, For a Main Event, this isn't the easiest example to explain, which is probably why nobody has done it yet. Add that to everything else we do that is considered niche (3RR and KDS), and it makes it tough to grow our Primetime event to the level we'd like. [/QUOTE]I can totally see your point about the Primetime, but any possibility this is done JUST for the Classic?

After all, most of the "14 teamers" are diehards anyhow. At minimum maybe a satellite or two, or even a live event? [/QUOTE]In our current format, h2h is being rewarded one way and I don't see any discussion about teams "luckily" getting that first place money. Let's look at the data again after Week 13 and see how many teams would have "luckily" won their h2h league title, but so far the data shows those teams being high in league points, too. The Victory Points format seems to be needed when you are rewarding at least two h2h places, correct?

I'm not against the idea, but again it seems to be more needed when multiple h2h records are rewarded or seeded. For us, that would be the Ultimate League or the Auction Leagues, right?

I'm not against the idea, but I think it would have to be in a format that rewards multiple teams with h2h records to have relevance. Thoughts?

alanr824 · Post by **alanr824** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:12 am

I will be going into my last week of my classic league, tied for 1st place in H2H with multiple teams at 8-4. I started the season off 0-3.... won 8 out of the last 9 and have been the best team in my league during those 9 weeks, with a great chance to win the championship, but wait, I have no chance of finishing in the money or making any playoffs, due to my bad start..... THAT being said, I believe the Classic and Auction setup are best to stay the same. Change the Primetime, if any setup at all and I would be fine with everything the same next year. It works, don't change it. My above scenario could have easily improved by getting off to a better start..

Jersey Dawg · Post by **Jersey Dawg** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:25 am

After reading through all of this, I have come to the conclusion that the 13 week season is the best format. However, there seems to be a valid reason to have some sort of playoff for the majoriy of the league money, perhaps with three teams in the chase, possibly four.

As the Franchise mentioned, some sort of immediate payout to the best record and the most points at the conclusion of week 13. Then a race to see who wins the rest of the league money in weeks 14-16. I have no reason not to include all 3 or 4 teams in the chase for $100K either. The more, the merrier.

Pete

Money · Post by **Money** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:29 am

Originally posted by Al R G:
I will be going into my last week of my classic league, tied for 1st place in H2H with multiple teams at 8-4. I started the season off 0-3.... won 8 out of the last 9 and have been the best team in my league during those 9 weeks, with a great chance to win the championship, but wait, I have no chance of finishing in the money or making any playoffs, due to my bad start..... THAT being said, I believe the Classic and Auction setup are best to stay the same. Change the Primetime, if any setup at all and I would be fine with everything the same next year. It works, don't change it. My above scenario could have easily improved by getting off to a better start.. Thats very well stated, I agree. There are a lot of reasons for teams getting off to slow starts and then coming into their own in the last 8 or nine weeks.

The two most prevalent reasons that come to mind are Cam Newton or a Demarco Murray infusion.