Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Greg, why don't you like all-play to determine third place? 3rd place all play could be the 5th or 6th best points team just like h2h. [/QUOTE]Exactly my point. [/QUOTE]If this is OK, then why just 3? Why not 5? 6? 8? playoff teams?
You've avoided this question twice before.
Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
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ultimatefs
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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ultimatefs
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Greg, why don't you like all-play to determine third place? 3rd place all play could be the 5th or 6th best points team just like h2h. [/QUOTE]Exactly my point, which means H2H consistency is worth nothing in this league. [/QUOTE]See me post above and don't tell this to RT!!
He's being well rewarded so far for being one thing, consistency.
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Greg, why don't you like all-play to determine third place? 3rd place all play could be the 5th or 6th best points team just like h2h. [/QUOTE]Exactly my point, which means H2H consistency is worth nothing in this league. [/QUOTE]See me post above and don't tell this to RT!!
He's being well rewarded so far for being one thing, consistency.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
What exactly am I avoiding John?
On your first question above you're asking me to crunch data - I don't feel like it, crunch it yourself and show me the results.
On your second, over how many teams should make the playoffs I've answered that at least 5 times. What aren't you clear about?
On your first question above you're asking me to crunch data - I don't feel like it, crunch it yourself and show me the results.
On your second, over how many teams should make the playoffs I've answered that at least 5 times. What aren't you clear about?
Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Greg, why don't you like all-play to determine third place? 3rd place all play could be the 5th or 6th best points team just like h2h. [/QUOTE]Exactly my point, which means H2H consistency is worth nothing in this league. [/QUOTE]See me post above and don't tell this to RT!!
He's being well rewarded so far for being one thing, consistency. [/QUOTE]I'm not sure what this means ... but if it means RT could make the playoffs only because of a good h2h record, then he is among that 10% component of which I speak above.
A good exercise would be to see how many teams that make the natl championship are not among the top two point scorers in their league.
I'm guessing its around 10%, but whatever number that is, that is exactly the weighting that h2h gets in this league. Which goes back to my argument that this league is NOWHERE NEAR balanced between h2h and points.
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Greg, why don't you like all-play to determine third place? 3rd place all play could be the 5th or 6th best points team just like h2h. [/QUOTE]Exactly my point, which means H2H consistency is worth nothing in this league. [/QUOTE]See me post above and don't tell this to RT!!
He's being well rewarded so far for being one thing, consistency. [/QUOTE]I'm not sure what this means ... but if it means RT could make the playoffs only because of a good h2h record, then he is among that 10% component of which I speak above.
A good exercise would be to see how many teams that make the natl championship are not among the top two point scorers in their league.
I'm guessing its around 10%, but whatever number that is, that is exactly the weighting that h2h gets in this league. Which goes back to my argument that this league is NOWHERE NEAR balanced between h2h and points.
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ultimatefs
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
What exactly am I avoiding John?
On your first question above you're asking me to crunch data - I don't feel like it, crunch it yourself and show me the results.
On your second, over how many teams should make the playoffs I've answered that at least 5 times. What aren't you clear about? I show data all the time. You post myths with no data and then don't "feel like it" when challenged.
You said 3. WHY? I've asked WHY and you have not answered that. If the 6th best points can get in under all-play, why not have 6 playoff teams then? WHY 3?
What exactly am I avoiding John?
On your first question above you're asking me to crunch data - I don't feel like it, crunch it yourself and show me the results.
On your second, over how many teams should make the playoffs I've answered that at least 5 times. What aren't you clear about? I show data all the time. You post myths with no data and then don't "feel like it" when challenged.
You said 3. WHY? I've asked WHY and you have not answered that. If the 6th best points can get in under all-play, why not have 6 playoff teams then? WHY 3?
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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ultimatefs
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- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
A good exercise would be to see how many teams that make the natl championship are not among the top two point scorers in their league. The answer is 8. It's in the thread from a few days ago.
And it's in those 8 leagues that the 2nd best points should play for the league championship also. MAINLY because #1 and #2 points in those leagues are so close!! (3 of 8 were less than 5 pts)
I've gotta run... talk to you later..
A good exercise would be to see how many teams that make the natl championship are not among the top two point scorers in their league. The answer is 8. It's in the thread from a few days ago.
And it's in those 8 leagues that the 2nd best points should play for the league championship also. MAINLY because #1 and #2 points in those leagues are so close!! (3 of 8 were less than 5 pts)
I've gotta run... talk to you later..
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
Originally posted by JohnZ:
I show data all the time. You post myths with no data and then don't "feel like it" when challenged.
You said 3. WHY? I've asked WHY and you have not answered that. If the 6th best points can get in under all-play, why not have 6 playoff teams then? WHY 3? I don't post myths, I've posted suggestions based on ideology. The facts you seek are relevant to what is, not my opinion of what should be.
Why do I think 3 teams should make the playoffs John? Here it is for at least the 5th time... the NFL allows 37.5% of teams into the playoffs. This if fantasy football based on the NFL ... 37.5% of our 14-team leagues equals 5.25 teams. I think three, four or five teams would be better than two. Two is too restrictive IMO. Why? Becasue I think there are quality teams which are close after 13 weeks that could prove better over the whole season, and I also think keeping more teams involved, within reason, is better for the contest.
If you support two teams, I could ask you a similarly arbitrary question - why two teams? Why not just one team ... or why not just the top 14 teams overall, or the top 10?
Please print this post out so I don't have to answer it in yet another thread.
[ November 14, 2008, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
I show data all the time. You post myths with no data and then don't "feel like it" when challenged.
You said 3. WHY? I've asked WHY and you have not answered that. If the 6th best points can get in under all-play, why not have 6 playoff teams then? WHY 3? I don't post myths, I've posted suggestions based on ideology. The facts you seek are relevant to what is, not my opinion of what should be.
Why do I think 3 teams should make the playoffs John? Here it is for at least the 5th time... the NFL allows 37.5% of teams into the playoffs. This if fantasy football based on the NFL ... 37.5% of our 14-team leagues equals 5.25 teams. I think three, four or five teams would be better than two. Two is too restrictive IMO. Why? Becasue I think there are quality teams which are close after 13 weeks that could prove better over the whole season, and I also think keeping more teams involved, within reason, is better for the contest.
If you support two teams, I could ask you a similarly arbitrary question - why two teams? Why not just one team ... or why not just the top 14 teams overall, or the top 10?
Please print this post out so I don't have to answer it in yet another thread.
[ November 14, 2008, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
A good exercise would be to see how many teams that make the natl championship are not among the top two point scorers in their league. The answer is 8. It's in the thread from a few days ago.
And it's in those 8 leagues that the 2nd best points should play for the league championship also. MAINLY because #1 and #2 points in those leagues are so close!! (3 of 8 were less than 5 pts)
I've gotta run... talk to you later.. [/QUOTE]Excellent. So 8 of 44 teams make the natl championship because of their record. Which means that 36 of 44 make it based on points.
Which means that, as of this moment, this league is weighted as follows:
82% points
18% h2h record
And for the natl championship it is:
100% points
0% h2h
As for prize money, 58% of prizes are for league winners and 42% for overall winners, so the total weighting of NFFC prize money is as follows:
10.5% based on H2H record
89.5% based on Points Scored
Conclusion: the NFFC is 90% a total points league.
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
A good exercise would be to see how many teams that make the natl championship are not among the top two point scorers in their league. The answer is 8. It's in the thread from a few days ago.
And it's in those 8 leagues that the 2nd best points should play for the league championship also. MAINLY because #1 and #2 points in those leagues are so close!! (3 of 8 were less than 5 pts)
I've gotta run... talk to you later.. [/QUOTE]Excellent. So 8 of 44 teams make the natl championship because of their record. Which means that 36 of 44 make it based on points.
Which means that, as of this moment, this league is weighted as follows:
82% points
18% h2h record
And for the natl championship it is:
100% points
0% h2h
As for prize money, 58% of prizes are for league winners and 42% for overall winners, so the total weighting of NFFC prize money is as follows:
10.5% based on H2H record
89.5% based on Points Scored
Conclusion: the NFFC is 90% a total points league.
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Captain Hook
- Posts: 1557
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eddiejag:
[qb] Yep, total points is overrated, even our fearless founder has fallen into their trap, I fear. I don't think Greg ever will do away with H2H, but his posts seem to indicate he's fallen under their "most points is the best indicator" spell.The only "spell" I've fallen under is the Corona Spell. That would be it.
I was accused of giving too much emphasis to h2h from the very beginning, but continue to give equal priority to h2h and total points when it comes to the top league prize. The data through Week 10 shows many teams still in the fight for second and third place league money under our current system and honestly I don't see anything that screams out for a change. The second best h2h record is not necessarily the third best team in that league (or even a Top 5 team in many cases) and I know Darryl won't be happy but after looking through all 43 main event leagues I don't see anything that says "add a third place league tie-breaker."
We have h2h and total points. Lumpy won't like me either, but I don't think adding all-play as a third place determiner is the answer either. So I'm not under any spell other than I think our game is pretty solid right now and I'll need more convincing before changing what we have now. [/QUOTE]Greg -
1) Daryl is not saying we need a third place tie-breaker - he is suggesting the leagues would be more fun and there would be more competition IF there were TWO teams that qualified to play in a 3rd place game.
2) And that same proposal - next best points vs next best H2H would help satisfy KJ and others who think that there should be more emphasis on H2H......AND if that 3rd place game was Only Week 14 then the 3rd place teams in each league could be added to the Championship round after EARNING their way in (and using their week 14 points and regular season average like all the 1st and 2nd place teams).
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eddiejag:
[qb] Yep, total points is overrated, even our fearless founder has fallen into their trap, I fear. I don't think Greg ever will do away with H2H, but his posts seem to indicate he's fallen under their "most points is the best indicator" spell.The only "spell" I've fallen under is the Corona Spell. That would be it.
I was accused of giving too much emphasis to h2h from the very beginning, but continue to give equal priority to h2h and total points when it comes to the top league prize. The data through Week 10 shows many teams still in the fight for second and third place league money under our current system and honestly I don't see anything that screams out for a change. The second best h2h record is not necessarily the third best team in that league (or even a Top 5 team in many cases) and I know Darryl won't be happy but after looking through all 43 main event leagues I don't see anything that says "add a third place league tie-breaker."
We have h2h and total points. Lumpy won't like me either, but I don't think adding all-play as a third place determiner is the answer either. So I'm not under any spell other than I think our game is pretty solid right now and I'll need more convincing before changing what we have now. [/QUOTE]Greg -
1) Daryl is not saying we need a third place tie-breaker - he is suggesting the leagues would be more fun and there would be more competition IF there were TWO teams that qualified to play in a 3rd place game.
2) And that same proposal - next best points vs next best H2H would help satisfy KJ and others who think that there should be more emphasis on H2H......AND if that 3rd place game was Only Week 14 then the 3rd place teams in each league could be added to the Championship round after EARNING their way in (and using their week 14 points and regular season average like all the 1st and 2nd place teams).
Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?
Perry, I don't care all that much about a playoff for third place. My issues are that 1) more teams belong in the Natl Championship; and 2) total points accounts for way too much of the NFFC on all fronts.
I like the auction setup, although I don't think we need to go six deep for the main event.
I like the auction setup, although I don't think we need to go six deep for the main event.